NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 4: MVP Thread's Revenge)

B-easy · Post #21 » by **B-easy** » Tue Feb 6, 2024 12:22 am

Thunder are -0.5 without SGA on the court. Nuggets are -7.5 without Jokic.
Jokic leading with a small gap.

Wolfgang630 · Post #22 » by **Wolfgang630** » Tue Feb 6, 2024 12:27 am

Kinda off topic since I was thinking of Bill Russell. Wouldn’t it be cool if the nba went back and retroactively gave out Finals MVPs to players prior to Jerry West? They got the footage to watch the NBA Finals to see who would deserve it. Maybe media could still vote on it

Exp0sed · Post #23 » by **Exp0sed** » Tue Feb 6, 2024 1:57 am

B-easy wrote:Thunder are -0.5 without SGA on the court. Nuggets are -7.5 without Jokic.
Jokic leading with a small gap.

that could just mean the Nuggets have a poor bench and OKC has a better bench, which happens to be true

iggymcfrack · Post #24 » by **iggymcfrack** » Tue Feb 6, 2024 4:29 am

Kinda interesting how SGA has such a big lead in EPM over Jokic. I wonder why that is. Is the formula just giving SGA a ton of credit for his block/steal numbers or does he have better impact numbers?

Does anyone have a good source for single season RAPM for the 23/24 season only? Jokic has better raw on/off numbers, but SGA has a bigger lead over the other starters on the team.

jfs1000d · Post #25 » by **jfs1000d** » Tue Feb 6, 2024 4:36 am

Joking, sga, Gianni’s and Tatum.

5IVE5TAR5 · Post #26 » by **5IVE5TAR5** » Tue Feb 6, 2024 5:03 am

Dark Horse: Kawhi Leonard.

ChartFiction · Post #27 » by **ChartFiction** » Tue Feb 6, 2024 6:11 am

5IVE5TAR5 wrote:Dark Horse: Kawhi Leonard.

LAC face MIN and OKC right before/after all-star break. Good chance for Clippers to take the 1st seed and create some separation.

I can see him entering the mainstream conversation by the end of February if his numbers keep getting better and record keeps getting better. Arguably third right after SGA and Jokic as soon as this month.

QPR · Post #28 » by **QPR** » Tue Feb 6, 2024 6:19 am

There's almost no serious argument for Kawhi winning this outright. He's definitely top five now though.

Gatorade Sax · Post #29 » by **Gatorade Sax** » Tue Feb 6, 2024 7:12 am

At this stage for me it’s simply Jokic or SGA.. This could still change though with 30+ games remaining.

Wouldn’t surprise me to see the voters hand it to another new winner, but Jokic has shown he has every right to be mentioned with some of the greatest names in the sport and deserves the hardware that goes with it.

Wolfgang630 · Post #30 » by **Wolfgang630** » Tue Feb 6, 2024 9:02 am

Tier 1
-Jokic
-SGA

Tier 2
-Giannis
-Kawhi

mkot · Post #31 » by **mkot** » Tue Feb 6, 2024 9:25 am

I think Jokić will take his foot off the gas towards the end of the season regardless of seeding.

SGA might win the trophy if OKC keeps standing at #1 in the West, as I correctly predicted before the season

Wolfgang630 · Post #32 » by **Wolfgang630** » Tue Feb 6, 2024 10:01 am

mkot wrote:I think Jokić will take his foot off the gas towards the end of the season regardless of seeding.

SGA might win the trophy if OKC keeps standing at #1 in the West, as I correctly predicted before the season

I don’t think he’s going to take his foot off the gas. Seeding is too important with 4 teams being neck and neck. They could go from 1 seed to 4 seed any on given night.

Post #33 » by **Mavrelous** » Tue Feb 6, 2024 11:06 am

Wolfgang630 wrote:Tier 1
-Jokic
-SGA

Tier 2
-Giannis
-Kawhi

I'd move Kawhi to tier 1.
He may not have the advanced stats, but in terms of impact and narrative, he's slipping under the radar, Clipper are 1/2 game from best record in the west.

Post #34 » by **Mavrelous** » Tue Feb 6, 2024 11:09 am

B-easy wrote:Thunder are -0.5 without SGA on the court. Nuggets are -7.5 without Jokic.
Jokic leading with a small gap.

