The Defense thread 2024 (Final DPOY vote)

Moderators: Harry Garris, ken6199, Dirk, bisme37, KingDavid, bwgood77, zimpy27, cupcakesnake, Domejandro, infinite11285

Who's your 2024 DPOY

Rudy Gobert
15
50%
Victor Wembanyama
10
33%
Bam Adebayo
0
No votes
Alex Caruso
1
3%
Jalen Suggs
0
No votes
Anthony Davis
0
No votes
Herb Jones
2
7%
Derrick White
2
7%
Isaiah Hartenstein
0
No votes
Other (List them but remember than Isaac, Draymond, OG etc. are not eligible!)
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 30

GeorgeSears
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,181
And1: 4,339
Joined: Feb 10, 2021
 

Re: The Defense thread 2024 (currently voting all-D BIGS) 

Post#641 » by GeorgeSears » Wed Mar 27, 2024 4:44 am

basketballRob wrote:Isaac has been the best player on the court over the last 10 games or so.

Read on Twitter
?t=ziuTDo5eu_ta-a_PW9eblg&s=19

I'm glad to see him recovered and playing well.

The first Isaac game I saw was about 4 years against the Mavericks. I recall him shutting down Porzingis completely and finishing with something like 5 blocks and 4 steals. I concluded that he was going to be the best defensive player in the league. Unfortunately, a torn ACL took him out for 2 years and it's taken him a while to recover. But it looks like he's rounding into form.

I lowkey wanted the Nuggets to try and trade for him cheap in the hopes that the Magic would think he was washed up.
firedavidkahn
Senior
Posts: 575
And1: 892
Joined: Jul 21, 2017

Re: The Defense thread 2024 (currently voting all-D BIGS) 

Post#642 » by firedavidkahn » Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:46 pm

Well, well, well.

Seems like isolating Rudy isn't going to work. He now has teammates he can trust on defense next to him. Wolves fans have been predicting this since the beginning of the season. Glad to finally see the stats back it up

Read on Twitter
?t=KnSmR1ut-O4akmk_Om1OZA&s=19
ChipotleWest
Starter
Posts: 2,276
And1: 1,954
Joined: Jul 21, 2012
 

Re: The Defense thread 2024 (currently voting all-D BIGS) 

Post#643 » by ChipotleWest » Thu Mar 28, 2024 6:35 pm

No love for Dereck Lively?
User avatar
Jamaaliver
Forum Mod - Hawks
Forum Mod - Hawks
Posts: 37,571
And1: 14,500
Joined: Sep 22, 2005
Location: Officially a citizen of the World...
Contact:
     

Re: The Defense thread 2024 (currently voting all-D BIGS) 

Post#644 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Mar 29, 2024 3:21 am

Read on Twitter
User avatar
cupcakesnake
Senior Mod- WNBA
Senior Mod- WNBA
Posts: 11,915
And1: 24,403
Joined: Jul 21, 2016
 

Re: The Defense thread 2024 (currently voting all-D BIGS) 

Post#645 » by cupcakesnake » Fri Mar 29, 2024 8:40 pm

ChipotleWest wrote:No love for Dereck Lively?


Why don't you tell us about him?

I don't know where I'd rank him amongst defensive bigs. He's a part time starter, a rookie, playing under 20mpg since the Gafford trade. He has all the tools to become an elite defender now.

Who do you trust more defensively, Gafford or Lively (or still just Kleber, haha). On/off and rim protection numbers like Gafford quite a bit more, but I'm curious to hear from Mavs fans.
"Being in my home. I was watching pokemon for 5 hours."

Co-hosting with Harry Garris at The Underhand Freethrow Podcast
User avatar
cupcakesnake
Senior Mod- WNBA
Senior Mod- WNBA
Posts: 11,915
And1: 24,403
Joined: Jul 21, 2016
 

Re: The Defense thread 2024 (currently voting all-D BIGS) 

Post#646 » by cupcakesnake » Fri Mar 29, 2024 8:45 pm

This won't be the all-NBA team because of minutes and games played... but if I was putting together a lineup to get a single stop (or multiple stops, or hold a team of aliens under 100) with my life on the line, I'd go:

Alex Caruso
Herb Jones
OG Anunoby
Jonathan Isaac
Rudy Gobert

(I would also trust my life to: Draymond, Bam, Jaden McDaniels, and maybe Wemby. Swap in any of those).
"Being in my home. I was watching pokemon for 5 hours."

Co-hosting with Harry Garris at The Underhand Freethrow Podcast
Klomp
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 63,546
And1: 17,964
Joined: Jul 08, 2005
Contact:
   

Re: The Defense thread 2024 (currently voting all-D BIGS) 

Post#647 » by Klomp » Sat Mar 30, 2024 1:10 am

Read on Twitter
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.

Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
Klomp
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 63,546
And1: 17,964
Joined: Jul 08, 2005
Contact:
   

Re: The Defense thread 2024 (currently voting all-D BIGS) 

Post#648 » by Klomp » Sat Mar 30, 2024 4:10 am

Team stat, but...

