NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 4: MVP Thread's Revenge)

[dygaction]

No one is saying Luka should be an MVP, and no one is saying Jokic shouldn't have been an MVP in 22, in fact I think what Jokic did it 22 is very underrated and one of the best individual players seasons in recent history, he took a very bad team to the PO, something Steph failed to do in 21 and Luka failed to do in 23.
We're saying Luka is having an MVP calibre season, and we're saying that if Luka didn't have Jokic for competition this year, he should be strong MVP candidate, we're also saying, the record argument is asinine, injuries easily account for the 8 games difference in team record between Mavs and DEN/OKC.

Hmm, I think folks should ask themselves:

This is an MVP thread. If all agree Luka should not win the MVP then why are there so many passionate Luka supporters here throwing bombs at anyone who dares to argue against Luka’s candidacy?

This isn’t a thread with Luka’s name in the title.
This isn’t a thread about Luka’s team.

It’s an award thread about an award all apparently agree Luka should not win, yet the conversation keeps being about Luka because his supporters keep clicking on this thread and stridently arguing on his behalf while strawmanning anyone who responds to them.

In a nutshell: This is not rational behavior. It’s extreme fanatical behavior. Such behavior tends to happen in these domains so it’s not it’s that awful of a thing…but if you’ve been in this thread spending your time repeatedly focused on pro-Luka arguments, you’re not being an objective analyst, you’re being a fan, and you shouldn’t delude yourself on this and think everyone else has the problem with bias.

The prominence of Luka in this thread speaks to the bias of Luka’s exceptionally potent fandom.


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Bit of an odd take. This thread is about MVP discussion, meaning that anyone who's a potential candidate is fair game. Luka is in one of those odd situations where he might have been the best regular season player this year but due to team construction before the deadline, his record is dragging him down. Is a basketball forum not a good place to talk about hypotheticals and perhaps prop a guy up if he's deserving?

If people are actively wanting to speak on Luka, shouldn't they be able to? How are we going to decide what people should be talking about? If they wanted to discuss Giannis/Jokic/Tatum/etc they can. It's clear they don't.

Dude just accused us of irrational behaviors but has the assumption that most people in this thread are objective analysts, rather than fans

[Exp0sed]

yeah, it's an odd take

earlier in the season obviously the field was much wider and so was the discussion
then it was dominated (as usual) by the Embiid stans bombarding the thread and the Embiid haters to defend against the bombardment. Embiid went down and it got very quiet haha, then a healthier discourse surrounded many different players throughout the season. focusing on Luka for the past few weeks more well..look around, open ESPN or youtube - Dallas are heavily feautred in the discourse rn because they're one of the best teams in the NBA lately and Luka (with Kyrie as well) doing some pretty extra-ordinary things on a nightly basis

check out every major podcast, media talking head or what have u - there's been alot of talk since the deadline about the Mavs and Luka in particular

everyone else is basically out of the race other then these three and Jokic + SGA have basically been par for the course, with SGA losing some steam which made the convo even quieter the more it became clear that Jokic is the overwhelming and almost inevitable MV3

I wrote alot about Luka lately and earlier in the 2nd when the Mavs were a top seed I even had had surpassing Jokic for a min there and wrote about it at the time

i'm not a Mavs fan or a Luka fan in particular apart from being a basketball fan which automatically makes me a Luka fan, I guess

we can talk about anybody you like, Luka is a hot topic rn lmfao

[Doctor MJ]

No one is saying Luka should be an MVP, and no one is saying Jokic shouldn't have been an MVP in 22, in fact I think what Jokic did it 22 is very underrated and one of the best individual players seasons in recent history, he took a very bad team to the PO, something Steph failed to do in 21 and Luka failed to do in 23.
We're saying Luka is having an MVP calibre season, and we're saying that if Luka didn't have Jokic for competition this year, he should be strong MVP candidate, we're also saying, the record argument is asinine, injuries easily account for the 8 games difference in team record between Mavs and DEN/OKC.

