Jordan's iso efficiency with just his left hand compared to iso efficiency of today's players.

[alebaba]

I still think he's the greatest ever but there was also so many things that allowed players in the 90's to ISO to their heart's content. I mean illegal defenses where guys like Bill Wennington and Luc Longley could stand opposite side of the court and force their defender to stay near, pre 5 second rule where a dude could just size up his defender for basically ever 1 on 1 and that's before even getting into soft doubles being straight up illegal.

There's so much space in todays game, plus the center can't even camp the paint. gl guarding a prime Mj, and he knows how to play off the ball too.

[Doctor MJ]

Yet another thing I used to tell Kobe fans proven true. But all you need to do is watch… even just highlights, to see how ridiculous he was with the left hand.

It’s those mitts.

Yeah that's my thought as well.

The phrasing makes it sound like he was shooting jumpers with his off-hand better than everyone else with their dominant hand, but I'd expect what we're talking about are shots that were either layups or dunks from Jordan being compared with all iso shots from everyone else.

And when it comes to layups and dunks, having a massive hand size is an incredible advantage. A fully legit advantage, but not the same thing as simply being that much better of a shooter than other people.

[Baddy Chuck]

I still think he's the greatest ever but there was also so many things that allowed players in the 90's to ISO to their heart's content. I mean illegal defenses where guys like Bill Wennington and Luc Longley could stand opposite side of the court and force their defender to stay near, pre 5 second rule where a dude could just size up his defender for basically ever 1 on 1 and that's before even getting into soft doubles being straight up illegal.

There's so much space in todays game, plus the center can't even camp the paint. gl guarding a prime Mj, and he knows how to play off the ball too.

I think Jordan would demolish just about any era defense with enough play, I just think the 90's era "clear out" for ISO/post play provided much more space for guys than the space created today based around actual spacing (shooting), ball movement and player movement with a much lower entry cost. Jordan was one of if not the best at it so he benefited more than just about anyone and it didn't often slog down to the ugly play you'd see with other "iso masters" of the time but the rules allowed for some laughable basketball to be played. Talking of my original post, all three of those rules were outlawed heading into the 2000's, and while there was speedbumps initially, it allowed offenses to flourish (maybe a little too much as we're seeing today).

[bledredwine]

Yet another thing I used to tell Kobe fans proven true. But all you need to do is watch… even just highlights, to see how ridiculous he was with the left hand.

It’s those mitts.

Yeah that's my thought as well.

The phrasing makes it sound like he was shooting jumpers with his off-hand better than everyone else with their dominant hand, but I'd expect what we're talking about are shots that were either layups or dunks from Jordan being compared with all iso shots from everyone else.

And when it comes to layups and dunks, having a massive hand size is an incredible advantage. A fully legit advantage, but not the same thing as simply being that much better of a shooter than other people.

You're right. He didn't really shoot left handed but his ability to dribble without turning it over, but especially to finish around the rim with both hands was the best we've seen by a mile, to put it frankly.

It has to be the mitts. I have big hands, am not good at basketball but I can finish around the rim much better than I do anything else. It helps a lot.

[Doctor MJ]

Yet another thing I used to tell Kobe fans proven true. But all you need to do is watch… even just highlights, to see how ridiculous he was with the left hand.

It’s those mitts.

Yeah that's my thought as well.

The phrasing makes it sound like he was shooting jumpers with his off-hand better than everyone else with their dominant hand, but I'd expect what we're talking about are shots that were either layups or dunks from Jordan being compared with all iso shots from everyone else.

And when it comes to layups and dunks, having a massive hand size is an incredible advantage. A fully legit advantage, but not the same thing as simply being that much better of a shooter than other people.

You're right. He didn't really shoot left handed but his ability to dribble without turning it over, but especially to finish around the rim with both hands was the best we've seen by a mile, to put it frankly.

It has to be the mitts. I have big hands, am not good at basketball but I can finish around the rim much better than I do anything else. It helps a lot.

imho opinion modern scouting and development doesn't do enough to maximize what guys with huge hands can do. It's one of those things where there's just a whole new set of moves you can pull once your hands get big enough, but it's so rare that it doesn't really make sense to optimize around as a coach if he's just a guy who's going to pass through in a year.

[bledredwine]

Yeah that's my thought as well.

