Minnesota ownership change in jeopardy?

[brutalitops]

Every wolves source which isn't Woj(Owners mouth piece) seems to say sellers remorse

Hilarious that Woj still hasn’t said anything since and about Arod/Lore’s public response.

You have people who are obviously mouthpieces/sources are owners. IE-woj. And that's fine. Nothing against Woj, he obviously can't be abusing Taylor

I would take Krawcyznski (Wolves fandom can only hold onto we have elite commentators and reporters) saying it's down to interpretation of the contract.

[Johnny Bball]

Says what? That he’s right?

Taylor even said publicly that if the team wasn’t worth so much, he might not demand payment on time. No one is hiding anything.

Hiding? What?

And you beleive what Taylor is saying that they couldn't come up with the money though...even though they they have pretty likely doubled their initial investments? And are ignoring what the buyers are saying? Ok then. You beleive that.

"We are disappointed with Glen Taylor's public statement today. We have fulfilled our obligations, have all necessary funding and are fully committed to closing our purchase of the team as soon as the NBA completes its approval process. Glen Taylor's statement is an unfortunate case of seller's remorse that is short sighted and disruptive to the team and the fans during a historic winning season."

And he wasn't right and is now likely trying to do anything to fix it, legally binding or not.

I feel like you haven’t followed this very closely.

ARod and Lore’s financial ability to complete this deal was questioned by the industry, right from the start. Instead of a straight sale, they needed to do a multiyear buy in because they couldn’t afford the upfront $1.5 billion. On each of their previous 20% payments, they missed the deadline and required an extension to raise the money. On the second payment, they literally had to sell some of their Wolves shares to a third investor (google inventor) to reach the 20%! This time, for the 40%, they had an investor (Carlyle Group) literally back out on them in obviously a very sweet deal. They quickly asked another investor but who knows? Moreover, NBA rules require any owner to be able to buy a minimum percent of the organization, so a team isn’t owned by 1000’s of owners. Lore has that kind of money, but for the last year, people have wondered if ARod could get there.

So do I believe that the owners couldn’t have come up with the money? Clearly. If they could, they would have paid on time according to the contract, and not risked complications from having to ask for yet another extension.

And I feel like you didn't understand my point at all.

Can't come up with the money that could pay anyone back up to double their money almost immediately if they we desperate enoough to offer it and turn around and sell again... Riiiight.

Just need to look at the obvious and the motivations here, then their words, and its easy to see who is lying.

[Johnny Bball]

Read on Twitter

Looks like Taylor has been leaking the "can't front the money" and missed deadline speech. Looking at those documents that Lore/Arod get an automatic 90 days extension.

Every wolves source which isn't Woj(Owners mouth piece) seems to say sellers remorse

Well, I am truly shocked. Or... this is what has happened the entire time.

[Shaka_Zulu]

We are **** cursed, even when having best season in 20 years, some embarrassing and soul crushing misshap must occur..

More like the owner has had a team that has been bad for many years and just as he sells they get good.

Can't blame the guy for wanting the team back, he should get to enjoy the success too.

He is a terrible owner, hands off one, but consistently for 30 years hired incompetent people, and done **** to make the team worse (sell off picks 9 times, Joe Smith debacle, Kahn, McHale, Rambis, Thibs as GM, Rosas good drafter but a work place disaster case etc).


The reason we good lately is because we are selling. Tim Connelly who was hand picked by Lore and A rod, two jokers if they not finishing the deal in time, but added competence and fresh energy and ideas to the organisation since they got involved.




I'm not siding with anyone if their payment is in question, but **** this terrible owner, it sucks to be stuck with this weasel again. He is routinely and insanely bad influence on the organisation for past 30 years. We needed a fresh new start but that's not happening anymore.

[wco81]

Didn’t Taylor accept a lower price because they promised to keep the team in Minneapolis?

Presumably also why they had years to complete the purchase.

No other teams were purchased on the installment plan.

If they had 2-3 years to finish the deal and they couldn’t, hard to fault Taylor for backing out.

[brutalitops]

Didn’t Taylor accept a lower price because they promised to keep the team in Minneapolis?

Presumably also why they had years to complete the purchase.

No other teams were purchased on the installment plan.

If they had 2-3 years to finish the deal and they couldn’t, hard to fault Taylor for backing out.

They could, it was agreed they would buy 20% back in 2021, Another stake at a later date then a majority at a certain date

They announced they would buy the remaining part, the NBA knocked back the deal, They then got another group to invest with them, But Taylor is saying because the NBA knocked back the original investors, the deal is off, However the contract states that if a new group joins, they have 90 days for the NBA to approve/knock back and it will continue the closure of purchase.