Hmm, I think folks should ask themselves:

This is an MVP thread. If all agree Luka should not win the MVP then why are there so many passionate Luka supporters here throwing bombs at anyone who dares to argue against Luka’s candidacy?

This isn’t a thread with Luka’s name in the title.
This isn’t a thread about Luka’s team.

It’s an award thread about an award all apparently agree Luka should not win, yet the conversation keeps being about Luka because his supporters keep clicking on this thread and stridently arguing on his behalf while strawmanning anyone who responds to them.

In a nutshell: This is not rational behavior. It’s extreme fanatical behavior. Such behavior tends to happen in these domains so it’s not it’s that awful of a thing…but if you’ve been in this thread spending your time repeatedly focused on pro-Luka arguments, you’re not being an objective analyst, you’re being a fan, and you shouldn’t delude yourself on this and think everyone else has the problem with bias.

The prominence of Luka in this thread speaks to the bias of Luka’s exceptionally potent fandom.


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What an odd way of moderating the board. Might as well close 90% of the threads that start here as soon as they open if there's a consensus. We just went through a Jayson Tatum phase despite him having even less of a chance than Luka. At least the Mavs record in recent weeks has improved enough that the seeding argument has begun to change for Luka, and that's more interesting to talk about than everyone just admitting to themselves that Jokic will win.

Also, yes, this is an MVP discussion thread, but that doesn't mean people should only talk about who will win, does it? If the Mavs/Bucks fans come in and argue Luka/Giannis is the best player in the league and should win the award, who's stopping them, and why should they be stopped? It's surely worth a discussion regardless of their exceptional fandom. Hell, we even had guys like Haliburton and Brunson occupying a place in the poll. Did anyone actually think they had any more chance of winning the award at any point than Luka right now?

So I think it's time for me to leave the thread because now everyone's making it about me. Before I go I should clarify:

Just because I have "Moderator" in my title doesn't mean that I'm presently a mod on this board, nor that if I were random posts of mine should be consider "moderating". If you think my posts here have broken rules you are free to Report them, just as I would have done with others' posts had I felt that the appropriate action.

[dygaction]

Hmm, I think folks should ask themselves:

This is an MVP thread. If all agree Luka should not win the MVP then why are there so many passionate Luka supporters here throwing bombs at anyone who dares to argue against Luka’s candidacy?

This isn’t a thread with Luka’s name in the title.
This isn’t a thread about Luka’s team.

It’s an award thread about an award all apparently agree Luka should not win, yet the conversation keeps being about Luka because his supporters keep clicking on this thread and stridently arguing on his behalf while strawmanning anyone who responds to them.

In a nutshell: This is not rational behavior. It’s extreme fanatical behavior. Such behavior tends to happen in these domains so it’s not it’s that awful of a thing…but if you’ve been in this thread spending your time repeatedly focused on pro-Luka arguments, you’re not being an objective analyst, you’re being a fan, and you shouldn’t delude yourself on this and think everyone else has the problem with bias.

The prominence of Luka in this thread speaks to the bias of Luka’s exceptionally potent fandom.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What an odd way of moderating the board. Might as well close 90% of the threads that start here as soon as they open if there's a consensus. We just went through a Jayson Tatum phase despite him having even less of a chance than Luka. At least the Mavs record in recent weeks has improved enough that the seeding argument has begun to change for Luka, and that's more interesting to talk about than everyone just admitting to themselves that Jokic will win.

Also, yes, this is an MVP discussion thread, but that doesn't mean people should only talk about who will win, does it? If the Mavs/Bucks fans come in and argue Luka/Giannis is the best player in the league and should win the award, who's stopping them, and why should they be stopped? It's surely worth a discussion regardless of their exceptional fandom. Hell, we even had guys like Haliburton and Brunson occupying a place in the poll. Did anyone actually think they had any more chance of winning the award at any point than Luka right now?

