How long before the Rockets move on from Jalen Green

[jasonxxx102]

You just said that a 56 minute sample size was not enough time to form an opinion and then you formed an opinion on basically the same sample size.
Delete the thread.
3 games is not enough time to form an opinion according to Junior here.

**asks for facts

**ignores facts that don't align with his narrative

If the starting lineup net rating is good, but Jalen is still negative, what do you think that says?

It tells me that Jalen Green plays a lot of minutes with a bench that is pretty terrible right now.
You should probably think before you post.
For a change.

Jalen has played all but 19 possessions with at least 1 of FVV, Jabari, Sengun.

Try again

[jasonxxx102]

I don't understand why some fans need to constantly excuse and deflect from bad play.

Jalen is playing bad, he's been playing bad. You can give 500 million excuses why but that doesn't take away from that fact.

The question is not whether he's been bad or not (he objectively has), it's whether you think there's something meaningful he can improve on and whether he's going to be worth paying whatever insane amount of money he's going to want in 2 years

[JonFromVA]

The G league coaches are not as good as the college coaches. The salary alone reflects that. G league is bottom of the barrel. Sure they have “nba resources” but those pale in comparison with the major programs.

NCAA owns G League and always will

I'm not sure what the G-League Excite or whatever they call the team for the Jalen Green's of the world have to offer, but I do believe the Cleveland Charge have access to the same facilities the Cavaliers use (and may even inherit the current training building all for themselves) all while being coached by a full staff led by Mike Gerrity who's on track to be an NBA head coach someday.

Meanwhile they are sharing systems between the Charge and the Cavs with the hope that players will be able to more seamlessly move from the G-League to the pros.

The more NBA teams have invested in the G-League, the better it's going to get and if the stigma ever goes away, maybe we'll see more first round picks playing in the g-league. Keep an eye on Emoni Bates, he'll be a great test of whether the G-League with the right structure can help a young/raw player develop the right habits.

NBA teams definitely have an incentive to work closely with their affiliated G-League teams and develop their players, but the Ignite is a different situation.

Which just means the Ignite is the problem. The obvious way to fix that is to remove restrictions on draft age, but there are other possibilities including investing more in making sure the Ignite is developing players more so than showcasing them.

[madmaxmedia]

I'm not sure what the G-League Excite or whatever they call the team for the Jalen Green's of the world have to offer, but I do believe the Cleveland Charge have access to the same facilities the Cavaliers use (and may even inherit the current training building all for themselves) all while being coached by a full staff led by Mike Gerrity who's on track to be an NBA head coach someday.

Meanwhile they are sharing systems between the Charge and the Cavs with the hope that players will be able to more seamlessly move from the G-League to the pros.

The more NBA teams have invested in the G-League, the better it's going to get and if the stigma ever goes away, maybe we'll see more first round picks playing in the g-league. Keep an eye on Emoni Bates, he'll be a great test of whether the G-League with the right structure can help a young/raw player develop the right habits.

NBA teams definitely have an incentive to work closely with their affiliated G-League teams and develop their players, but the Ignite is a different situation.

Which just means the Ignite is the problem. The obvious way to fix that is to remove restrictions on draft age, but there are other possibilities including investing more in making sure the Ignite is developing players more so than showcasing them.

Yeah, I'm not too familiar with the organization of the Ignite. At a surface level the general goal behind the team seems good. All the other G League teams are basically farm teams for their respective NBA franchises, which is a very good thing as teams can be directly involved in player development. I think the Ignite was formed to be a non-college option for players who weren't yet draft-eligible, but there can be some inherent conflicts between player development, maintaining or increasing a player's draft profile, etc. If a player is a great individual scorer but lacks in other areas, you want to help the player develop but also still want to showcase what he's good at to not sink his draft position. These guys aren't coming to the Ignite to sit on a bench and learn, they are there to hopefully earn some money and bide their time to when they are draft eligible.