The phrasing makes it sound like he was shooting jumpers with his off-hand better than everyone else with their dominant hand, but I'd expect what we're talking about are shots that were either layups or dunks from Jordan being compared with all iso shots from everyone else.

And when it comes to layups and dunks, having a massive hand size is an incredible advantage. A fully legit advantage, but not the same thing as simply being that much better of a shooter than other people.

You're right. He didn't really shoot left handed but his ability to dribble without turning it over, but especially to finish around the rim with both hands was the best we've seen by a mile, to put it frankly.

It has to be the mitts. I have big hands, am not good at basketball but I can finish around the rim much better than I do anything else. It helps a lot.

imho opinion modern scouting and development doesn't do enough to maximize what guys with huge hands can do. It's one of those things where there's just a whole new set of moves you can pull once your hands get big enough, but it's so rare that it doesn't really make sense to optimize around as a coach if he's just a guy who's going to pass through in a year.

I believe it.
I'm actually curious what player development personnel actually do; how much they control the trajectory, if they truly guide the playstyles of the players or if that's mostly up to the player, and they simply give them training to improve the aspects of their game.

[Doctor MJ]

You're right. He didn't really shoot left handed but his ability to dribble without turning it over, but especially to finish around the rim with both hands was the best we've seen by a mile, to put it frankly.

It has to be the mitts. I have big hands, am not good at basketball but I can finish around the rim much better than I do anything else. It helps a lot.

imho opinion modern scouting and development doesn't do enough to maximize what guys with huge hands can do. It's one of those things where there's just a whole new set of moves you can pull once your hands get big enough, but it's so rare that it doesn't really make sense to optimize around as a coach if he's just a guy who's going to pass through in a year.

I believe it.
I'm actually curious what player development personnel actually do; how much they control the trajectory, if they truly guide the playstyles of the players or if that's mostly up to the player, and they simply give them training to improve the aspects of their game.

Well to give a historical example:

The Harlem Globetrotters specifically looked to acquire guys with gigantic hands and then the veterans would mentor the young guys on what could be done with them. It began in earnest with Goose Tatum in the '40s:



Went on to guys like Sweetwater Clifton:



And reached its entertainment zenith with Meadowlark Lemon:



And it definitely influenced the games of Wilt Chamberlain:



And Connie Hawkins:



Basically, what the Globetrotters realized is that you could do all sorts of fakes if you had hands big enough to simply not-let-go when you made the motion to pass or shoot, and that crowds thought this was very entertaining.

I believe Hawkins probably took it further in competitive basketball than anyone else. There are stories of him in the NBA faking a pass right, then faking a pass left, and then dribbling casually to the hoop after all the defenders dove to try to intercept non-existent passes.

[Heej]

More teams iso’d in the post Jordan era from a volume standing, but I’ve never seen anything suggesting that iso’s are less efficient now than they were, considering how easy it is to draw fouls and the space.

I’d love to see the efficiency numbers on isos, I’d guess they are more efficient now.

Surely you aren't talking about foul drawing now as if players of this era had it easier than Jordan in the 90s with regards to how refs whistled them? Because that would be hilarious. That man was an outlier among outliers on film when you see the type of ticky tack fouls he got awarded every game. At least 2018 Harden had the skills to bait people, Jordan literally walked into free throws.

And anyone with a cursory understanding of rotations can see how doubles, swarms, and stunts are able to be enacted from shorter distances and are more cleverly disguised in the modern era considering how just the existence of the illegal defense rule (even if it wasn't called every possession) had its own gravitational pull that you can clearly see had 90s players one step closer to their man in their most aggressive help packages compared to now.

But hey, when faced with the possibility of cognitive dissonance I too would simply make an impossible demand like "show me the numbers for all isos in the 90s vs now" instead of considering how rule changes, player quality, and coaching quality have made for a more competitive overall landscape in the modern era.

Yea, I'm talking about the era where we're pushing 50% on 3 point attempts, and dudes just have to pull their head back to get a foul. Not the outlier slashers getting foul calls. Not the guy with a picture of LeBron as his avatar coming to tell us we're all wrong for not thinking poor poor LeBron's era where you can't breath on anyone is soooo hard to draw fouls in :'( I'm the one with cognitive dissonance.