Taylor announced hes not selling, has put out an interview stating the valuation is higher now and would be silly. So there has obviously been some issue thats boiled over in the past 1-2 years of the process which Taylor has backed out now, Whether its the valuation going up 50% or not who knows? But Lore has always had the timetable of years. They didnt have "2/3" years to buy them, They had a timetable of when they would purchase certain % of the team. It looks like the NBA knocked back the investors backing Lore/A-rod on the last call and the investors backed out, Lore/Arod scrambled for new investors, Got them on board and have argued they have a 90 day clause if this happened, however Taylor is saying No

[FeatheryTouch]

Blessing in disguise for Wolves fans.

I know Glen Taylor sucks, but Lore and Rodriguez obviously didn't have their **** together and more importantly didn't have deep enough pockets to follow through on their commitments. By all acounts it was a shaky deal financially all along.

Minnesota would have turned into a poverty franchise for a generation with cash-strapped Lore and Rodriguez as primary owners(i.e. no KAT resign, no going into the luxury tax, no operating losses to fund a contender, no arena upgrades, Ant probably walks after a few years).

This is a win for the Wolves(and Taylor of course, franchise prices continue to rise) assuming they can find a buyer with deeper pockets that isn't a complete asshat.

[brutalitops]

Blessing in disguise for Wolves fans.

I know Glen Taylor sucks, but Lore and Rodriguez obviously didn't have their **** together and more importantly didn't have deep enough pockets to follow through on their commitments. By all acounts it was a shaky deal financially all along.

Minnesota would have turned into a poverty franchise for a generation with cash-strapped Lore and Rodriguez as primary owners(i.e. no KAT resign, no going into the luxury tax, no operating losses to fund a contender, no arena upgrades, Ant probably walks after a few years).

This is a win for the Wolves(and Taylor of course, franchise prices continue to rise) assuming they can find a buyer with deeper pockets that isn't a complete asshat.

And in Glen Taylors "Interview" today about saying the deal is off, has also said they can't continue to pay a luxury tax bill this high and hard decisions have to be made, IE "Im the owner, in going to cut salary this off season"

Were ****. At least Arod/Lore had financial backers happy to buy in and spend. Taylor will not. This isn't a "Blessing in disguise" this is horrid for us

[firedavidkahn]

Blessing in disguise for Wolves fans.

I know Glen Taylor sucks, but Lore and Rodriguez obviously didn't have their **** together and more importantly didn't have deep enough pockets to follow through on their commitments. By all acounts it was a shaky deal financially all along.

Minnesota would have turned into a poverty franchise for a generation with cash-strapped Lore and Rodriguez as primary owners(i.e. no KAT resign, no going into the luxury tax, no operating losses to fund a contender, no arena upgrades, Ant probably walks after a few years).

This is a win for the Wolves(and Taylor of course, franchise prices continue to rise) assuming they can find a buyer with deeper pockets that isn't a complete asshat.

And in Glen Taylors "Interview" today about saying the deal is off, has also said they can't continue to pay a luxury tax bill this high and hard decisions have to be made, IE "Im the owner, in going to cut salary this off season"

Were ****. At least Arod/Lore had financial backers happy to buy in and spend. Taylor will not. This isn't a "Blessing in disguise" this is horrid for us

Only long term Wolves fans truly understand what this news means.



Whatever, I'm just going to enjoy Ant while we got him

[FinnTheHuman]

Blessing in disguise for Wolves fans.

I know Glen Taylor sucks, but Lore and Rodriguez obviously didn't have their **** together and more importantly didn't have deep enough pockets to follow through on their commitments. By all acounts it was a shaky deal financially all along.

Minnesota would have turned into a poverty franchise for a generation with cash-strapped Lore and Rodriguez as primary owners(i.e. no KAT resign, no going into the luxury tax, no operating losses to fund a contender, no arena upgrades, Ant probably walks after a few years).

This is a win for the Wolves(and Taylor of course, franchise prices continue to rise) assuming they can find a buyer with deeper pockets that isn't a complete asshat.

Nah, Taylor is a terrible owner. Hires awfully at key positions, probably based on whether they're a type of man his wife likes at dinner, not based on trying to maximise the chance of the team coming out on top. Lore and Rodriguez may be poor, but they understand they'll make more money if they spend, so they'll find the investors to back them up, that's been the case so far.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Blessing in disguise for Wolves fans.

I know Glen Taylor sucks, but Lore and Rodriguez obviously didn't have their **** together and more importantly didn't have deep enough pockets to follow through on their commitments. By all acounts it was a shaky deal financially all along.