I agree that removing restrictions on draft age is good idea. I'm sure they've studied the MLB farm system, a better player development system would help a lot. I don't know all the economics of MLB fam teams, how much revenue they are able to generate to offset costs, etc. I'm sure they run at a loss overall, but still pull in a decent chunk of revenue. Could that happen for NBA developmental teams? I don't know.

[Jailblazers7]

I’d like to give him a full season with Ime who might be able to ego check him & get him to build better habits. Rockets were a total mess last year & they need a culture rebuild.

[jasonxxx102]

Can we get a vibe check on Jalen?

He's having his worst season so far. Shooting a hilarious 40/33/81. Still one of the worst defensive players in the league, and a -14 on/off split.

Not only is he providing nothing to this Rockets team that's surprisingly average, he's making them worse

[azcatz11]

Can we get a vibe check on Jalen?

He's having his worst season so far. Shooting a hilarious 40/33/81. Still one of the worst defensive players in the league, and a -14 on/off split.

Not only is he providing nothing to this Rockets team that's surprisingly average, he's making them worse

Bill Simmons suggested a deal structured around Green for Murray (Hawks)

[jasonxxx102]

Can we get a vibe check on Jalen?

He's having his worst season so far. Shooting a hilarious 40/33/81. Still one of the worst defensive players in the league, and a -14 on/off split.

Not only is he providing nothing to this Rockets team that's surprisingly average, he's making them worse

Bill Simmons suggested a deal structured around Green for Murray (Hawks)

That would be amazing for the Rockets but can't imagine why the Hawks would even consider.

Jalen/Trae would, quite literally, be the worst defensive backcourt in NBA history

[QingJames]

Can we get a vibe check on Jalen?

He's having his worst season so far. Shooting a hilarious 40/33/81. Still one of the worst defensive players in the league, and a -14 on/off split.

Not only is he providing nothing to this Rockets team that's surprisingly average, he's making them worse

He’s truly terrible. I’m happy for Rockets fans that their team is out of the swamp and made some good offseason acquisitions, but with so many good players in the 2021 draft that Green pick is one of the worst busts of all time. I’m not sure he’s even serviceable in a Lou Williams microwave scorer role for a decent team.

Again, drafting a combo guard with terrible defense in the lottery is one of the worst blunders teams can make in the modern era. These guys just do not impact winning, even at their 99th percentile development outcomes.

[BDM22]

Can we get a vibe check on Jalen?

He's having his worst season so far. Shooting a hilarious 40/33/81. Still one of the worst defensive players in the league, and a -14 on/off split.

Not only is he providing nothing to this Rockets team that's surprisingly average, he's making them worse

He’s truly terrible. I’m happy for Rockets fans that their team is out of the swamp and made some good offseason acquisitions, but with so many good players in the 2021 draft that Green pick is one of the worst busts of all time. I’m not sure he’s even serviceable in a Lou Williams microwave scorer role for a decent team.

Again, drafting a combo guard with terrible defense in the lottery is one of the worst blunders teams can make in the modern era. These guys just do not impact winning, even at their 99th percentile development outcomes.

He's still 21 and obviously a talented player. Who knows if he ever puts it together, but hard to say "one of the worst busts of all time" at 21 years old. This isn't Anthony Bennett, who was clearly not an NBA player from day 1. Green has a very valuable skill, he's just erratic right now.

It is a bit weird that so many of these G-league Ignite guys come into the league looking unprepared.

You could argue that they should have taken Mobley or whatever, but outside of that you're talking pure 20/20 hindsight. Green was a consensus top-3 pick and looked at as EASILY the best scorer in the draft.

[QingJames]

Can we get a vibe check on Jalen?

He's having his worst season so far. Shooting a hilarious 40/33/81. Still one of the worst defensive players in the league, and a -14 on/off split.