Read on Twitter
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.

Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
The Master
Rookie
Posts: 1,075
And1: 1,587
Joined: Dec 30, 2016

Re: The Defense thread 2024 (currently voting all-D BIGS) 

Post#649 » by The Master » Sat Mar 30, 2024 2:37 pm

Surprised AD got so many votes in a poll, he's good-definitely not great in the full season, great example how reputation impacts perception of defense.

Wembanyama (best raw numbers), Gobert (best D numbers), Isaac (best advanced numbers), Adebayo (most versatile one) would be my choices - I don't know if Isaac is eligible, so I'd go with Porzingis/Holmgren (great rim protectors on great teams defensively), but KP isn't eligible as well, isn't he?

This new generation of defensive players (Wemby, Chet, Thompsons) can be really a peak of defensive impact in this new offensive era.
User avatar
cupcakesnake
Senior Mod- WNBA
Senior Mod- WNBA
Posts: 11,915
And1: 24,403
Joined: Jul 21, 2016
 

Re: The Defense thread 2024 (currently voting all-D BIGS) 

Post#650 » by cupcakesnake » Sat Mar 30, 2024 5:48 pm

The Master wrote:Surprised AD got so many votes in a poll, he's good-definitely not great in the full season, great example how reputation impacts perception of defense.

Wembanyama (best raw numbers), Gobert (best D numbers), Isaac (best advanced numbers), Adebayo (most versatile one) would be my choices - I don't know if Isaac is eligible, so I'd go with Porzingis/Holmgren (great rim protectors on great teams defensively), but KP isn't eligible as well, isn't he?

This new generation of defensive players (Wemby, Chet, Thompsons) can be really a peak of defensive impact in this new offensive era.


I don't really know what to do with AD either. He's had some incredible defensive games this year, and showed that at his best he's one of the best. But there aren't too many positive indicators that AD is having that elite impact night to night. Any number that weighs his blocks and rebounds highly will like him, but the on/off is bad. The Lakers survive the non-AD minutes despite having no consistent backup for him (it's been Vando, Wood, Hayes, Lebron playing center at different times over the year). They're firmly a mediocre defensive team with and without Anthony Davis, and the Lakers were expected to be a strong defensive team this year.

We know he's good, but there's reason to doubt he's always out there killing it.
"Being in my home. I was watching pokemon for 5 hours."

Co-hosting with Harry Garris at The Underhand Freethrow Podcast
The Master
Rookie
Posts: 1,075
And1: 1,587
Joined: Dec 30, 2016

Re: The Defense thread 2024 (currently voting all-D BIGS) 

Post#651 » by The Master » Sat Mar 30, 2024 8:28 pm

cupcakesnake wrote:I don't really know what to do with AD either. He's had some incredible defensive games this year, and showed that at his best he's one of the best. But there aren't too many positive indicators that AD is having that elite impact night to night. Any number that weighs his blocks and rebounds highly will like him, but the on/off is bad. The Lakers survive the non-AD minutes despite having no consistent backup for him (it's been Vando, Wood, Hayes, Lebron playing center at different times over the year). They're firmly a mediocre defensive team with and without Anthony Davis, and the Lakers were expected to be a strong defensive team this year.

We know he's good, but there's reason to doubt he's always out there killing it.

Yeah, under very similar circumstances roster- and coaching-wise, his defensive metrics both individually (DFG%) and in terms of Lakers' performance defensively are simply worse than a year ago, hard to give him benefit of a doubt, especially considering Lakers fighting for the play-in seeding. One of the reasons that they have underperformed - is their defensive performance. But almost every year there's a guy getting a nomination for the name recognition, maybe it's ADs turn this time.
User avatar
bisme37
Forum Mod - Celtics
Forum Mod - Celtics
Posts: 19,394
And1: 56,598
Joined: May 24, 2014
 

Re: The Defense thread 2024 (currently voting all-D BIGS) 

Post#652 » by bisme37 » Sun Mar 31, 2024 9:21 pm

He's not eligible for end of season awards but I wanted to shout KP out. He was excellent defending the rim vs Zion yesterday.

Read on Twitter


(That said I think Gobert has been the best defensive big this year and the frontrunner for DPOY. Wemby and AD really good too.)
RAPSinCAPS
Sophomore
Posts: 133
And1: 165
Joined: May 03, 2021
   

Re: The Defense thread 2024 (currently voting all-D BIGS) 

Post#653 » by RAPSinCAPS » Mon Apr 1, 2024 9:35 pm

Isaac is incredible, just not durable. Same for OG and KP. My vote would be wemby, his length and recoverability enables him to cover the most ground I ever seen since mutombo.
vagelis
Starter
Posts: 2,061
And1: 794
Joined: Jan 04, 2015

Re: The Defense thread 2024 (currently voting all-D BIGS) 

Post#654 » by vagelis » Mon Apr 1, 2024 11:56 pm

Wembanyama should be the DPOY imo.