Minnesota would have turned into a poverty franchise for a generation with cash-strapped Lore and Rodriguez as primary owners(i.e. no KAT resign, no going into the luxury tax, no operating losses to fund a contender, no arena upgrades, Ant probably walks after a few years).

This is a win for the Wolves(and Taylor of course, franchise prices continue to rise) assuming they can find a buyer with deeper pockets that isn't a complete asshat.

And in Glen Taylors "Interview" today about saying the deal is off, has also said they can't continue to pay a luxury tax bill this high and hard decisions have to be made, IE "Im the owner, in going to cut salary this off season"

Were ****. At least Arod/Lore had financial backers happy to buy in and spend. Taylor will not. This isn't a "Blessing in disguise" this is horrid for us

There’s no world where private equity backers were going to pay luxury tax. And they would/will take any cash out of the business as their prime return.

I do understand the frustrations but I actually think the chances of tax are higher with Taylor owning the team. I think Arod/Lore might be talking a big game there but they don’t have the cash.

[Shaka_Zulu]

And in Glen Taylors "Interview" today about saying the deal is off, has also said they can't continue to pay a luxury tax bill this high and hard decisions have to be made, IE "Im the owner, in going to cut salary this off season"

Were ****. At least Arod/Lore had financial backers happy to buy in and spend. Taylor will not. This isn't a "Blessing in disguise" this is horrid for us

That bit in the bold, pls say it ain't soo


https://youtu.be/XO93Edk7xtw?si=rZ32iAXnWvEqoHNX

[shrink]

https://nypost.com/2024/03/28/sports/marc-lore-depended-too-much-on-alex-rodriguez-for-timberwolves-sources/

Timberwolves owner Glen Taylor on Thursday terminated the sale, ending Lore and A-Rod’s chances of buying a majority stake in the team.

Lore was willing to invest a relatively little amount of money, but wanted A-Rod, who had put in a lot less than Lore, to catch up in this new round of financing to a level much closer to what he had invested, sources with direct knowledge of the situation said.

The initial plan was Lore and A-Rod would invest roughly equally in the team.

That meant A-Rod needed to raise most of the money for this next investment round and he tried to for months.

He and Lore agreed to buy the Timberwolves in a three-step process in 2021 at a $1.5 billion valuation. They together have bought 40 percent of the team in two stages.

A-Rod, who is believed to be worth much less than Lore, needed to find the money for this next payment largely by himself, sources with direct knowledge of the situation said.

A-Rod was trying to sell interests in the new round of financing not at his $1.5 billion valuation but at a valuation of more than $2 billion, sources with close knowledge of the situation said.

A-Rod would have pocketed the difference between his buy-in price of $1.5 billion and the valuation at which he sold the stakes, sources close to the situation said.

Taylor owns 60% (with minority partners?)
Lore owns 27%
ARod owns 9%
Eric Schmidt (Google) owns 4% after ARod got him to front part of his money at the last deadline

ARod is a rich man, but, like Garnett, he is not in the super-rich fishing pond that buys sports franchises these days. It seems to me here, ARod couldn’t get his share (though Lore would have struggled too, as the article says he has most of his liquid wealth locked into his new food venture, Wonder). So ARod screwed Lore, ARod and Lore screwed Taylor, and now Taylor is screwing them back by canceling the rest of the sale. Fun guys.

[shrink]

And in Glen Taylors "Interview" today about saying the deal is off, has also said they can't continue to pay a luxury tax bill this high and hard decisions have to be made, IE "Im the owner, in going to cut salary this off season"

We’re ****. At least Arod/Lore had financial backers happy to buy in and spend. Taylor will not. This isn't a "Blessing in disguise" this is horrid for us

Here’s the quote

“I think we’ll have the challenge of keeping this team together, because we have a lot of really good, high-paid players, and that’s going to be a challenge,” Taylor said. “I think the arena is a long-term, big plan, and you’d have to get people on it. So I still have all the same … opportunities you look at either way in the future, and I’ve always been willing to take on the opportunities.”

Could this be trying to blackmail the public to help finance a new arena? Yesterday when asked about the arena, he said he thought it was fine, but he said he knows other stakeholders don’t agree. Maybe this is wishful thinking, but it seems to me he’s making the case, “Well, I really don’t care, but if you want the team to keep winning, and me (and my partners) to pay lux taxes, the city better help us pay for a new arena!”

With the NBA’s 2nd oldest arena, the Wolves last year had $100 mil less revenues than the AVERAGE team. I would imagine with a new arena, a winning team, and an exciting Anthony Edwards, the team could at least have average NBA revenues, and $100 mil exceeds the lux taxes they would pay.