So I think it's time for me to leave the thread because now everyone's making it about me. Before I go I should clarify:

Just because I have "Moderator" in my title doesn't mean that I'm presently a mod on this board, nor that if I were random posts of mine should be consider "moderating". If you think my posts here have broken rules you are free to Report them, just as I would have done with others' posts had I felt that the appropriate action.

Nobody wanted to make it about you before you made it about posters rather than players. The way you summarized IDs, mine included, and their posts, it is hard to tell whether you are moderating or complaining. Clarification is enough and no need to leave.

Anyway, traffic and discussions are good. I don't agree with Hussainfatal and eyeatom but I don't mind Embiid having passionate fans starting 3 new GM threads after each game him feasting. The reason nobody is really discussing Jokic is because he is favored 1:10 of winning. I was arguing for SGA before all star week but since then Jokic/Nuggets have been dominating. If there is a thread talking about 100 meter sprint with peak Bolt running, people can still discuss who can put up a fight as a dark horse.

[Texas Chuck]

Shame this went personal and sideways.

I am familiar with Doc's view of Luka going back long before this thread/season. Doc is a guy who puts a ton of stock into +/-, on/off stuff which Luka hasn't looked great in during regular seasons. So Doc has long been lower on Luka than what consensus would be. Which should be fine because Doc has a consistent methodology that leads him to his positions. He also says he thinks Luka can easily be the best player in the playoffs and lead his team to a title. He's not anti-Luka in any way.

And perhaps he believes a discussion should only involve players he believes really warrant serious consideration. Combine his belief in +/-, on/off as the best way to evaluate players with a mediocre Dallas record(though clearly on the rise since the deadline moves), he doesn't see Luka as a real candidate.

Others think we should discuss players who will finish in the top 5(10?) even while conceding its likely a one man race at this point. Both perspectives seem fine.

And if Doc's name wasn't blue and posters didn't assume all blue names have mod powers in every forum(just check at the top, the GB mods are listed, and of course the green names are global) this wouldn't have become a thing. It would have just been another guy expressing his opinions.

Not sure why some posters get so worked up when a mod disagrees with them while simply operating as a poster(What we all do the vast majority of the time.). But relax, push back against takes you don';t agree with. Doc and I have gone back and forth a thousand times. But it never needs to be personal.

I will say this. Luka's been a betting favorite for MVP in the pre-season at least twice and I've always scoffed at that. But I think next year he should enter the season as one of the MVP favorites.

[HotRocks34]

HOU beats OKC (SGA out)
PHX beats DEN

DEN 51-22
OKC 50-22

[GSP]

Mavs are just 2 games behind 4 seed Clips..............they go on a run here and could Luka steal it? He wont get a top 3 seed but his raw numbers are better than Jokic and Sga. Imo its a 2man race but who knows what voters are thinking specially if Mavs end season much stronger than Denver and Okc

[Bob8]

Shame this went personal and sideways.

I am familiar with Doc's view of Luka going back long before this thread/season. Doc is a guy who puts a ton of stock into +/-, on/off stuff which Luka hasn't looked great in during regular seasons. So Doc has long been lower on Luka than what consensus would be. Which should be fine because Doc has a consistent methodology that leads him to his positions. He also says he thinks Luka can easily be the best player in the playoffs and lead his team to a title. He's not anti-Luka in any way.

And perhaps he believes a discussion should only involve players he believes really warrant serious consideration. Combine his belief in +/-, on/off as the best way to evaluate players with a mediocre Dallas record(though clearly on the rise since the deadline moves), he doesn't see Luka as a real candidate.

Others think we should discuss players who will finish in the top 5(10?) even while conceding its likely a one man race at this point. Both perspectives seem fine.

And if Doc's name wasn't blue and posters didn't assume all blue names have mod powers in every forum(just check at the top, the GB mods are listed, and of course the green names are global) this wouldn't have become a thing. It would have just been another guy expressing his opinions.

Not sure why some posters get so worked up when a mod disagrees with them while simply operating as a poster(What we all do the vast majority of the time.). But relax, push back against takes you don';t agree with. Doc and I have gone back and forth a thousand times. But it never needs to be personal.

