Jordan's iso efficiency with just his left hand compared to iso efficiency of today's players.

[SportsGuru08]

Hardcore LeBron fans have a talent for self-ownage and this is the latest example.

Reminds me of Shannon Sharpe getting defensive over Phil Jackson's remarks about LeBron, basically discrediting Jackson because he "coached three Top 10 players in NBA history"...when he had always used Jackson to discredit Jordan. Most disingenuous fanbase in the world.

[Heej]

Dipper 13 admits that his +/- stats might have some "highlight bias." In any case, I went back and looked at some of his old posts, and he appears to correctly interpret Pollack's raw data to get Barkley's true plus-minus statistics that you posted. Indeed, he even contrasts Pollack's data with his own and admits the highlight effect. So these the poster was aware of the inconsistency. However, in terms of his points per possession analysis, he gives ever game and charts every shot with their outcome. That data has nothing to do with any plus-minus data, so I am not sure why you are using plus-minus to disprove a separate analysis. This is what he calls "isolation tendencies," and like I said we are getting into the realm of semantics, i.e. is a play an assist or an iso scoring a situation. Some of this gets chalked to the score keeper who decides. The point is that he took a large sample of plays over many games and charted Jordan's ppp going left to come up with his figure. Since the games are listed in his post and probably all still on youtube, anybody can double check his results. In any case, it's kind of overkill to use ppp for something like this anyway since this ppp efficiency is more of a team stat. Simple fg% vs league average is good enough for a single player, and the youtuber did another sample of Jordan's games and noted Jordan was above league average, i.e. "efficient."

In an case, Jordan had 10 scoring titles and is #1 all-time in OBPM. There is nothing to debate.

That dude shows up in every single MJ thread with some biased statistical effort to discredit MJ. Every single thread.

Ignore him.

His dedication is admirable somewhat.

It's funny at this point.

Ad hominems are really the first go-to when you don't have an argument. Thank you for confirming the stereotype.

Also, it's hilariously typical that GB got bamboozled by fake stats. I'm not even surprised at this point. GB posters are barely one tier above Twitter casuals and YouTube comment NPCs

[TheGOATRises007]

That dude shows up in every single MJ thread with some biased statistical effort to discredit MJ. Every single thread.

Ignore him.

His dedication is admirable somewhat.

It's funny at this point.

Ad hominems are really the first go-to when you don't have an argument. Thank you for confirming the stereotype.

Also, it's hilariously typical that GB got bamboozled by fake stats. I'm not even surprised at this point. GB posters are barely one tier above Twitter casuals and YouTube comment NPCs

You accuse me of ad hominems when you're literally doing it on a broader scale

Thank you for confirming the irony

[Heej]

His dedication is admirable somewhat.

It's funny at this point.

Ad hominems are really the first go-to when you don't have an argument. Thank you for confirming the stereotype.

Also, it's hilariously typical that GB got bamboozled by fake stats. I'm not even surprised at this point. GB posters are barely one tier above Twitter casuals and YouTube comment NPCs

You accuse me of ad hominems when you're literally doing it on a broader scale

Thank you for confirming the irony

That is me gently reminding you that neither of you have managed to actually respond to his stance. Also I wasn't the guy believing some nincompoop's haphazard unethical sampling

[Jta444]

Like this one? https://fadeawayworld.net/lebron-james-has-only-made-19-of-107-shots-in-clutch-situation-during-his-career-17-8-fg-12-5-from-3-pointers

This one is well known.

Or perhaps his 38% midrange percentage, which sinks to 35% in the playoffs? And these are not even clutch stats- general stats.

Or how about his 73% free throw percentage? Think that’s been a good situation in the clutch?

Did you not watch Durant triple his clutch points in their finals series?

You should validate accusations before making them. The vast majority of positive Lebron clutch stats are cherry picked from a tiny sample size or include several minutes in the fourth. He’s definitely great in the fourth, but not for high pressure shots.