I'm not demanding anything, he came here and said isos are less efficient now than they were. We all know that's not true, you can assign whatever reason you want. We know what your excuse is for why some guys have less success doing it. Lets just not pretend they are less effficient, as opposed to less used. You're going off on some entire tangent about era competitiveness because your brain can't do anything but find a way to make an excuse for LeBron in a thread, it's literally the only time you comment or appear.

The same era that designs defenses entirely based on aggressively sagging off the weakest 3-point shooter and clogging up the lane in order to funnel shot attempts to said poor spacer. You act as if the increase in 3pt shooting isn't a direct response to how aggressively teams plug up the lane and nail now, which is laughable and disgustingly casual.

You can complain about guys throwing their heads back for fouls, Jordan literally was getting whistles in his favor from simple inadvertent contact from defenders in what would be considered legal guarding position in today's day and age. Film doesn't lie, you might hate how often guys draw fouls nowadays but you'd be hard pressed to find a collection of foul calls for any of these guys you're crying about that's anywhere near as shameful or illegitimate as the stuff Jordan was getting.

As far as isos being less efficient now, it absolutely is true relative to play type assortment and only a select few players can even sustainably keep it up as part of their offensive diet. The real money is off the glass and in early transition in today's league, along with proven help beaters that target specific pick and roll coverages which have been backed by hand tracking and data; and no amount of crying and attempting to delegitimize my points using pathetic ad hominems is ever going to change that.

Teams played more iso back in the 90s because rules were more conducive to do so (and didn't require high caliber offensive tuning the way modern teams do now to compete), it's actually not all that complicated

[The Servant]

He should have just iso'd left, maybe then he'd surpass Josh Giddey year 2 efficiency.

[MavsDirk41]

Surely you aren't talking about foul drawing now as if players of this era had it easier than Jordan in the 90s with regards to how refs whistled them? Because that would be hilarious. That man was an outlier among outliers on film when you see the type of ticky tack fouls he got awarded every game. At least 2018 Harden had the skills to bait people, Jordan literally walked into free throws.

And anyone with a cursory understanding of rotations can see how doubles, swarms, and stunts are able to be enacted from shorter distances and are more cleverly disguised in the modern era considering how just the existence of the illegal defense rule (even if it wasn't called every possession) had its own gravitational pull that you can clearly see had 90s players one step closer to their man in their most aggressive help packages compared to now.

But hey, when faced with the possibility of cognitive dissonance I too would simply make an impossible demand like "show me the numbers for all isos in the 90s vs now" instead of considering how rule changes, player quality, and coaching quality have made for a more competitive overall landscape in the modern era.

Yea, I'm talking about the era where we're pushing 50% on 3 point attempts, and dudes just have to pull their head back to get a foul. Not the outlier slashers getting foul calls. Not the guy with a picture of LeBron as his avatar coming to tell us we're all wrong for not thinking poor poor LeBron's era where you can't breath on anyone is soooo hard to draw fouls in :'( I'm the one with cognitive dissonance.

I'm not demanding anything, he came here and said isos are less efficient now than they were. We all know that's not true, you can assign whatever reason you want. We know what your excuse is for why some guys have less success doing it. Lets just not pretend they are less effficient, as opposed to less used. You're going off on some entire tangent about era competitiveness because your brain can't do anything but find a way to make an excuse for LeBron in a thread, it's literally the only time you comment or appear.

The same era that designs defenses entirely based on aggressively sagging off the weakest 3-point shooter and clogging up the lane in order to funnel shot attempts to said poor spacer. You act as if the increase in 3pt shooting isn't a direct response to how aggressively teams plug up the lane and nail now, which is laughable and disgustingly casual.

You can complain about guys throwing their heads back for fouls, Jordan literally was getting whistles in his favor from simple inadvertent contact from defenders in what would be considered legal guarding position in today's day and age. Film doesn't lie, you might hate how often guys draw fouls nowadays but you'd be hard pressed to find a collection of foul calls for any of these guys you're crying about that's anywhere near as shameful or illegitimate as the stuff Jordan was getting.

As far as isos being less efficient now, it absolutely is true relative to play type assortment and only a select few players can even sustainably keep it up as part of their offensive diet. The real money is off the glass and in early transition in today's league, along with proven help beaters that target specific pick and roll coverages which have been backed by hand tracking and data; and no amount of crying and attempting to delegitimize my points using pathetic ad hominems is ever going to change that.