I will say this. Luka's been a betting favorite for MVP in the pre-season at least twice and I've always scoffed at that. But I think next year he should enter the season as one of the MVP favorites.

Dr. MJ is angry at us, he got personal. Nobody was personal with him, before he basically told us, what we should discuss, who's writing too much and who has psychological problems. He wasn't even in discussion, when he suddenly crashed in with accusations. I find kinda funny that attacking mod should be defended by other mod.

Looking at +/- Luka is not even top 50 player, so it's probably irritating, if average player is even in MVP discussion. I would say that tells more about how useful +/- than Luka, dr. MJ strongly disagrees of course. But just look at net rtg, first 4 are Boston players, 3rd best is Pritchard. Boston is having 6 players in top 10. The best non Boston players is Jose Alvarado.

It would be funny seeing reactions, if Denver finishes 3rd and Mavs 4th. I know that Jokic would still win it, deservedly, but difference between them suddenly not that big.

[Handlez]

Jokic goes down as Durant dominates.

Knock knock...

Who's there?

Luka.

Luka who?

Luka coming for dat MVP.

[Bob8]

Hmm, I think folks should ask themselves:

This is an MVP thread. If all agree Luka should not win the MVP then why are there so many passionate Luka supporters here throwing bombs at anyone who dares to argue against Luka’s candidacy?

This isn’t a thread with Luka’s name in the title.
This isn’t a thread about Luka’s team.

It’s an award thread about an award all apparently agree Luka should not win, yet the conversation keeps being about Luka because his supporters keep clicking on this thread and stridently arguing on his behalf while strawmanning anyone who responds to them.

In a nutshell: This is not rational behavior. It’s extreme fanatical behavior. Such behavior tends to happen in these domains so it’s not it’s that awful of a thing…but if you’ve been in this thread spending your time repeatedly focused on pro-Luka arguments, you’re not being an objective analyst, you’re being a fan, and you shouldn’t delude yourself on this and think everyone else has the problem with bias.

The prominence of Luka in this thread speaks to the bias of Luka’s exceptionally potent fandom.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What an odd way of moderating the board. Might as well close 90% of the threads that start here as soon as they open if there's a consensus. We just went through a Jayson Tatum phase despite him having even less of a chance than Luka. At least the Mavs record in recent weeks has improved enough that the seeding argument has begun to change for Luka, and that's more interesting to talk about than everyone just admitting to themselves that Jokic will win.

Also, yes, this is an MVP discussion thread, but that doesn't mean people should only talk about who will win, does it? If the Mavs/Bucks fans come in and argue Luka/Giannis is the best player in the league and should win the award, who's stopping them, and why should they be stopped? It's surely worth a discussion regardless of their exceptional fandom. Hell, we even had guys like Haliburton and Brunson occupying a place in the poll. Did anyone actually think they had any more chance of winning the award at any point than Luka right now?

So I think it's time for me to leave the thread because now everyone's making it about me. Before I go I should clarify:

Just because I have "Moderator" in my title doesn't mean that I'm presently a mod on this board, nor that if I were random posts of mine should be consider "moderating". If you think my posts here have broken rules you are free to Report them, just as I would have done with others' posts had I felt that the appropriate action.

Kinda childish, if you ask me. Nobody wants you out. But it's true you can't dictate what are we writing here. You can strongly disagree though. Like can we with your takes.

[dygaction]

Jokic goes down as Durant dominates.

Knock knock...

Who's there?

Luka.

Luka who?

Luka coming for dat MVP.

It is kind of too late for dat, but if Mavs can continue to win decisively and get the #4 seat, Luka may get 2nd place vote. The upgraded key rotation from Dinwiddie/Bullock/DFS/Powell/Maxi/Wood to Kyrie/Exum/Jones Jr/Gafford/PJ/Lively is paying off.

[Texas Chuck]

. I find kinda funny that attacking mod should be defended by other mod.

I didn't defend/attack anyone. I was just trying to help you guys see where Doc was coming from.

