Sgt Major wrote:?t=LxzGBvZYl1IN0Q0aM3DKSg&s=19
Oh thanks for that tweet. Definitely going to use that on a certain poster who keeps on bringing up th are t Jokic would get exposed in pick and rolls.
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Sgt Major wrote:?t=LxzGBvZYl1IN0Q0aM3DKSg&s=19
Bob8 wrote:Petergrifindor wrote:Bob8 wrote:Jokic and Denver were better this year.
Jokic hasn't been better than Luka this year.
Nobody has.
He kinda was.
Bob8 wrote:Doctor MJ wrote:Bob8 wrote:
You're losing a lot of minutes on a player you seriously dislike.
Serious pre-season MVP candidate? Like all the obvious suspects. He will at least make 5th consecutive first All Nba team, kinda good for non impactful player, don't you think?
I think you're confused if you think hatred of Luka is what's driving me here.
I'm in the MVP thread because I'm in the MVP thread every year.
I'm discussing Luka in the MVP thread because other people think he's an MVP candidate.
Re: serious pre-season MVP candidate? To be clear what I mean: Luka was the #1 pre-season favorite for MVP in most places I saw for '20-21, '21-22 & '22-23. After '19-20, people kept expecting Luka to make the leap, and it was only after 3 seasons of failing to do as well as in the '19-20 voting that people soured on him.
This then to say that if what would down in the record books was the pre-season MVP favorites rather than the actual MVPs, Luka would be the clear cut Player of the 2020s so far.
You are kinda presenting being pre-season favourite as going against Luka.
To win MVP you first need to have a fantastic season and then have a team good enough. Both normally don't happen when you're around 20 years old.
He would have been on GOAT trajectory if he had won those MVPs. Maybe expectations were a bit too high? Being in 5 consecutive first Nba teams is still kinda good for 25 years old player, don't you think?
AleksandarN wrote:
PPG really. Ok then Embiid is better than Luka if we are strictly going with ppg. What are we even doing here
Petergrifindor wrote:AleksandarN wrote:What ways has Luka been better. What makes Luka more valuable than Jokic
8 more points per game and a way more difficult carry job.
AleksandarN wrote:dygaction wrote:AleksandarN wrote:But when you score and turnover the ball less with better efficiency that is more impactful in my books. We are not comparing Luka to an average player. We are comparing him to Jokic
Not true at all. A player can be more efficient by scoring/turnover less but less impactful. You can compare to anyone in a historical context:
34.0ppg/9.9a/4.0to @ .614TS%/12.5TOV%
26.1ppg/9.0a/2.9to @ .650TS%/12.7TOV%
7.9ppg is really a huge difference to justify the increase in turnover and decrease in efficiency, not to mention the difference between a center and a perimeter player.
I love how Yuri likes your posts when you use advanced stats. Lol. Yet he doesn’t want the numerous advanced stats that are in favour of Jokic over Luka.
Petergrifindor wrote:AleksandarN wrote:
PPG really. Ok then Embiid is better than Luka if we are strictly going with ppg. What are we even doing here
Embiid had 1 point on Doncic, not 8.
And he is not eligible.
Apples to oranges.
Doctor MJ wrote:Bob8 wrote:Doctor MJ wrote:
I think you're confused if you think hatred of Luka is what's driving me here.
I'm in the MVP thread because I'm in the MVP thread every year.
I'm discussing Luka in the MVP thread because other people think he's an MVP candidate.
Re: serious pre-season MVP candidate? To be clear what I mean: Luka was the #1 pre-season favorite for MVP in most places I saw for '20-21, '21-22 & '22-23. After '19-20, people kept expecting Luka to make the leap, and it was only after 3 seasons of failing to do as well as in the '19-20 voting that people soured on him.
This then to say that if what would down in the record books was the pre-season MVP favorites rather than the actual MVPs, Luka would be the clear cut Player of the 2020s so far.
You are kinda presenting being pre-season favourite as going against Luka.
To win MVP you first need to have a fantastic season and then have a team good enough. Both normally don't happen when you're around 20 years old.
