The Defense thread 2024 (Final DPOY vote)

[firedavidkahn]

So far Gobert looks to be back to his DPOY Utah ways. Hope he can keep it up. So far he's the best defender on the best defense in the league.

[firedavidkahn]

By the end of the season I think we’ll be looking at:

Gobert
Mobley
Wembanyama
Jackson Jr

And then I have to wait and see before having more confidence in:

Holmgren
Anunoby

Davis hasn’t played 65+ games since 2018 and he turns 31 this season. I don’t believe he’s all of a sudden going to put together a successful DPOY campaign this season, regardless of how he’s looked early on.

Giannis wasn’t that close to DPOY caliber for me last season, and early on so far he hasn’t looked like it to me this year either.

Lopez is only playing 26 mpg so far and he’s 35 now, not to mention he’s going to have a much tougher job on his hands this season considering the downgrade in defensive talent on the perimeter and imo a coaching downgrade as well. I don’t think he’ll be quite as effective this year. It feels like last season was his last real shot at it.

Adebayo to me is slightly below DPOY-level in the regular season. I actually think come playoffs is really when you see him become more valuable due to his switchiness/versatility.

I don’t know how much to expect of Draymond. The Warriors will probably be pretty good on defense this season, but I expect him to coast a little bit during the regular season and then ramp it up in the playoffs. He was ~top 5 for me last year, but I predict he’ll have a little less juice in the RS this season.

Embiid isn’t at that upper echelon consistently in my eyes. When he gives full effort, he can be dominant, but there are too many stretches where he takes his foot off the gas on the defensive end. It’s understandable considering his offensive load though. And without Harden, that demand on offense is only greater. You also have the injury risk with him. He’s only met the 65 game requirement twice in his 7 seasons - the last two years when he played 3 games and 1 game above that minimum.

I don’t think anyone on Boston will be doing any heavy lifting. They have great defenders all over the place.

As good as Wembanyama has been on defense, there will never be a DPOY whose team has one of the worst defenses in the league (yes I am aware of his splits). Spurs currently ranked 25th in defense which pretty much automatically disqualifies him.

[yoyoboy]

As good as Wembanyama has been on defense, there will never be a DPOY whose team has one of the worst defenses in the league (yes I am aware of his splits). Spurs currently ranked 25th in defense which pretty much automatically disqualifies him.

Automatically disqualifies him? We're 5 games into the season lmao. People around here really do not seem to understand sample sizes.

The Memphis Grizzlies were the 30th ranked defense 7 games into last season. Jaren Jackson Jr ended up winning DPOY by the end of it. How about we wait a little bit longer before stating that the Spurs' team DRTG will be too bad for Wemby to qualify?

[dirkdiggler4177]

The man is just shutting it down. 5 blocks today so far. He just shut Barns down. Can he do it as a rookie?

[VanWest82]

It's possible but we don't need to use games vs this bad Raptors offense as evidence

[One_and_Done]

At this rate he'll be getting MVP votes.

[Dr Aki]

Players are going to have to learn the skyhook, just to get their shot off against Wemby at this rate

[theforumblue]

first to get MVP, ROY, DPOY in same year!!

[srhcan]

definitely in front now for DPOY, think OG is 2nd

[Dirk]

He shut Barnes down? What game are we talking about.

[firedavidkahn]

As good as Wembanyama has been on defense, there will never be a DPOY whose team has one of the worst defenses in the league (yes I am aware of his splits). Spurs currently ranked 25th in defense which pretty much automatically disqualifies him.

Automatically disqualifies him? We're 5 games into the season lmao. People around here really do not seem to understand sample sizes.

The Memphis Grizzlies were the 30th ranked defense 7 games into last season. Jaren Jackson Jr ended up winning DPOY by the end of it. How about we wait a little bit longer before stating that the Spurs' team DRTG will be too bad for Wemby to qualify?

Ya you missed the point entirely.

If the Spurs continue to be a sieve defensively and finish in the bottom tier for team defense, Wembanyama has precisely 0 shot at DPOY if the Spurs as a team suck on defense.

If the Spurs get better? Then absolutely it is within the realm of possibility

[SFour]

OG deserves love for the elite defense he's been playing for many seasons now....Wemby is just too physically gifted though, he can sleepwalk his way into DPOY.

[Sidthekid87]

After watching that raptors game... Wemby is insane man.

[Wargreymon]

As much as I love OG (some bias lol), DPOY will probably go to Wemby and in all honesty...he deserves it. Watching how scared everyone was to enter the paint when Wemby was roaming...like you can't teach that. He's just genetically blessed.

[Mrakar]

Herb has to be up there. The guy is playing with 4 Zombies but somehow still looks great. I know that people dont watch Pels but he is clearly better than half of the players listed in poll this season.

Pelicans are somehow 7th in DEFF even though they have Mccollum, Ingram, Zion and Valanciunas in starting leneup and are getting toasted on the boards.

[cupcakesnake]

Herb has to be up there. The guy is playing with 4 Zombies but somehow still looks great. I know that people dont watch Pels but he is clearly better than half of the players listed in poll this season.

Pelicans are somehow 7th in DEFF even though they have Mccollum, Ingram, Zion and Valanciunas in starting leneup and are getting toasted on the boards.

