Jalen Green for Alex Caruso

scrabbarista · Post #1 » by **scrabbarista** » Wed Jan 31, 2024 1:35 pm

Listening to the Sam Vecenie trade pod now and this idea was mentioned.

As a Rockets' fan, I like the idea.

What do you think? Which side, if either, would have to add picks/value, and how much?

Both players are under contract for this year and next year. Green is turning 22 soon, and Caruso turns 30 soon.

maxpower8888 · Post #2 » by **maxpower8888** » Wed Jan 31, 2024 1:38 pm

If I were the Bulls I'd say no. Green is more of a low efficiency scorer compared to Caruso who fits well into most systems and is a solid defender.

scrabbarista · Post #3 » by **scrabbarista** » Wed Jan 31, 2024 1:48 pm

maxpower8888 wrote:If I were the Bulls I'd say no. Green is more of a low efficiency scorer compared to Caruso who fits well into most systems and is a solid defender.

Green has a lot of upside. What if Houston added a top-20 protected pick down the road? Theirs or Brooklyn's or someone's.

Kiss of Death · Post #4 » by **Kiss of Death** » Wed Jan 31, 2024 1:53 pm

Rockets say no. It has been widely reported that they are not interested in trading any of the young core guys.

nomansland · Post #5 » by **nomansland** » Wed Jan 31, 2024 1:54 pm

It's a bit early to give up on Green, don't you think?

hickfromfrenchlick · Post #6 » by **hickfromfrenchlick** » Wed Jan 31, 2024 1:56 pm

A Rockets fan wants to trade a talented young guy (and a protected 1st round pick) for ... Alex Caruso?

Green literally just had his best game. He's 21. But Caruso is, what, gritty?

Ruma85 · Post #7 » by **Ruma85** » Wed Jan 31, 2024 1:56 pm

scrabbarista wrote:Listening to the Sam Vecenie trade pod now and this idea was mentioned.

As a Rockets' fan, I like the idea.

What do you think? Which side, if either, would have to add picks/value, and how much?

Both players are under contract for this year and next year. Green is turning 22 soon, and Caruso turns 30 soon.

What makes you like the idea?

El Turco · Post #8 » by **El Turco** » Wed Jan 31, 2024 2:05 pm

I do like the idea of getting rid of Jalen Green so that they dont have to put up with his ill advised shots and make it clear that it is Sengun's team. Also it would clear up space for Whitmore, Thompson and Eason.

But Caruso is a guy you get when you are contending and need him as a final piece, by the time Rockets are contending chances are he'll be gone. I rather trade Green for lottery protected first or something along those lines.

ocelot17 · Post #9 » by **ocelot17** » Wed Jan 31, 2024 2:25 pm

Jalen Green just had his best game. I’d rather get nothing than to trade for Alex Caruso.

God Squad · Post #10 » by **God Squad** » Wed Jan 31, 2024 2:27 pm

I understand people being low on Green, but a third year player drafted 2nd for Caruso?

C'mon man.

scrabbarista · Post #11 » by **scrabbarista** » Wed Jan 31, 2024 2:42 pm

hickfromfrenchlick wrote:A Rockets fan wants to trade a talented young guy (and a protected 1st round pick) for ... Alex Caruso?

Green literally just had his best game. He's 21. But Caruso is, what, gritty?

Some +/- data from this season:

Green On = -2.3
Green Off = +6.7

Green+Sengun = -1
Sengun, no Green = +7.4
Green, no Sengun = -8.6

Green, Sengun, FVV = +0.5
Sengun+FVV, no Green = +13.0

Vecenie says Green is Houston's sixth-best longterm prospect given his contract situation. He's certainly not top three. Houston has more prospects than it can pay; it should get value for one it likely won't want to pay anyway. Green's 20 ppg prototype is likely to be overpaid relative to his impact, especially as a #2 pick. He's not worth $140 million or some number like that.

The team wants to make the playoffs this year, as its pick is owed to OKC top-four protected. Caruso gets them there if the team stays healthy. Next year, too. He also fits the defensive culture and roster perfectly. I don't know about his PG skills, but if he has any, that's a major bonus, as the team has relied massively on FVV and an Aaron Holiday who has been great relative to expectations but could stand to be upgraded.

scrabbarista · Post #12 » by **scrabbarista** » Wed Jan 31, 2024 2:44 pm

Ruma85 wrote:
scrabbarista wrote:Listening to the Sam Vecenie trade pod now and this idea was mentioned.

As a Rockets' fan, I like the idea.

What do you think? Which side, if either, would have to add picks/value, and how much?

Both players are under contract for this year and next year. Green is turning 22 soon, and Caruso turns 30 soon.

What makes you like the idea?

Some +/- data from this season:

Green On = -2.3
Green Off = +6.7

Green+Sengun = -1
Sengun, no Green = +7.4
Green, no Sengun = -8.6

All three together = +0.5
Sengun+FVV, no Green = +13.0

Vecenie says Green is Houston's sixth-best longterm prospect given his contract situation. He's certainly not top three. Houston has more prospects than it can pay; it should get value for one it likely won't want to pay anyway. Green's 20 ppg prototype is likely to be overpaid relative to his impact, especially as a #2 pick. He's not worth $140 million or some number like that.

The team wants to make the playoffs this year, as its pick is owed to OKC top-four protected. Caruso gets them there if the team stays healthy. Next year, too. He also fits the defensive culture and roster perfectly. I don't know about his PG skills, but if he has any, that's a major bonus, as the team has relied massively on FVV and an Aaron Holiday who has been great relative to expectations but could stand to be upgraded.

bstein14 · Post #13 » by **bstein14** » Wed Jan 31, 2024 2:48 pm

nomansland wrote:It's a bit early to give up on Green, don't you think?