He would have been on GOAT trajectory if he had won those MVPs. Maybe expectations were a bit too high? Being in 5 consecutive first Nba teams is still kinda good for 25 years old player, don't you think?
It's outstanding for any age, but I think expectations are still too high and this has everything to do with why Luka is so discussed in a thread for an award he really doesn't have a chance to win.
Yuri36 wrote:AleksandarN wrote:dygaction wrote:
Not true at all. A player can be more efficient by scoring/turnover less but less impactful. You can compare to anyone in a historical context:
34.0ppg/9.9a/4.0to @ .614TS%/12.5TOV%
26.1ppg/9.0a/2.9to @ .650TS%/12.7TOV%
7.9ppg is really a huge difference to justify the increase in turnover and decrease in efficiency, not to mention the difference between a center and a perimeter player.
I love how Yuri likes your posts when you use advanced stats. Lol. Yet he doesn’t want the numerous advanced stats that are in favour of Jokic over Luka.
Ok so ppg and apg are advanced stats now? You're learning us something.
And we're not talking about a 3/4 ppg difference but about an almost 8 ppg difference....and it's not like Doncic is doing that shooting 43% from the field, isn't he?
AleksandarN wrote:dygaction wrote:AleksandarN wrote:But when you score and turnover the ball less with better efficiency that is more impactful in my books. We are not comparing Luka to an average player. We are comparing him to Jokic
Not true at all. A player can be more efficient by scoring/turnover less but less impactful. You can compare to anyone in a historical context:
34.0ppg/9.9a/4.0to @ .614TS%/12.5TOV%
26.1ppg/9.0a/2.9to @ .650TS%/12.7TOV%
7.9ppg is really a huge difference to justify the increase in turnover and decrease in efficiency, not to mention the difference between a center and a perimeter player.
Btw I could go full on advanced stats but then what is the fun in that to compare Luka and jokic. I haven’t
Bob8 wrote:Doctor MJ wrote:Bob8 wrote:
You are kinda presenting being pre-season favourite as going against Luka.
To win MVP you first need to have a fantastic season and then have a team good enough. Both normally don't happen when you're around 20 years old.
He would have been on GOAT trajectory if he had won those MVPs. Maybe expectations were a bit too high? Being in 5 consecutive first Nba teams is still kinda good for 25 years old player, don't you think?
It's outstanding for any age, but I think expectations are still too high and this has everything to do with why Luka is so discussed in a thread for an award he really doesn't have a chance to win.
He might had a chance to win MVP, if Mavs were as lucky with injuries as OKC or if they got better defenders in preseason not only in February.
CobraCommander wrote:Yuri36 wrote:Bob8 wrote:
You look to be extremely hyped up.
Jokic and Denver were better this year.
Sure, Jokic and Denver were better than a Mavs team with Dwight Powell at their main center and with Kyrie out for most of the first part of season.
After the Gafford-PJ trade though and with Kyrie now fully fit, things are surprisingly (lol) not quite the same as we saw in the last Mavs-Nuggets game....and even now, I'd argue Joker has still a better team around him than Luka.
You too hyped to be a guy that doesn’t play ball for the Mavs or have a vested interest in that man’s life.
In my OPINION Luka isn’t the best player on earth - not top 3 somewhere between 4 and 5…. Could be lower depending on the game.
I never thought Harden - who shot better when he was at his peak and a better passer at his peak as well, he was never the best player in the league ever either.
Luka is fun to watch and we all love Luka but to not bow to him isn’t blasphemy unless you actually think he is Luka god.
dygaction wrote:AleksandarN wrote:dygaction wrote:
Not true at all. A player can be more efficient by scoring/turnover less but less impactful. You can compare to anyone in a historical context:
34.0ppg/9.9a/4.0to @ .614TS%/12.5TOV%
26.1ppg/9.0a/2.9to @ .650TS%/12.7TOV%
7.9ppg is really a huge difference to justify the increase in turnover and decrease in efficiency, not to mention the difference between a center and a perimeter player.
Btw I could go full on advanced stats but then what is the fun in that to compare Luka and jokic. I haven’t
I vote for Jokic over Luka this season but less turnover cannot be an argument here. The scoring 7.9ppg difference between these two is bigger than that between Jokic and Devin Vassell, who only turns the ball over 1.5 per game.