I watched KD and applauded him even though i was going for Cleveland. He was clutch as hell and a 7 footer pulling up from 3 for a dagger TWICE was amazing.

My thinking was more of the fact that you thrive on being negative about one damn player to the point of making it a sig.
Just seems like loser type shyt but im a bit older and dont get off on hate like you younger fellas. Id just rather celebrate who i DO like. You life will suck and it will be your own doing.

See, I really appreciate your maturity and objectivity in terms of respecting Durant. That said, your second paragraph is immature as can be. Most fans of Lebron downgrade KD, hate him for joining Steph etc. despite the Heat Big 3. They won't compliment Durant one bit and make excuses for his finals efficiency/performance and act like Lebron was on another tier. Durant was awesome, as was Lebron.

The only reason that I do this is to refute these annoying actions. It's not me going out of my way to insult
Lebron. I'm just giving a reality check; he's not perfect.

But when a lot of fans of one player start trying to downplay another player (Jordan slander, obviously in this case, is very annoying), Lebron will get the arguments in return and it won't look good a lot of the time. Jordan is a very high measuring stick to be measured against.

If it weren't for these posters, I'd barely be chatting about Lebron and my sig wouldn't exist. It's simply enjoyable for me.
A while ago, it involved James Harden's playoff woes, because a few posters were telling me that he was an equal or better scorer to Jordan. I thought it was ridiculous, so I posted why in my signature.

At least when Durant joined Steph they won back to back DOMINANTLY. (shouldve been 3 but Durant got injured. When Bron Bron formed the Heatles he lost his 1st year then almost lost to Spurs in 2013 only to be spanked a year later in 2014. For all his supposed self-proclaimed GOATNESS he hasn’t really dominated the league comfortably despite his numerous forming of superteams and collusions. He has been swept more times more than he swept opponents. His GOAT status is more a product of social media hype and Klutch marketing. More hype than real world substance. With Jordan you can feel it, with Lebron he needs longevity and inflated stats records to be claimed the GOAT.

[SportsGuru08]

I watched KD and applauded him even though i was going for Cleveland. He was clutch as hell and a 7 footer pulling up from 3 for a dagger TWICE was amazing.

My thinking was more of the fact that you thrive on being negative about one damn player to the point of making it a sig.
Just seems like loser type shyt but im a bit older and dont get off on hate like you younger fellas. Id just rather celebrate who i DO like. You life will suck and it will be your own doing.

See, I really appreciate your maturity and objectivity in terms of respecting Durant. That said, your second paragraph is immature as can be. Most fans of Lebron downgrade KD, hate him for joining Steph etc. despite the Heat Big 3. They won't compliment Durant one bit and make excuses for his finals efficiency/performance and act like Lebron was on another tier. Durant was awesome, as was Lebron.

The only reason that I do this is to refute these annoying actions. It's not me going out of my way to insult
Lebron. I'm just giving a reality check; he's not perfect.

But when a lot of fans of one player start trying to downplay another player (Jordan slander, obviously in this case, is very annoying), Lebron will get the arguments in return and it won't look good a lot of the time. Jordan is a very high measuring stick to be measured against.

If it weren't for these posters, I'd barely be chatting about Lebron and my sig wouldn't exist. It's simply enjoyable for me.
A while ago, it involved James Harden's playoff woes, because a few posters were telling me that he was an equal or better scorer to Jordan. I thought it was ridiculous, so I posted why in my signature.

At least when Durant joined Steph they won back to back DOMINANTLY. (shouldve been 3 but Durant got injured. When Bron Bron formed the Heatles he lost his 1st year then almost lost to Spurs in 2013 only to be spanked a year later in 2014. For all his supposed self-proclaimed GOATNESS he hasn’t really dominated the league comfortably despite his numerous forming of superteams and collusions. He has been swept more times more than he swept opponents. His GOAT status is more a product of social media hype and Klutch marketing. More hype than real world substance. With Jordan you can feel it, with Lebron he needs longevity and inflated stats records to be claimed the GOAT.