Jokic is irreplaceable in DEN roster setup, SGA isn't.
Jokic has been the best player in the league for 3.5 seasons, he is my pick for MVP (slightest of edges over SGA), his ongoing offensive peak is in conversation for ATG, but specifically his on/off, and his team performance w/o him, has much more to do with roster setup and rotations.

mkot · Post #35 » by **mkot** » Tue Feb 6, 2024 11:24 am

Wolfgang630 wrote:
mkot wrote:I think Jokić will take his foot off the gas towards the end of the season regardless of seeding.

SGA might win the trophy if OKC keeps standing at #1 in the West, as I correctly predicted before the season

I don’t think he’s going to take his foot off the gas. Seeding is too important with 4 teams being neck and neck. They could go from 1 seed to 4 seed any on given night.

The West is deep so really seed#1 - #4 is not much of a difference IMO. They do have the best HCA as someone even pointed out they shouldn't have a team there so we will see. I just think the team will prioritize resting their key guys for the playoffs and inevitably drop some games along the way.

Side note, kinda amazing to see they are only half a game behind considering the fact that Murray had missed the whole month and they had played the most b2bs in the first 3 months of the season. OKC and Minny big guns were relatively healthy and Kawhi only missed 4-5 games so far all season.

mkot · Post #36 » by **mkot** » Tue Feb 6, 2024 11:27 am

Mavrelous wrote:
Wolfgang630 wrote:Tier 1
-Jokic
-SGA

Tier 2
-Giannis
-Kawhi

I'd move Kawhi to tier 1.
He may not have the advanced stats, but in terms of impact and narrative, he's slipping under the radar, Clipper are 1/2 game from best record in the west.

Kawhi deserves to be in the conservation but he is also on a stacked team. And one can argue The System is the more valuable player on that team. Kawhi is the best player for sure.

Inspektor1312 · Post #37 » by **Inspektor1312** » Tue Feb 6, 2024 11:43 am

I agree with many posters here, Jokic is leading rn but I'd love for SGA to win it. Such a special player, and OKC will be a big problem for other teams in the coming years.

KokoKaizer wrote:Oh boy, this thread will not be the same without Embiid fans

Thank God

_NoMas · Post #38 » by **_NoMas** » Tue Feb 6, 2024 12:02 pm

mkot wrote:
Mavrelous wrote:
Wolfgang630 wrote:Tier 1
-Jokic
-SGA

Tier 2
-Giannis
-Kawhi

I'd move Kawhi to tier 1.
He may not have the advanced stats, but in terms of impact and narrative, he's slipping under the radar, Clipper are 1/2 game from best record in the west.

Kawhi deserves to be in the conservation but he is also on a stacked team. And one can argue The System is the more valuable player on that team. Kawhi is the best player for sure.

If you argued harden is the more valuable player you’d be wrong. Like really wrong

tsamo · Post #39 » by **tsamo** » Tue Feb 6, 2024 12:03 pm

How come people are not listing EPM lately?
I thought it was one of the best advanced metrics out there? Or have I missed something?

Jokic - SGA - Doncic - Kawhi - Giannis
EPM +7.0 +9.8 +6.6 +6.4 +7.6
EW 11.0 14.2 9.9 9.4 11.9

SGA clears everyone for me right now I think, especially considering his defense.

Exp0sed · Post #40 » by **Exp0sed** » Tue Feb 6, 2024 12:35 pm

Mavrelous wrote:
Wolfgang630 wrote:Tier 1
-Jokic
-SGA

Tier 2
-Giannis
-Kawhi

I'd move Kawhi to tier 1.
He may not have the advanced stats, but in terms of impact and narrative, he's slipping under the radar, Clipper are 1/2 game from best record in the west.

what about best record in general?
the reason Tatum isn't getting love is because he's playing with a lineup of allstars etc otherwise he'd be a classic "best player best team" pick

Harden was playing like a top 15-20 player last season as well, it's just Doc and Embiid. we saw Harden in game 1 of the playoffs last season when Embiid was injured
then u have PG13..

that's the only issue with KL's case (and the raw stats)
he's got the pedigree, the narrative and the ability for sure. if Clippers finish first he's def a dark horse for the award but in reality SGA and Jokic have been better, he just has a better team around him but...he's getting there

Clippers have a trio of superstars, SGA has Chet and a basically a top 20 player in J Williams and Jokic has rs Murray and MPJ..that's a considerable difference

Who is leading the race for MVP? (players listed in alphabetical order)