Name 4 guys in the poll Herb is "clearly better than". If I re-did the poll today, I'd probably drop Caruso due to his minutes being too low (and the Bulls defense is pretty awful to start the season). I'd lean towards dropping Giannis too, not because he's bad but witht the Bucks defense an absolute sinkhole, there are probably other guys that are having better defensive seasons, or at least more deserving of DPOY love.

But after that it just gets tight. I like OG and Jaden slightly more than Herb as pure on-ball stoppers (they're both quite a bit bigger than him). After that the rest of the poll guys are elite bigs, and it's always hard to argue elite wing over elite wing.

Guys that aren't in the poll besides Herb:
- Rudy Gobert, leading the league's best defense (by far to start the season)
- Embiid, anchoring a top 5 defense and playing amazing to start the year
- either of the Celtics guards or Kristaps Porzingis.
- Draymond Green

To be honest, Herb isn't high up on my list so far this year. For starts, the Pelicans are 16th, not 7th, in defense.
Herb is the best defender in that starting lineup, but that starting lineup isn't defending well. Right now New Orleans is a way better defense with Herb off the floor (114.7 on, 105 off). My instinct was: well Herb is getting dragged down by Zion/CJ/Valanciunas, but the numbers disagree. The Pelicans are strong defensively with Zion and/or Val and no Herb on the floor. Herb weirdly has the worst defensive on/off numbers on the Pelicans in a way that isn't obviously tied to other players. This could be an early season statistical weirdness that doesn't bear out 20 games into the season. But there's no statistical evidence that Herb is carrying this defense. It's Dyson Daniels that is coming on the floor and all of a sudden the Pelicans are an elite defense.

I will say, Herb is an absolute shadow with how quick his feet are. He's also got quick hands that disrupt the ball. His screen navigation is excellent for a 6'6'" guy. He helps and recovers pretty well (good but not elite at the nail). I think he's skinnier and vulnerable to bumps. Bigger wings put Herb on their hip, and strong small guards know to attack his body and try to get him back peddling. He reminds me of a quicker, smaller Tayshaun Prince with his ability to stay in front of guys and disrupt shots. He's also a solid extra rim protector when he's in the paint because his second jump is so good and he's got long enough arms.

[cupcakesnake]

Chet isn’t the answer here but he should be in the poll

He's having a fantastic defensive season so far, but I don't think he "should" be amongst the top 9 defenders in discussion for the top defensive award, at least not in a no-brainer way. I think he merits discussion. Lu Dort is the other big defensive piece in OKC that merits discussion. It's easy to say "good defender on my favorite team should be on the list". But the list is 9 guys not 25 so it means tons of great defenders aren't on it. It's not even like the top 9 guys are obviously better than guys not on the list. Even just by my evaluation, I'd probably have 15-20 guys tied for spots 4-9, y'know?

[Wolfgang630]

Has a rookie won DPOY before?

[IceColdCubano]

By the end of the season I think we’ll be looking at:

Gobert
Mobley
Wembanyama
Jackson Jr

Adebayo to me is slightly below DPOY-level in the regular season. I actually think come playoffs is really when you see him become more valuable due to his switchiness/versatility.

What are you talking about? BAM is number 1 in Defensive Isolation metrics. I get it he doen'st get the pretty looking blocks, he actually stays grounded and forces a miss and does the work early so he doesn't have to come flying in from the weakside, switches on anyone and forces them to pass because they would rather not go at him in Isolation. It's really disrespectful at this point, nobody in the league can guard 1-5 like he can, there a couple that guard 1-5 except he does it better than them. Miami was one of the more clutch teams this past season even with their crap record, that was because he would clamp anyone that needed to be clamped come the end of games and let Jimmy do his thing and be a closer on the offense side. Bam is literary the same player in the regular season as he is in the playoffs, the fact other fans actually watch him in the playoffs that's another story.

[yoyoboy]

By the end of the season I think we’ll be looking at:

Gobert
Mobley
Wembanyama
Jackson Jr

Adebayo to me is slightly below DPOY-level in the regular season. I actually think come playoffs is really when you see him become more valuable due to his switchiness/versatility.

What are you talking about? BAM is number 1 in Defensive Isolation metrics. I get it he doen'st get the pretty looking blocks, he actually stays grounded and forces a miss and does the work early so he doesn't have to come flying in from the weakside, switches on anyone and forces them to pass because they would rather not go at him in Isolation. It's really disrespectful at this point, nobody in the league can guard 1-5 like he can, there a couple that guard 1-5 except he does it better than them. Miami was one of the more clutch teams this past season even with their crap record, that was because he would clamp anyone that needed to be clamped come the end of games and let Jimmy do his thing and be a closer on the offense side. Bam is literary the same player in the regular season as he is in the playoffs, the fact other fans actually watch him in the playoffs that's another story.

Defense is more than just defending in isolation. I’m not denying that Bam is an elite defender. I just have him a step below some of the other guys. He doesn’t provide the same rim protection and rebounding edges, which hurts his overall value on that end.

And I didn’t say he’s a different player in the playoffs. I said his value goes up in the playoffs. Because with playoff game planning coming into play, defensive versatility and the ability to hold your own against switch hunting offenses become more important.