Meanwhile, Jordan just needed Pippen to become a pretty good (not even great) player to go from close losses to Detroit to sweeping them emphatically.

Now imagine if he joined forces with Olajuwon, a guy who won a championship with Vernon Maxwell and an aging Clyde Drexler as his best perimeter options. No way they have a 2011 LeBron moment or don't dominate like Golden State.

[Marrrcuss]

I watched KD and applauded him even though i was going for Cleveland. He was clutch as hell and a 7 footer pulling up from 3 for a dagger TWICE was amazing.

My thinking was more of the fact that you thrive on being negative about one damn player to the point of making it a sig.
Just seems like loser type shyt but im a bit older and dont get off on hate like you younger fellas. Id just rather celebrate who i DO like. You life will suck and it will be your own doing.

See, I really appreciate your maturity and objectivity in terms of respecting Durant. That said, your second paragraph is immature as can be. Most fans of Lebron downgrade KD, hate him for joining Steph etc. despite the Heat Big 3. They won't compliment Durant one bit and make excuses for his finals efficiency/performance and act like Lebron was on another tier. Durant was awesome, as was Lebron.

The only reason that I do this is to refute these annoying actions. It's not me going out of my way to insult
Lebron. I'm just giving a reality check; he's not perfect.

But when a lot of fans of one player start trying to downplay another player (Jordan slander, obviously in this case, is very annoying), Lebron will get the arguments in return and it won't look good a lot of the time. Jordan is a very high measuring stick to be measured against.

If it weren't for these posters, I'd barely be chatting about Lebron and my sig wouldn't exist. It's simply enjoyable for me.
A while ago, it involved James Harden's playoff woes, because a few posters were telling me that he was an equal or better scorer to Jordan. I thought it was ridiculous, so I posted why in my signature.

At least when Durant joined Steph they won back to back DOMINANTLY. (shouldve been 3 but Durant got injured. When Bron Bron formed the Heatles he lost his 1st year then almost lost to Spurs in 2013 only to be spanked a year later in 2014. For all his supposed self-proclaimed GOATNESS he hasn’t really dominated the league comfortably despite his numerous forming of superteams and collusions. He has been swept more times more than he swept opponents. His GOAT status is more a product of social media hype and Klutch marketing. More hype than real world substance. With Jordan you can feel it, with Lebron he needs longevity and inflated stats records to be claimed the GOAT.

Like, i almost didnt go through with the reply because its absolute stupidity to act as if this stuff is in a vacuum, absent of other factors. Golden State won 73 games without KD and youre giving them props for dominating WITH him? Dude.

[Jta444]

See, I really appreciate your maturity and objectivity in terms of respecting Durant. That said, your second paragraph is immature as can be. Most fans of Lebron downgrade KD, hate him for joining Steph etc. despite the Heat Big 3. They won't compliment Durant one bit and make excuses for his finals efficiency/performance and act like Lebron was on another tier. Durant was awesome, as was Lebron.

The only reason that I do this is to refute these annoying actions. It's not me going out of my way to insult
Lebron. I'm just giving a reality check; he's not perfect.

But when a lot of fans of one player start trying to downplay another player (Jordan slander, obviously in this case, is very annoying), Lebron will get the arguments in return and it won't look good a lot of the time. Jordan is a very high measuring stick to be measured against.

If it weren't for these posters, I'd barely be chatting about Lebron and my sig wouldn't exist. It's simply enjoyable for me.
A while ago, it involved James Harden's playoff woes, because a few posters were telling me that he was an equal or better scorer to Jordan. I thought it was ridiculous, so I posted why in my signature.