He's going to want an extension this summer but I'm sure the Rockets won't want to give him one and will instead let him become a RFA the following summer.

At some point you either have to pay him or trade him. Worst case IMO is not offering him a contract at all and then telling him to go out and get an offer and that they will match it because we've seen that happen time and time again and it just make the player unhappy that his own team didn't take care of him in the first place. It'll be another Ayton situation.

scrabbarista · Post #14 » by **scrabbarista** » Wed Jan 31, 2024 2:52 pm

God Squad wrote:I understand people being low on Green, but a third year player drafted 2nd for Caruso?

C'mon man.

Drafted 2nd and will want to get paid accordingly after next year, even though his development has disappointed and he is clearly a major negative in terms of impact. The team has five other prospects - Sengun, Smith, Eason, Thompson, and Whitmore - who it should prioritize (i.e., pay) over Green. If value can be had for Green, now is the time. Caruso gets the team where it wants to go these next two seasons. Green quite likely keeps them from getting there, and then it's time to pay him.

scrabbarista · Post #15 » by **scrabbarista** » Wed Jan 31, 2024 2:55 pm

nomansland wrote:It's a bit early to give up on Green, don't you think?

Trading a player - even a young player - shouldn't necessarily be framed as giving up on him. The team has five other prospects - Sengun, Smith, Eason, Thompson, and Whitmore - who it should prioritize (i.e., pay) over Green. If value can be had for Green, now is the time. Caruso gets the team where it wants to go these next two seasons. Green, who is clearly a negative-impact player (see my posts above), quite likely keeps them from getting there - and then it's time to pay him.

God Squad · Post #16 » by **God Squad** » Wed Jan 31, 2024 2:59 pm

scrabbarista wrote:
God Squad wrote:I understand people being low on Green, but a third year player drafted 2nd for Caruso?

C'mon man.

Drafted 2nd and will want to get paid accordingly after next year, even though his development has disappointed and he is clearly a major negative in terms of impact. The team has five other prospects - Sengun, Smith, Eason, Thompson, and Whitmore - who it should prioritize (i.e., pay) over Green. If value can be had for Green, now is the time. Caruso gets the team where it wants to go these next two seasons. Green quite likely keeps them from getting there, and then it's time to pay him.

If for whatever reason they decide to cash in on Greens value, then Caruso should not be the target. I'd aim much, much higher, even if Houston attaches another asset.

scrabbarista · Post #17 » by **scrabbarista** » Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:03 pm

God Squad wrote:
scrabbarista wrote:
God Squad wrote:I understand people being low on Green, but a third year player drafted 2nd for Caruso?

C'mon man.

Drafted 2nd and will want to get paid accordingly after next year, even though his development has disappointed and he is clearly a major negative in terms of impact. The team has five other prospects - Sengun, Smith, Eason, Thompson, and Whitmore - who it should prioritize (i.e., pay) over Green. If value can be had for Green, now is the time. Caruso gets the team where it wants to go these next two seasons. Green quite likely keeps them from getting there, and then it's time to pay him.

If for whatever reason they decide to cash in on Greens value, then Caruso should not be the target. I'd aim much, much higher, even if Houston attaches another asset.

Fair enough. Based on my own evaluation of Green as a player/prospect, I'm loving that so many are saying Houston shouldn't do this deal. Because if he has that same value in the league, Houston could come away as major winners if they do the smart thing and look to move him. Personally, I think Caruso would be enough in a vacuum, but if the market said Chicago would need to add value, so much the better.

CobraCommander · Post #18 » by **CobraCommander** » Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:05 pm

hickfromfrenchlick wrote:A Rockets fan wants to trade a talented young guy (and a protected 1st round pick) for ... Alex Caruso?

Green literally just had his best game. He's 21. But Caruso is, what, gritty?

Giving up on a 21 year old Zach for Alex is under valuing his upside to he better than Zach

TheSuzerain · Post #19 » by **TheSuzerain** » Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:05 pm

God Squad wrote:
scrabbarista wrote:
God Squad wrote:I understand people being low on Green, but a third year player drafted 2nd for Caruso?

C'mon man.

Drafted 2nd and will want to get paid accordingly after next year, even though his development has disappointed and he is clearly a major negative in terms of impact. The team has five other prospects - Sengun, Smith, Eason, Thompson, and Whitmore - who it should prioritize (i.e., pay) over Green. If value can be had for Green, now is the time. Caruso gets the team where it wants to go these next two seasons. Green quite likely keeps them from getting there, and then it's time to pay him.

If for whatever reason they decide to cash in on Greens value, then Caruso should not be the target. I'd aim much, much higher, even if Houston attaches another asset.

Green has minimal market value though.

I think because of the age thing, Houston says no. Caruso should be valued more highly by the true contenders.

But the odds of Green ever becoming better than present Caruso are very low.

CobraCommander · Post #20 » by **CobraCommander** » Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:06 pm

Ruma85 wrote:
scrabbarista wrote:Listening to the Sam Vecenie trade pod now and this idea was mentioned.

As a Rockets' fan, I like the idea.

What do you think? Which side, if either, would have to add picks/value, and how much?

Both players are under contract for this year and next year. Green is turning 22 soon, and Caruso turns 30 soon.

What makes you like the idea?

In what scenario does this make sense - they should fire the rockets gm if he talks about this in private lol

What should each team say to this swap?