Teams played more iso back in the 90s because rules were more conducive to do so (and didn't require high caliber offensive tuning the way modern teams do now to compete), it's actually not all that complicated

Take away Jokic and Embiid and what bigs have any resemblance of a true post game? Bigs like Porzingis, Lopez, Wemby, are perimeter players offensively while many other teams have centers who can only score on dunks and put backs (Gafford, Capela, Looney, Zubac, Claxton…). So basically the skilled big men of the past are gone and everything is perimeter based. Im no more impressed with watching a 7 footer shoot a 3 pointer than i am of a big like Ewing, Dream, Duncan, Shaq, McHale, Daugherty work in the post. Yea the middle isnt clogged anymore but watching a team shoot 7/24 from 3 isnt that exciting either. Transition offense has always been around lol.

You saying Jordan was getting shameful foul calls lol…you just hate Jordan because you are a James fanboy. Superstar players especially have been getting friendly whistles for decades pal. Watching the games dont lie either.

As far as isolation offense, certain players like Irving and SGA are efficient as hell at it but its almost a lost art. Not sure why anyone would think its a less efficient basketball move over someone hoisting a 3. Working the boards and early transition is just common basketball lol

[MavsDirk41]

He should have just iso'd left, maybe then he'd surpass Josh Giddey year 2 efficiency.

Did you even take the time to read the responses when you posted this before lol?

[NO-KG-AI]

Surely you aren't talking about foul drawing now as if players of this era had it easier than Jordan in the 90s with regards to how refs whistled them? Because that would be hilarious. That man was an outlier among outliers on film when you see the type of ticky tack fouls he got awarded every game. At least 2018 Harden had the skills to bait people, Jordan literally walked into free throws.

And anyone with a cursory understanding of rotations can see how doubles, swarms, and stunts are able to be enacted from shorter distances and are more cleverly disguised in the modern era considering how just the existence of the illegal defense rule (even if it wasn't called every possession) had its own gravitational pull that you can clearly see had 90s players one step closer to their man in their most aggressive help packages compared to now.

But hey, when faced with the possibility of cognitive dissonance I too would simply make an impossible demand like "show me the numbers for all isos in the 90s vs now" instead of considering how rule changes, player quality, and coaching quality have made for a more competitive overall landscape in the modern era.

Yea, I'm talking about the era where we're pushing 50% on 3 point attempts, and dudes just have to pull their head back to get a foul. Not the outlier slashers getting foul calls. Not the guy with a picture of LeBron as his avatar coming to tell us we're all wrong for not thinking poor poor LeBron's era where you can't breath on anyone is soooo hard to draw fouls in :'( I'm the one with cognitive dissonance.

I'm not demanding anything, he came here and said isos are less efficient now than they were. We all know that's not true, you can assign whatever reason you want. We know what your excuse is for why some guys have less success doing it. Lets just not pretend they are less effficient, as opposed to less used. You're going off on some entire tangent about era competitiveness because your brain can't do anything but find a way to make an excuse for LeBron in a thread, it's literally the only time you comment or appear.

The same era that designs defenses entirely based on aggressively sagging off the weakest 3-point shooter and clogging up the lane in order to funnel shot attempts to said poor spacer. You act as if the increase in 3pt shooting isn't a direct response to how aggressively teams plug up the lane and nail now, which is laughable and disgustingly casual.

You can complain about guys throwing their heads back for fouls, Jordan literally was getting whistles in his favor from simple inadvertent contact from defenders in what would be considered legal guarding position in today's day and age. Film doesn't lie, you might hate how often guys draw fouls nowadays but you'd be hard pressed to find a collection of foul calls for any of these guys you're crying about that's anywhere near as shameful or illegitimate as the stuff Jordan was getting.

As far as isos being less efficient now, it absolutely is true relative to play type assortment and only a select few players can even sustainably keep it up as part of their offensive diet. The real money is off the glass and in early transition in today's league, along with proven help beaters that target specific pick and roll coverages which have been backed by hand tracking and data; and no amount of crying and attempting to delegitimize my points using pathetic ad hominems is ever going to change that.