Not only is he providing nothing to this Rockets team that's surprisingly average, he's making them worse

He’s truly terrible. I’m happy for Rockets fans that their team is out of the swamp and made some good offseason acquisitions, but with so many good players in the 2021 draft that Green pick is one of the worst busts of all time. I’m not sure he’s even serviceable in a Lou Williams microwave scorer role for a decent team.

Again, drafting a combo guard with terrible defense in the lottery is one of the worst blunders teams can make in the modern era. These guys just do not impact winning, even at their 99th percentile development outcomes.

He's still 21 and obviously a talented player. Who knows if he ever puts it together, but hard to say "one of the worst busts of all time" at 21 years old. This isn't Anthony Bennett, who was clearly not an NBA player from day 1. Green has a very valuable skill, he's just erratic right now.

It is a bit weird that so many of these G-league Ignite guys come into the league looking unprepared.

You could argue that they should have taken Mobley or whatever, but outside of that you're talking pure 20/20 hindsight. Green was a consensus top-3 pick and looked at as EASILY the best scorer in the draft.

What is his very valuable skill? Don’t say scoring, because plenty of guys in the league can put up good scoring numbers on terrible efficiency.

He’s athletic and very explosive. This convinces people that he has a very high ceiling, when in fact he has almost no NBA-calibre basketball skills. I will say the only skill I think he actually has at an elite level is dribble separation ability, but obviously he is not capable (yet) of consistently turning this into an advantage on the court.

I think it’s very fair to say he’s one of the worst busts of all time given how stacked his draft class is. Especially given the 2 guys drafted immediately after him. Whereas with Bennett, it’s not as though the top 10 were filled with great players. The best guy in the top 10 that year turned out probably to be McCollum, another nodefense guard who doesn’t impact winning much.

[timO]

extension elegible this summer

i think they dont extend him, he needs a mip year next one

[QingJames]

You could argue that they should have taken Mobley or whatever, but outside of that you're talking pure 20/20 hindsight. Green was a consensus top-3 pick and looked at as EASILY the best scorer in the draft.

To add on to this - that doesn’t mean much to me. Front offices routinely prioritize flashy scoring combo guards with athleticism in the draft and this proves over and over again to be a mistake. The consensus was obviously wrong at the time and remains obviously wrong now. AT BEST Green becomes a Booker level player. A very good outcome for him would be to be a Beal or Lavine level player - guys who do not impact winning and will take you nowhere as the best guy on your team.

The fact that idiot draft analysts who can’t recognize that combo guards rarely lead to winning does not make the drafting of Green over Mobley and Barnes any less terrible. It was a bad pick in the moment and it remains a bad pick in hindsight.

[johanliebert]

Some of you are just miserable. Imagine honing in on one player and creating narratives

[johanliebert]

He’s truly terrible. I’m happy for Rockets fans that their team is out of the swamp and made some good offseason acquisitions, but with so many good players in the 2021 draft that Green pick is one of the worst busts of all time. I’m not sure he’s even serviceable in a Lou Williams microwave scorer role for a decent team.

Again, drafting a combo guard with terrible defense in the lottery is one of the worst blunders teams can make in the modern era. These guys just do not impact winning, even at their 99th percentile development outcomes.

He's still 21 and obviously a talented player. Who knows if he ever puts it together, but hard to say "one of the worst busts of all time" at 21 years old. This isn't Anthony Bennett, who was clearly not an NBA player from day 1. Green has a very valuable skill, he's just erratic right now.

It is a bit weird that so many of these G-league Ignite guys come into the league looking unprepared.

You could argue that they should have taken Mobley or whatever, but outside of that you're talking pure 20/20 hindsight. Green was a consensus top-3 pick and looked at as EASILY the best scorer in the draft.

What is his very valuable skill? Don’t say scoring, because plenty of guys in the league can put up good scoring numbers on terrible efficiency.

He’s athletic and very explosive. This convinces people that he has a very high ceiling, when in fact he has almost no NBA-calibre basketball skills. I will say the only skill I think he actually has at an elite level is dribble separation ability, but obviously he is not capable (yet) of consistently turning this into an advantage on the court.

