Bucks dropping to play-in territory?

[Johnny Bball]

Ok someone correct me if I'm wrong.... did Doc just change their defense back to the exact same Bud style defense that gets them beat in the playoffs? Because that's what it looks like to me. They are just giving up the line again.

Wasn't the idea originally to get away from that for long term gain?

It's more match-up specific than just a basic drop defense. They employed a drop against Minnesota but went to a switch-heavy look against Philly based on personnel and it's been plainly noticeable as far as improvement. Obviously, a basic drop defense against teams like Boston and Miami would be difficult because those teams have multiple guys who thrive off shooting off of high screens. Both Jason Timpf of Hoops Tonight and Kevin O'Connor of The Ringer have done pieces talking about their improvements.

The main playoff piece for them will be establishing a "Giannis @ C" lineup that will maintain solid defense without relying on the drop.

Yeah you and I think very much alike it seems. That's just crucial. I will watch the Heat and Celtic games vs Bucks because I'm interested to see if Doc can or will adapt. I think he's a little like Bud in that regard, slow to change.

[jimmybones]

Ok someone correct me if I'm wrong.... did Doc just change their defense back to the exact same Bud style defense that gets them beat in the playoffs? Because that's what it looks like to me. They are just giving up the line again.

Wasn't the idea originally to get away from that for long term gain?

It's more match-up specific than just a basic drop defense. They employed a drop against Minnesota but went to a switch-heavy look against Philly based on personnel and it's been plainly noticeable as far as improvement. Obviously, a basic drop defense against teams like Boston and Miami would be difficult because those teams have multiple guys who thrive off shooting off of high screens. Both Jason Timpf of Hoops Tonight and Kevin O'Connor of The Ringer have done pieces talking about their improvements.

The main playoff piece for them will be establishing a "Giannis @ C" lineup that will maintain solid defense without relying on the drop.

Yeah you and I think very much alike it seems. That's just crucial. I will watch the Heat and Celtic games vs Bucks because I'm interested to see if Doc can or will adapt. I think he's a little like Bud in that regard, slow to change.

Johnny you make some great observations in this thread, it's fun to chat with fans of other teams when they have some awareness of what your team is doing.

With Bud, you have to credit him for using that deep drop system because it paired perfectly with our personnel. Brook is at his best when he's eating up space in the paint and Giannis is at his best as a secondary rim protector with a little more freedom, roving free safety style. I don't know if Bud was slow to adjust or too stubborn to adjust out of our base but it happened too many playoffs where teams found a way to beat it and we stuck with it.

I think our best case scenario is still utilizing that style of defense often but with a willingness to adjust in certain matchups. Doc (and really Dave Joerger is more then Xs and Os guys for Doc but that's semantics) will have to prove have a more diverse array of defensive looks than one really good that has it's flaws in certain matchups. I'm hopeful he can and optimistic based on early returns. People can meme the W-L record or Doc's comments all they want, there was always going to be an in season pre-season-learn-new-stuff-on-the-fly phase with a new coach mid season.

Bottom line is things are infinitely more organized and coherent under Doc than they were under Griffin.

[LUKE23]

Ok someone correct me if I'm wrong.... did Doc just change their defense back to the exact same Bud style defense that gets them beat in the playoffs? Because that's what it looks like to me. They are just giving up the line again.

Wasn't the idea originally to get away from that for long term gain?

Bucks issue in the playoffs has been far more offense than defense. Mainly, teams building a wall on Giannis and then role guys, specifically Jrue, not being able to hit open 3s. That's the primary reason they went hard after Dame. Theoretically, that ends or limits the Giannis wall defense.

Miami torched the Bucks last year, but that was more just a team being hot than anything.

If the Bucks maintain this level of defense or close to it, they will be a crazy tough out because the offense is still top 5 for the season and Lillard is really starting to cook.

[old skool]

Ok someone correct me if I'm wrong.... did Doc just change their defense back to the exact same Bud style defense that gets them beat in the playoffs? Because that's what it looks like to me. They are just giving up the line again.

Wasn't the idea originally to get away from that for long term gain?

In a recent interview Rivers said that he has not changed the basic offensive and defensive schemes. He said that he did not want players thinking too much about a new system injected mid-season.

He said defensively coaching has focused on improved execution of the existing scheme. He specifically mentioned several points of emphasis. More defensive effort. Running back in transition. Improved communication as a team. Keeping hands up and arms extended to force looped passes and altered shots. Bumping the opponent. Being disruptive by deflecting passes. Making the offensive opponent uncomfortable. Preventing a smooth offensive flow.

He said that he asked each player to tell him what the team's identity was, and when no one could give him an answer, told them that it had to start with defense.

He said it will take the team a while to build up their conditioning to be able to play hard on both ends of the court, as the defensive effort has hurt the offense some.

He did not mention rotations, but clearly the rookies and 2nd year youngsters have been moved to the end of the bench for now.

[JazzUte88]

Dame’s a good scorer but likes to chuck, we’ll see if he’s any good in the playoffs

[nikster]

How are Bucks fans feeling about Doc and the team now? After that winning steak theyve gone 5-6 in their last 11 games. In the month of March they have the 20th defensive rating in the league

[Phystic]

Bucks and Suns being playin teams, possibly even missing the playoffs altogether, would be wild. They tried to build superteams, they were both the offseason hype trains, and now both are in big trouble.

As a Suns fan I would obviously be very unhappy but also a little relieved as it would be a sign that super teams are no longer a requirement.