AleksandarN wrote:Yuri36 wrote:AleksandarN wrote:I love how Yuri likes your posts when you use advanced stats. Lol. Yet he doesn’t want the numerous advanced stats that are in favour of Jokic over Luka.
Ok so ppg and apg are advanced stats now? You're learning us something.
And we're not talking about a 3/4 ppg difference but about an almost 8 ppg difference....and it's not like Doncic is doing that shooting 43% from the field, isn't he?
True shooting and TOV was the main argument in his posts that you liked.
AleksandarN wrote:Bob8 wrote:Doctor MJ wrote:
It's outstanding for any age, but I think expectations are still too high and this has everything to do with why Luka is so discussed in a thread for an award he really doesn't have a chance to win.
He might had a chance to win MVP, if Mavs were as lucky with injuries as OKC or if they got better defenders in preseason not only in February.
And if Jokic didn’t have to play through injuries and having Murray miss a month of play. Jokic would be running away with the award with them probably having the same record as the Celtics.
AleksandarN wrote:dygaction wrote:AleksandarN wrote:Btw I could go full on advanced stats but then what is the fun in that to compare Luka and jokic. I haven’t
I vote for Jokic over Luka this season but less turnover cannot be an argument here. The scoring 7.9ppg difference between these two is bigger than that between Jokic and Devin Vassell, who only turns the ball over 1.5 per game.
I guess I could have used advanced stats to make a point.
Bob8 wrote:AleksandarN wrote:Bob8 wrote:
He might had a chance to win MVP, if Mavs were as lucky with injuries as OKC or if they got better defenders in preseason not only in February.
And if Jokic didn’t have to play through injuries and having Murray miss a month of play. Jokic would be running away with the award with them probably having the same record as the Celtics.
Look, you can't compare Mavs' problems with Denver's.
Mavs 33 starting lineups, Denver 13.
Mavs' most used lineup 99 minutes, Denver's most used lineup 895 minutes.
I hope you understand now the level of injury problems by the Mavs. I would say that playing 800 minutes more with the best teammates is kinda crucial.
dygaction wrote:Bob8 wrote:AleksandarN wrote:And if Jokic didn’t have to play through injuries and having Murray miss a month of play. Jokic would be running away with the award with them probably having the same record as the Celtics.
Look, you can't compare Mavs' problems with Denver's.
Mavs 33 starting lineups, Denver 13.
Mavs' most used lineup 99 minutes, Denver's most used lineup 895 minutes.
I hope you understand now the level of injury problems by the Mavs. I would say that playing 800 minutes more with the best teammates is kinda crucial.
Just curious, is the most used lineup still 99min?
I believe since Gafford got in the starting lineup, they are like 10w-1l, and the 1l is when Luka did not play.
[x]?s=20[/x]
Bob8 wrote:AleksandarN wrote:Bob8 wrote:
He might had a chance to win MVP, if Mavs were as lucky with injuries as OKC or if they got better defenders in preseason not only in February.
And if Jokic didn’t have to play through injuries and having Murray miss a month of play. Jokic would be running away with the award with them probably having the same record as the Celtics.
Look, you can't compare Mavs' problems with Denver's.
Mavs 33 starting lineups, Denver 13.
Mavs' most used lineup 99 minutes, Denver's most used lineup 895 minutes.
I hope you understand now the level of injury problems by the Mavs. I would say that playing 800 minutes more with the best teammates is kinda crucial.
AleksandarN wrote:Bob8 wrote:AleksandarN wrote:And if Jokic didn’t have to play through injuries and having Murray miss a month of play. Jokic would be running away with the award with them probably having the same record as the Celtics.
Look, you can't compare Mavs' problems with Denver's.
Mavs 33 starting lineups, Denver 13.
Mavs' most used lineup 99 minutes, Denver's most used lineup 895 minutes.
I hope you understand now the level of injury problems by the Mavs. I would say that playing 800 minutes more with the best teammates is kinda crucial.
No I am saying if Jokic had OKC injury luck jokic would be running away with the MVP right now.