I think it’s very fair to say he’s one of the worst busts of all time given how stacked his draft class is. Especially given the 2 guys drafted immediately after him. Whereas with Bennett, it’s not as though the top 10 were filled with great players. The best guy in the top 10 that year turned out probably to be McCollum, another nodefense guard who doesn’t impact winning much.

Another miserable poster who will pray Green fails so he can boast about his prediction.

[Inigo Montoya]

What is Green's value at this point? What would the Rockets want for him in return?

[art_tatum]

Can we get a vibe check on Jalen?

He's having his worst season so far. Shooting a hilarious 40/33/81. Still one of the worst defensive players in the league, and a -14 on/off split.

Not only is he providing nothing to this Rockets team that's surprisingly average, he's making them worse

He’s truly terrible. I’m happy for Rockets fans that their team is out of the swamp and made some good offseason acquisitions, but with so many good players in the 2021 draft that Green pick is one of the worst busts of all time. I’m not sure he’s even serviceable in a Lou Williams microwave scorer role for a decent team.

Again, drafting a combo guard with terrible defense in the lottery is one of the worst blunders teams can make in the modern era. These guys just do not impact winning, even at their 99th percentile development outcomes.

He's still 21 and obviously a talented player. Who knows if he ever puts it together, but hard to say "one of the worst busts of all time" at 21 years old. This isn't Anthony Bennett, who was clearly not an NBA player from day 1. Green has a very valuable skill, he's just erratic right now.

It is a bit weird that so many of these G-league Ignite guys come into the league looking unprepared.

You could argue that they should have taken Mobley or whatever, but outside of that you're talking pure 20/20 hindsight. Green was a consensus top-3 pick and looked at as EASILY the best scorer in the draft.

I wonder if it's the g league or if it's about the kind of players who pick the gleague, for money etc. that causes this pattern. Or both I guess

[Frankie]

Can we at least let Udoka and his coaching staff coach him for a little longer than 3 months before we start calling crazy stuff like 'one of the worst busts of all time'.

[jokeboy86]

He may have to be moved to another team just so he could possibly get a chance to start fresh. The focus for the Rockets offensively should be Segun(which it is) and then Smith instead of Green. Green takes the second most shot attempts on the team and I bet he probably in some ways still feels that he's the face of the franchise based off where he was taken in the draft. But what complicated things in my mind for that team was the Rockets getting VanVleet, Brooks, and then Udoka. You don't do that if you're still tanking for 2 or more years and just waiting to see how your lottery picks develop. I think their goal with Udoka is at minimum play-in team from this point on.

I still stand by Green's development is all out of wack which I've noticed has been the case for a lot of the players who've chosen to skip the one year in college and do something else and this goes back all the way to Brandon Jennings. LaMelo Ball seems to be the exception but he's not really an efficient offensive player either.

[BDM22]

You could argue that they should have taken Mobley or whatever, but outside of that you're talking pure 20/20 hindsight. Green was a consensus top-3 pick and looked at as EASILY the best scorer in the draft.

To add on to this - that doesn’t mean much to me. Front offices routinely prioritize flashy scoring combo guards with athleticism in the draft and this proves over and over again to be a mistake. The consensus was obviously wrong at the time and remains obviously wrong now. AT BEST Green becomes a Booker level player. A very good outcome for him would be to be a Beal or Lavine level player - guys who do not impact winning and will take you nowhere as the best guy on your team.

The fact that idiot draft analysts who can’t recognize that combo guards rarely lead to winning does not make the drafting of Green over Mobley and Barnes any less terrible. It was a bad pick in the moment and it remains a bad pick in hindsight.

It's the same skillset that Ant Edwards had on draft night and now he's the best player on a team with the best record in the west. Uber athletic but inefficient volume scorers.

Development trajectory is a whole other ball game that is quite difficult to project, but GM's will still take a chance on landing that next unstoppable guard/wing scorer.