At least when Durant joined Steph they won back to back DOMINANTLY. (shouldve been 3 but Durant got injured. When Bron Bron formed the Heatles he lost his 1st year then almost lost to Spurs in 2013 only to be spanked a year later in 2014. For all his supposed self-proclaimed GOATNESS he hasn’t really dominated the league comfortably despite his numerous forming of superteams and collusions. He has been swept more times more than he swept opponents. His GOAT status is more a product of social media hype and Klutch marketing. More hype than real world substance. With Jordan you can feel it, with Lebron he needs longevity and inflated stats records to be claimed the GOAT.

Like, i almost didnt go through with the reply because its absolute stupidity to act as if this stuff is in a vacuum, absent of other factors. Golden State won 73 games without KD and youre giving them props for dominating WITH him? Dude.

Dude Wade won a championship without Lebron then you add in Bosh how come they didn’t dominate during their run? That’s on Lebron his style of ball is just not conducive to winning it’s more for accumulating his stats. Again people like to not credit Durant for his champs why? Lebron teamed up with Wade and Bosh in a league without a superteam! Weakass move! Lebron the only player who failed to win 1st year when forming a superteam. Celtics did it in 08. Warriors did in 2017. How can Lebron be the GOAT when he always struggles winning? He doesnt even have a 70 win season like Jordan does

[prophet_of_rage]

You'd have to compare to iso efficiency of the time since iso was more efficient back then generally.

Based on what?

Based on the rules. You could iso then. You can't isolate now. The hoop will be occupied.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

[prophet_of_rage]

Based on what?

Based on it being a more regular move and much less help defense and no zone either.

More suited to isolation play than 00s or later.

More teams iso’d in the post Jordan era from a volume standing, but I’ve never seen anything suggesting that iso’s are less efficient now than they were, considering how easy it is to draw fouls and the space.

I’d love to see the efficiency numbers on isos, I’d guess they are more efficient now.

You'd guess wrong. That's why players don't iso like they used to. They also created the illegal offence rule that reduced the efficiency of Jordan isos.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

[prophet_of_rage]

So basically to some

"Players nowadays are way better , better skilled, more offensive weapon , greater shooting , stronger , faster , way more efficient "

Data showed Jordan with better ISO efficiency

"Doesn't mean anything, is easier to ISO in the past"

Yeah make sense, is easier for player with lesser skills, poorer shooting to beat defender

So then we agree Wilt is the greatest basketball player of all time?

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

[LakersLegacy]

Left hand JORDAN list
-stole game plan in the championship against KAREEMLESS JOHNSON with HIV CHEATED
-steroid era
-gambled professionally on games
-excluded starting center LUC from VICTORY CELEBRATION TO self worship
-raised son to sleep with ALL WORLD ALL STAR BETTER DEFENDER TEAMMATE’s WIFE

Air-allbaal-JORDANX2

[bledredwine]

I watched KD and applauded him even though i was going for Cleveland. He was clutch as hell and a 7 footer pulling up from 3 for a dagger TWICE was amazing.

My thinking was more of the fact that you thrive on being negative about one damn player to the point of making it a sig.
Just seems like loser type shyt but im a bit older and dont get off on hate like you younger fellas. Id just rather celebrate who i DO like. You life will suck and it will be your own doing.

See, I really appreciate your maturity and objectivity in terms of respecting Durant. That said, your second paragraph is immature as can be. Most fans of Lebron downgrade KD, hate him for joining Steph etc. despite the Heat Big 3. They won't compliment Durant one bit and make excuses for his finals efficiency/performance and act like Lebron was on another tier. Durant was awesome, as was Lebron.

The only reason that I do this is to refute these annoying actions. It's not me going out of my way to insult
Lebron. I'm just giving a reality check; he's not perfect.

But when a lot of fans of one player start trying to downplay another player (Jordan slander, obviously in this case, is very annoying), Lebron will get the arguments in return and it won't look good a lot of the time. Jordan is a very high measuring stick to be measured against.