[liquidswords]

They are only 4 games ahead of the Heat and Magic. They have the second toughest remaining schedule.

I'd be more worried about your team dropping out of the play-in entirely with that remaining schedule

[schnakenpopanz]

They are only 4 games ahead of the Heat and Magic. They have the second toughest remaining schedule.

I'd be more worried about your team dropping out of the play-in entirely with that remaining schedule

Suns are frauds from the get go. No need to worry here.

[jkvonny]

How are Bucks fans feeling about Doc and the team now? After that winning steak theyve gone 5-6 in their last 11 games. In the month of March they have the 20th defensive rating in the league

A handful of them are very happy with Doc. Thrilled beyond belief.

He's doing a wonderful job!

[dhsilv2]

Wtf are you people high the bucks ain’t dropping below 3 and I still think they pass Cleveland to get the 2 seed. Middleton will be back soon so our offense will be at full strength we are already a top 10 D with Doc as a coach.

Top 10 coach at what? Losing? There is no chance in hell Doc lets the bucks win a title on his watch!

[Tottery]

Doc is getting a bad rap in this situation. He took over mid season with only a week or so of practices left. No off season, training camp, pre season etc. to work through schemes. Basically, learning as they go during the pivotal point in the season.

Their defense has improved since he took over, but Dame will always be a liability in that area.

Next season should be the one fans are critical about.

[ShootersShoot]

Didnt think the pels would have basically the same record as the bucks at this point of the season.

[nikster]

Doc is getting a bad rap in this situation. He took over mid season with only a week or so of practices left. No off season, training camp, pre season etc. to work through schemes. Basically, learning as they go during the pivotal point in the season.

Their defense has improved since he took over, but Dame will always be a liability in that area.

Next season should be the one fans are critical about.

I agree he can't implement everything he needs to mid season. But defense doesn't seem to be that much better, they were 19th in defensive rating before Doc took over. Since he took over they are 13th, in March they are 20th again

[UglyBugBall]

Doc is getting a bad rap in this situation. He took over mid season with only a week or so of practices left. No off season, training camp, pre season etc. to work through schemes. Basically, learning as they go during the pivotal point in the season.

Their defense has improved since he took over, but Dame will always be a liability in that area.

Next season should be the one fans are critical about.

I agree he can't implement everything he needs to mid season. But defense doesn't seem to be that much better, they were 19th in defensive rating before Doc took over. Since he took over they are 13th, in March they are 20th again

19th to 13th is a big jump.

[nikster]

Doc is getting a bad rap in this situation. He took over mid season with only a week or so of practices left. No off season, training camp, pre season etc. to work through schemes. Basically, learning as they go during the pivotal point in the season.

Their defense has improved since he took over, but Dame will always be a liability in that area.

Next season should be the one fans are critical about.

I agree he can't implement everything he needs to mid season. But defense doesn't seem to be that much better, they were 19th in defensive rating before Doc took over. Since he took over they are 13th, in March they are 20th again

19th to 13th is a big jump.

Teams are usually clustered around the middle so large jump in rankings tend to be small differences in rating. For the season bucks are 14th. The difference between them and 13th is 0.8, which is the same difference between them and 21st.

[Jamaaliver]

[FarBeyondDriven]

Bucks issue is that Giannis hasn't developed one iota in several years. He went on PEDs, put on a bunch of muscle and combined with his size and length made him overwhelming and nearly impossible to stop, years ago. But since? Nothing. It was fine when the Eastern Conference was weaker and/or decimated by injuries but not now. Just being able to actually hit FTs would completely transform his game and make the Bucks unstoppable. Their whole system comes to a screeching halt at the end of games because of his FT shooting. But he can't be bothered apparently. Reminds me of Shaq. I'm tired of hearing about his work ethic. Putting on muscle via PEDs isn't work ethic. Work ethic entails working on flaws until they're no longer flaws. Shooting is all about reps. No basketball player that works at their craft should be shooting sub 70% from the FT line and sub 30% from three in their late 20s. His shooting has actually gotten worse!

[Chessboxer]

How are Bucks fans feeling about Doc and the team now? After that winning steak theyve gone 5-6 in their last 11 games. In the month of March they have the 20th defensive rating in the league

Its really only NBA fans outside of Milwaukee that have an issue with Docs tenure in Milwaukee thus far. You visit the Bucks forum and other social media they consider Doc a huge upgrade over Griffin. That is even taking into the consideration the recent struggles as well.

[iLLmatic860]

Ok someone correct me if I'm wrong.... did Doc just change their defense back to the exact same Bud style defense that gets them beat in the playoffs? Because that's what it looks like to me. They are just giving up the line again.

Wasn't the idea originally to get away from that for long term gain?

Bucks issue in the playoffs has been far more offense than defense. Mainly, teams building a wall on Giannis and then role guys, specifically Jrue, not being able to hit open 3s. That's the primary reason they went hard after Dame. Theoretically, that ends or limits the Giannis wall defense.

Miami torched the Bucks last year, but that was more just a team being hot than anything.

If the Bucks maintain this level of defense or close to it, they will be a crazy tough out because the offense is still top 5 for the season and Lillard is really starting to cook.

Yeah thats a big observation that i've noticed. Bucks are just one of those teams that can turn it up another level in the playoffs. Jrue is def a big loss for them but Bucks biggest problem for years now is Giannis just can't consistently close. Thread title is really dramatic lol