Teams played more iso back in the 90s because rules were more conducive to do so (and didn't require high caliber offensive tuning the way modern teams do now to compete), it's actually not all that complicated

The guys today aren't as good at isos as Jordan because they aren't as good. You can't show one measure that says isolations are less efficient overall than they were in the past. You're on here going off on a bunch of tangents and changing the subject because you're mad. You can't even guard people now. LeBron is scoring more effectively at almost 40 with a fraction of his ability than he was in a lot of his 20's. It's a joke, you can kid yourself all you want, it's never been easier to isolate, get to the rim, get easy fouls, or score the basketball than it is right now. It's an absolutely goofy take. The lane has never been less clogged, and the rim has never had less shot blockers around it. It's easier than ever to score at the basket, just a by product of better overall speed, shooting, and rule changes that have to be accounted for.

I'm not here to argue about how easy Jordan had it compared to guys now with someone that started watching basketball when LeBron left to go join the second best player in the league and another all NBA player. Spare me the lectures on how easy guys in the past had it.

You don't actually think it was easier as a whole. You just don't have an excuse for why Jordan could separate himself from other scorers in ways LeBron could not, in his era or any era.

[NO-KG-AI]

Not comparable. Isolation is a different beast with and without illegal defense.

But it was isolation with no good spacing and with no 3 defensive second.

All and all, it was a different game back then.

And MJ play style was just two-three dribbles and then he makes a shot or a pass. He was always quick with his decision making.

No defensive 3 second doesn’t really matter in an era of illegal defense because you have to be near a man and guard them. If you move your center out the paint, the other center can’t sit there. 3 seconds was introduced after illegal defense was taken out the game.

So we're going with, the 90's had great spacing because teams were pulling their centers out of the paint, so that defense had to guard them away from the basket?

Someone explain why the great centers were blocking 4 shots per game plz.

I swear y'all just invent reality lol.

[Heej]

Yea, I'm talking about the era where we're pushing 50% on 3 point attempts, and dudes just have to pull their head back to get a foul. Not the outlier slashers getting foul calls. Not the guy with a picture of LeBron as his avatar coming to tell us we're all wrong for not thinking poor poor LeBron's era where you can't breath on anyone is soooo hard to draw fouls in :'( I'm the one with cognitive dissonance.

I'm not demanding anything, he came here and said isos are less efficient now than they were. We all know that's not true, you can assign whatever reason you want. We know what your excuse is for why some guys have less success doing it. Lets just not pretend they are less effficient, as opposed to less used. You're going off on some entire tangent about era competitiveness because your brain can't do anything but find a way to make an excuse for LeBron in a thread, it's literally the only time you comment or appear.

The same era that designs defenses entirely based on aggressively sagging off the weakest 3-point shooter and clogging up the lane in order to funnel shot attempts to said poor spacer. You act as if the increase in 3pt shooting isn't a direct response to how aggressively teams plug up the lane and nail now, which is laughable and disgustingly casual.

You can complain about guys throwing their heads back for fouls, Jordan literally was getting whistles in his favor from simple inadvertent contact from defenders in what would be considered legal guarding position in today's day and age. Film doesn't lie, you might hate how often guys draw fouls nowadays but you'd be hard pressed to find a collection of foul calls for any of these guys you're crying about that's anywhere near as shameful or illegitimate as the stuff Jordan was getting.

As far as isos being less efficient now, it absolutely is true relative to play type assortment and only a select few players can even sustainably keep it up as part of their offensive diet. The real money is off the glass and in early transition in today's league, along with proven help beaters that target specific pick and roll coverages which have been backed by hand tracking and data; and no amount of crying and attempting to delegitimize my points using pathetic ad hominems is ever going to change that.

Teams played more iso back in the 90s because rules were more conducive to do so (and didn't require high caliber offensive tuning the way modern teams do now to compete), it's actually not all that complicated

The guys today aren't as good at isos as Jordan because they aren't as good. You can't show one measure that says isolations are less efficient overall than they were in the past. You're on here going off on a bunch of tangents and changing the subject because you're mad. You can't even guard people now. LeBron is scoring more effectively at almost 40 with a fraction of his ability than he was in a lot of his 20's. It's a joke, you can kid yourself all you want, it's never been easier to isolate, get to the rim, get easy fouls, or score the basketball than it is right now. It's an absolutely goofy take. The lane has never been less clogged, and the rim has never had less shot blockers around it. It's easier than ever to score at the basket, just a by product of better overall speed, shooting, and rule changes that have to be accounted for.