Personally I have never seen a defensive player like him again.
The opponents have to avoid facing him in order to score.
He changes opponent team's offensive plan.

Gobert is a very good defender but Wembanyama is a scary defender.
Special_Puppy
Pro Prospect
Posts: 897
And1: 657
Joined: Sep 23, 2023

Re: The Defense thread 2024 (currently voting all-D BIGS) 

Post#655 » by Special_Puppy » Tue Apr 2, 2024 2:27 am

vagelis wrote:Wembanyama should be the DPOY imo.

Personally I have never seen a defensive player like him again.
The opponents have to avoid facing him in order to score.
He changes opponent team's offensive plan.

Gobert is a very good defender but Wembanyama is a scary defender.


If the Spurs have an above average defense next year, its his
shrink
RealGM
Posts: 55,294
And1: 14,708
Joined: Sep 26, 2005

Re: The Defense thread 2024 (currently voting all-D BIGS) 

Post#656 » by shrink » Tue Apr 2, 2024 5:49 am

Back in February, Rudy Gobert requested that the Wolves changed the side of the court where they have their bench. He told Finch that the team needed to be able to hear Finchy’s voice on offense. Gobert calls all the defense on the other side. He was right.

Wemby has the physical ability to make jaw-dropping plays, but it will take time before he can have the same defensive effect for a team that Gobert has. No doubt though that Wemby DPOYs are coming.
The Master
Rookie
Posts: 1,075
And1: 1,587
Joined: Dec 30, 2016

Re: The Defense thread 2024 (currently voting all-D BIGS) 

Post#657 » by The Master » Tue Apr 2, 2024 2:12 pm

bisme37 wrote:He's not eligible for end of season awards but I wanted to shout KP out. He was excellent defending the rim vs Zion yesterday.

He's excellent the whole season, 2nd best rim protector in the league behind Gobert in terms of rim protection differential (DFG% vs expected). Obviously, playing within such defensive system alongside so great 'supporting' cast is helpful, but KP is fantastic, all-star level player aside missed games.
shrink wrote:Wemby has the physical ability to make jaw-dropping plays, but it will take time before he can have the same defensive effect for a team that Gobert has.
I don't think Wemby is a DPOTY this year in terms of his overall season-long impact (he had this wasted first part of the season when he was played as a power forward), but I think he already has this monstrous 'defensive effect': as a center (since 12/08/23), he's +9.8 net positive defensively, that's the difference between Wolves (#1 defense) and Raptors (#26 defense), in Wemby's case: between 2nd and 28th D in this time span.

It's hard to extrapolate net rating of Wemby to compare it to the former DPOTY winners (the better is defense, the more difficult is to have such ridiculous net rating), but Spurs last two seasons without Wemby are dead-last in the defensive rating and center-Wemby takes them to the top (with him on a floor), you can't expect anything more from ... anyone, and that's his effect as a rookie (for most part of the season). Whether that's due to communication, his presence itself or specific skillset is kind of irrelevant.

If he had played the full season as a center (for the first 20 games of this season, he played as a power forward and safety-like role defensively) - he would've been a very realistic DPOTY candidate (level wise). Right now, I'd go with DPOTY runner-up and 2nd team All-NBA D team, what's still ridiculous for a 20yo rookie.
shrink
RealGM
Posts: 55,294
And1: 14,708
Joined: Sep 26, 2005

Re: The Defense thread 2024 (currently voting all-D BIGS) 

Post#658 » by shrink » Tue Apr 2, 2024 2:40 pm

The Master wrote:Right now, I'd go with DPOTY runner-up and 2nd team All-NBA D team, what's still ridiculous for a 20yo rookie.

He’ll be first team since All Defense is now positionless, like All NBA.
greg4012
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,343
And1: 7,801
Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Re: The Defense thread 2024 (currently voting all-D BIGS) 

Post#659 » by greg4012 » Wed Apr 3, 2024 5:34 pm

Everyone is so enamored with blocks, so Bam never gets the recognition he deserves (note: keeping teams out of the paint is as valuable or more than blocking a paint attempt). So, I'm about to hit you with it all:

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


For those who care to understand Bam's game, read the article in the following tweet:

Read on Twitter


For more color, check out the graphics in this twitter thread:

Read on Twitter
User avatar
MartyConlonJr
General Manager
Posts: 8,482
And1: 2,441
Joined: Jul 19, 2003
   

Re: The Defense thread 2024 (currently voting all-D BIGS) 

Post#660 » by MartyConlonJr » Wed Apr 3, 2024 9:19 pm

shrink wrote:Back in February, Rudy Gobert requested that the Wolves changed the side of the court where they have their bench. He told Finch that the team needed to be able to hear Finchy’s voice on offense.


This lost me - don't teams stay on one side of the court for bench but alternate sides of the court for play every quarter?

Return to The General Board