If it weren't for these posters, I'd barely be chatting about Lebron and my sig wouldn't exist. It's simply enjoyable for me.
A while ago, it involved James Harden's playoff woes, because a few posters were telling me that he was an equal or better scorer to Jordan. I thought it was ridiculous, so I posted why in my signature.

At least when Durant joined Steph they won back to back DOMINANTLY. (shouldve been 3 but Durant got injured. When Bron Bron formed the Heatles he lost his 1st year then almost lost to Spurs in 2013 only to be spanked a year later in 2014. For all his supposed self-proclaimed GOATNESS he hasn’t really dominated the league comfortably despite his numerous forming of superteams and collusions. He has been swept more times more than he swept opponents. His GOAT status is more a product of social media hype and Klutch marketing. More hype than real world substance. With Jordan you can feel it, with Lebron he needs longevity and inflated stats records to be claimed the GOAT.

Fact is, Lebron has had way too many moments and important games in his career when he seemed vulnerable or underperformed.... in the most important situations; playoffs or finals. From Boston quitting, to 2011, to the next Spurs/Heat first few games before Ray and Bosh saved his literal championship aspirations (and Bron played really well after), to the clutch quarters where KD outscored him by triple the 4th quarter points, to not guarding Durant in the finals the second time around.

It's just far too much weakness and lack of initiative to be on that level with Jordan. That's just what the fans and media want at whatever present moment in time. Good for the game though- makes him strive to be that. Jordan literally did the opposite of that - Bulls were in dire need several times, and he took initiative. The problem is fans have completely forgotten his 13 field goals straight against the Lakers including "The Move", or his all 12 of the 4th quarter Bulls points before Paxson hit the championship winning shot.

The flu game? Pippen's bad back? The back to back layup, steal, championship winning shot all within 30 seconds?

There's a reason he's never been to game 6, and while posters would like to claim it's just the team, they're wrong. It's him rising to the occasion every. damned. time. Even in his worst series against Shaq's Orlando Magic, when he returned midway through the season completely out of basketball shape after 2 years off, he had one fumble of the ball but was the best player on the court.

[Marrrcuss]

Fact is, Lebron has had way too many moments and important games in his career when he seemed vulnerable or underperformed.... in the most important situations; playoffs or finals. From Boston quitting, to 2011, to the next Spurs/Heat first few games before Ray and Bosh saved his literal championship aspirations (and Bron played really well after), to the clutch quarters where KD outscored him by triple the 4th quarter points, to not guarding Durant in the finals the second time around.

It's just far too much weakness and lack of initiative to be on that level with Jordan. That's just what the fans and media want at whatever present moment in time. Good for the game though- makes him strive to be that. Jordan literally did the opposite of that - Bulls were in dire need several times, and he took initiative. The problem is fans have completely forgotten his 13 field goals straight against the Lakers including "The Move", or his all 12 of the 4th quarter Bulls points before Paxson hit the championship winning shot.

The flu game? Pippen's bad back? The back to back layup, steal, championship winning shot all within 30 seconds?

There's a reason he's never been to game 6, and while posters would like to claim it's just the team, they're wrong. It's him rising to the occasion every. damned. time. Even in his worst series against Shaq's Orlando Magic, when he returned midway through the season completely out of basketball shape after 2 years off, he had one fumble of the ball but was the best player on the court.

Thing is, due to the great efforts of MJ fans who, again, trashed Kobe for years and then used the experience to do the same to lebron, we remember every lebron misstep. In fact, his every mistake is made into a video these days.
As I pointed out this week, lebron got absolutely roasted for switching off KD on to Steph at the 3 point line by YOU GUYS.

MJ was lucky to pre-date the internet and hot takes from sports journalists. He's had many missteps that were forgotten amd didn't get overanalyzed.

I said lucky but he was one, if not the greatest ever and I hope i didn't come off as dumb and miserable as the Bron haters.