I'm not here to argue about how easy Jordan had it compared to guys now with someone that started watching basketball when LeBron left to go join the second best player in the league and another all NBA player. Spare me the lectures on how easy guys in the past had it.

You don't actually think it was easier as a whole. You just don't have an excuse for why Jordan could separate himself from other scorers in ways LeBron could not, in his era or any era.

The fact that you're conflating the dead ball era and late 2000s which had zone rules to the 90s while continuing to cry and spew insecure pathetic ad hominems says all we need to know regarding the authenticity of this debate. Btw scoring is higher because offenses have evolved to become more sophisticated and reactive to combat overloaded paint and nail schemes that are the antithesis to sluggish iso plays. But it seems few understand zone rules and the effect is has on isolation efficiency relative to the full spectrum of playtypes

[bledredwine]

But it was isolation with no good spacing and with no 3 defensive second.

All and all, it was a different game back then.

And MJ play style was just two-three dribbles and then he makes a shot or a pass. He was always quick with his decision making.

No defensive 3 second doesn’t really matter in an era of illegal defense because you have to be near a man and guard them. If you move your center out the paint, the other center can’t sit there. 3 seconds was introduced after illegal defense was taken out the game.

So we're going with, the 90's had great spacing because teams were pulling their centers out of the paint, so that defense had to guard them away from the basket?

Someone explain why the great centers were blocking 4 shots per game plz.

I swear y'all just invent reality lol.

It’s a bit maddening really. I think it’s because the lebron ship is sailing and everyone’s making excuses.

[theforumblue]

I believe Hawkins probably took it further in competitive basketball than anyone else. There are stories of him in the NBA faking a pass right, then faking a pass left, and then dribbling casually to the hoop after all the defenders dove to try to intercept non-existent passes.

and now we got wemby doing this stuff.

Watch on YouTube

[ForeverTFC]

No defensive 3 second doesn’t really matter in an era of illegal defense because you have to be near a man and guard them. If you move your center out the paint, the other center can’t sit there. 3 seconds was introduced after illegal defense was taken out the game.

So we're going with, the 90's had great spacing because teams were pulling their centers out of the paint, so that defense had to guard them away from the basket?

Someone explain why the great centers were blocking 4 shots per game plz.

I swear y'all just invent reality lol.

It’s a bit maddening really. I think it’s because the lebron ship is sailing and everyone’s making excuses.

I'm a bit confused here. Are you guys trying to tell me it's not easier to score in isolation with illegal defense in effect?

Watch on YouTube

Jordan himself said removing illegal defense would have neutered his game. Are the good folks at the Chicago Tribute Lebron Stans as well?

The subject was defense in the NBA, and Michael Jordan was speaking, although more about offense, especially his. We know few defenses could do anything about that.

But there was one that might be bothersome, the zone defense. It was the topic du jour at last month’s All-Star Game, and Jordan was making an impassioned plea before the competition committee that had gathered to consider rules changes to enliven the NBA game. Jordan spoke passionately. If teams were able to play zone defenses, he said, he never would have had the career he did.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/2001/04/01/if-zone-defenses-come-in-stars-may-go-out/

[mysticOscar]

So we're going with, the 90's had great spacing because teams were pulling their centers out of the paint, so that defense had to guard them away from the basket?

Someone explain why the great centers were blocking 4 shots per game plz.

I swear y'all just invent reality lol.

It’s a bit maddening really. I think it’s because the lebron ship is sailing and everyone’s making excuses.

I'm a bit confused here. Are you guys trying to tell me it's not easier to score in isolation with illegal defense in effect?

Watch on YouTube

Jordan himself said removing illegal defense would have neutered his game. Are the good folks at the Chicago Tribute Lebron Stans as well?

The subject was defense in the NBA, and Michael Jordan was speaking, although more about offense, especially his. We know few defenses could do anything about that.

But there was one that might be bothersome, the zone defense. It was the topic du jour at last month’s All-Star Game, and Jordan was making an impassioned plea before the competition committee that had gathered to consider rules changes to enliven the NBA game. Jordan spoke passionately. If teams were able to play zone defenses, he said, he never would have had the career he did.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/2001/04/01/if-zone-defenses-come-in-stars-may-go-out/

There are so much misunderstanding about elimination of illegal defense myth that never seems to go away.