But man some of you just want to be big mad. Seems dumb, but do you I guess?

[Drakeem]

Shame this went personal and sideways.

I am familiar with Doc's view of Luka going back long before this thread/season. Doc is a guy who puts a ton of stock into +/-, on/off stuff which Luka hasn't looked great in during regular seasons. So Doc has long been lower on Luka than what consensus would be. Which should be fine because Doc has a consistent methodology that leads him to his positions. He also says he thinks Luka can easily be the best player in the playoffs and lead his team to a title. He's not anti-Luka in any way.

And perhaps he believes a discussion should only involve players he believes really warrant serious consideration. Combine his belief in +/-, on/off as the best way to evaluate players with a mediocre Dallas record(though clearly on the rise since the deadline moves), he doesn't see Luka as a real candidate.

Others think we should discuss players who will finish in the top 5(10?) even while conceding its likely a one man race at this point. Both perspectives seem fine.

And if Doc's name wasn't blue and posters didn't assume all blue names have mod powers in every forum(just check at the top, the GB mods are listed, and of course the green names are global) this wouldn't have become a thing. It would have just been another guy expressing his opinions.

Not sure why some posters get so worked up when a mod disagrees with them while simply operating as a poster(What we all do the vast majority of the time.). But relax, push back against takes you don';t agree with. Doc and I have gone back and forth a thousand times. But it never needs to be personal.

I will say this. Luka's been a betting favorite for MVP in the pre-season at least twice and I've always scoffed at that. But I think next year he should enter the season as one of the MVP favorites.

Ehhh, I think the moment you tell someone what they can and can't post (assuming it abides by rules) you're going to get heat on you regardless. And with the blue name, it makes it look worse bc now you telling me to do something adds extra weight. I think even without it though, I would have responded the same way. Don't tell me what to talk about if I'm playing by the rules.

[Bob8]

. I find kinda funny that attacking mod should be defended by other mod.

I didn't defend/attack anyone. I was just trying to help you guys see where Doc was coming from.

But man some of you just want to be big mad. Seems dumb, but do you I guess?

Do I look like being mad? On the other hand your mod friend really looks to be pretty pissed right now. I have to agree with you, seems kinda dumb.

[Texas Chuck]

Ehhh, I think the moment you tell someone what they can and can't post (assuming it abides by rules) you're going to get heat on you regardless. And with the blue name, it makes it look worse bc now you telling me to do something adds extra weight. I think even without it though, I would have responded the same way. Don't tell me what to talk about if I'm playing by the rules.

Oh I agree nobody should be attempting to dictate who can and can't be discussed. I didn't address that because a half dozen posters had covered that pretty in depth.

I just think the piling on was a bit much is all.

Cheers and go Luka

[Special_Puppy]

1

[dygaction]

This thread getting heated is kinda weird. This has been a very boring MVP race all things considered

It has been indeed boring, to the extend only ~80pages in two months rather than >100pages every three or four weeks.
Jokic fans think he has it in the bag already; SGA fans think the chance is becoming lower with him cooling down after all star break; Luka fans find revived supporting cast argument over games wins but it is kind of late for this season.

[Bob8]

I have a feeling that Luka's path to MVP in 2025 is wide open now. At least in this forum.

[JonHeist]

Giannis is really about to lead a team to the 2-seed with a 31/12/6 on 65%ts statline with elite defense

and probably will finish 4th in MVP

****, a good amount of voters will put tatum ahead of him and a few will leave him out of the top 5 entirely

definition of blackballed

[Texas Chuck]

Giannis is really about to lead a team to the 2-seed with a 31/12/6 on 65%ts statline with elite defense

and probably will finish 4th in MVP

****, a good amount of voters will put tatum ahead of him and a few will leave him out of the top 5 entirely

definition of blackballed

Yeah the guy who has finished 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 1st, 1st over the past 5 years is definitely blackballed lol. Definitely there have been zero arguments for Jokic/Embiid over him the past 3 years.