Elimination of illegal defense primarily impacts post isolation because you can now setup defensive schemes to double a post player WITHOUT the ball and since it's in the paint, it's not much distance to recover in defense.

People that seems to oblivious on the impact of this rule change brings this up in context to perimeter offense thinking that its primary negative impact is on perimeter isolation.

Why would it?

You think it's a good idea to send help to a perimeter player or a certain spot at the top or near the arc that's away from the ball consistently? Any NBA level teams knows how to exploit that because it leaves so much gap in the defense that is hard to recover from.

Also people that love to bring this topic up seem to be oblivious that teams during the illegal defense used to sag off there man consistantly and were only called if it was obvious they were doubling off the ball or if a defender in the paint opposing player runs off to the arc and they remained in the paint (which again was not common).

MJ definatley had cause of concern when it was proposed, because it could take away some of the post oriented schemes that Bulls employed....but this is important, the league along with the elimination of illegal defense also introduced the defensive 3 seconds which actually helped perimeter offense since it encouraged in opening up the paint.

Zone defense gets rarely used today...it'd often used more to give an opponent something different to look at. If it was so effective at stifling perimeter offense....it would be used most of the time...BUT it's not...and that tells you a lot.

[ForeverTFC]

It’s a bit maddening really. I think it’s because the lebron ship is sailing and everyone’s making excuses.

I'm a bit confused here. Are you guys trying to tell me it's not easier to score in isolation with illegal defense in effect?

Watch on YouTube

Jordan himself said removing illegal defense would have neutered his game. Are the good folks at the Chicago Tribute Lebron Stans as well?

The subject was defense in the NBA, and Michael Jordan was speaking, although more about offense, especially his. We know few defenses could do anything about that.

But there was one that might be bothersome, the zone defense. It was the topic du jour at last month’s All-Star Game, and Jordan was making an impassioned plea before the competition committee that had gathered to consider rules changes to enliven the NBA game. Jordan spoke passionately. If teams were able to play zone defenses, he said, he never would have had the career he did.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/2001/04/01/if-zone-defenses-come-in-stars-may-go-out/

Zone defense gets rarely used today...it'd often used more to give an opponent something different to look at. If it was so effective at stifling perimeter offense....it would be used most of the time...BUT it's not...and that tells you a lot.

I’m just going to focus on on this last sentence. The idea that taking away illegal defense was just so you can play zone as you’ve identified it is so laughably wrong. Many aspects of the modern day defense are built on zone principles. Did you even watch the video I posted?

[mysticOscar]

I'm a bit confused here. Are you guys trying to tell me it's not easier to score in isolation with illegal defense in effect?

Watch on YouTube

Jordan himself said removing illegal defense would have neutered his game. Are the good folks at the Chicago Tribute Lebron Stans as well?

https://www.chicagotribune.com/2001/04/01/if-zone-defenses-come-in-stars-may-go-out/

Zone defense gets rarely used today...it'd often used more to give an opponent something different to look at. If it was so effective at stifling perimeter offense....it would be used most of the time...BUT it's not...and that tells you a lot.

I’m just going to focus on on this last sentence. The idea that taking away illegal defense was just so you can play zone as you’ve identified it is so laughably wrong. Many aspects of the modern day defense are built on zone principles. Did you even watch the video I posted?

I didn't have to. I've already seen many of these misguided YT clips that were used by many Kobe stans back in the day and it just doesn't pass the test.

Here are some clips of how teams defended Jordan's drives:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Lets look at Kobe stats prior and post the elimination of illegal defense era:

Notice where his most effecient seasons were?

Season TS%
1996-97 54.4%. |
1997-98 54.8%. |
1998-99 54.9%. |<-----Illegal Defense Era
1999-00 54.6%. |
2000-01 55.2%. |
2001-02 54.4%
2002-03 55.0%.
2003-04 55.1%
2004-05 56.3%
2005-06 55.9%
2006-07 58.0%
2007-08 57.6%
2008-09 56.1%

Most of the perimeter players saw the same type of effeciency gains and the overall league also saw the effeciency gains occuring (particularly after '04/05 season cause of the elimination of handcheck). Saying Kobe and other perimieter players have it tougher just doesnt hold up

if this is not enough for you, i can also provide you statements from the league on the rule changes applied after MJ retired that states they want the league to be easier for perimeter players.