Finally, ARod and Lore might want to pay lux, but I’m not sure they are capable, if they couldn’t even afford to buy the team in 2021, and have struggled at every deadline to raise the money, paying loans comes before paying lux taxes. I thought that they would need to keep selling off their percentages of the franchise to raise the capital until a new stadium was built.

EDIT: Plus, I don’t think the Wolves were going to be able to afford to bring back Kyle Anderson anyway, so regardless of ownership, they probably weren’t “keeping the team together.” The bigger question here is does that mean Towns will be on the market?

[F Saunders]

Finally, ARod and Lore might want to pay lux, but I’m not sure they are capable, if they couldn’t even afford to buy the team in 2021, and have struggled at every deadline to raise the money, paying loans comes before paying lux taxes. I thought that they would need to keep selling off their percentages of the franchise to raise the capital until a new stadium was built.

I did just hear an interesting comment from Marnie Gellner (Wolves TV/Sideline reporter) saying that she'd ask Jon Krawczynski about these struggles to raise money/hit deadlines throughout the past two years, and Jon had no idea where these rumors were coming from. According to Jon, every deadline was hit and the full payments were made. Whenever these stories would come up he didn't know how or why these stories/claims were being reported.

Hoping this link works, but Marnie's comment can be heard below (around the 40:30 to 41:00 minute mark)
https://open.spotify.com/episode/7CO48ACWvUVX0BKyUOXcdn

[shrink]

ARod and Lore didn’t have the funds to buy the franchise, even at the bargain $1.5 bil price. So they said they needed two year …

Read on Twitter

Well, that became three years, and they still have only 40% (actually 36%) bought. All of this is avoided if they just pay on time.


The first payment needed an extension (getting hard to find links)

Here’s the extension for the second payment

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Daily/Morning-Buzz/2023/02/06/minnesota-timberwolves-alex-rodriguez-marc-lore-delayed-payment.aspx

https://www.twincities.com/2023/02/04/charley-walters-lore-rodriguez-get-permission-to-delay-payment-for-timberwolves/

https://www.si.com/fannation/bringmethesports/timberwolves/report-marc-lore-alex-rodriguez-make-second-290-million-payment-for-timberwolves-lynx

This third payment is a delay from the Feb 8 deadline

https://www.twincities.com/2023/02/04/charley-walters-lore-rodriguez-get-permission-to-delay-payment-for-timberwolves/

Marnie is an employee of the Wolves, and Jon has even recently been hired on to do broadcasting after games too - both in conjunction with Fox Sports. It sounds to me they are playing the “I do not recall” game and trying to keep their head down. They don’t want to take sides and potentially lose their job (Jon needs access as a reporter) offending their new boss, whoever the courts decide he may be. It’s weird though, right?

[wco81]

Vikings new stadium got a lot of public money right?

But Wolves attendance has only gone up when they've got a good team.

In 2022, they averaged 16,028 or 84.5% of capacity. #21 in the league.

In 2023, they averaged 16,768 or 88.4% capacity for #27 in the league.

In 2024 so far, they've averaged 18,024. Doesn't say what percent of capacity but they're at #18 in the league for attendance in 35 games.

https://www.espn.com/nba/attendance

Even if they got a new arena, which would mean much higher prices, are they going to be able to get in the upper half of the league for home attendance?

According to this list, Minneapolis is #13 in market size in the NBA. Yet attendance-wise, they're well below smaller markets.

https://hoop-social.com/nba-team-market-size-rankings/

For instance, Cavs are #8 in average attendance but only #18 in market size.

Miami is #4 in average attendance this season but only #17 in market size.

Other teams averaging greater attendance despite being in smaller markets include the Blazers, Jazz, Magic and Spurs.

Of course this doesn't tell the whole story of revenues. Maybe Wolves are killing it in local TV ratings so they are making more in total revenues, which would include things like jerseys and other merchandise.

Warriors are only averaging 18,064 in attendance at #15 in the league. But that is 100% of capacity at the Chase Center and they probably have one of the highest average ticket prices in the league, not to mention a modern arena with more luxury boxes and the ability to host a lot of concerts, which generate them a lot of non basketball revenues that they don't have to share with the league.

Suns are in a bigger market than the Wolves but not much bigger as they're #12 in market size. Their attendance sucks though at #25 in the league, just over 17k a game. Yet they commanded a $3 billion valuation?

But it's suppose to be a very attractive media market and players like the hot weather supposedly.

Can the Wolves attract more fans and fans willing to pay much higher prices for a new arena if they're able to sustain this winning team for a few more years?

Or maybe Minneapolis isn't as strong an NBA city as one hopes. I recall when KG signed his $100 million contract, an unimaginable figure at the time, there was a sports economist who said the Wolves had no choice, because if KG walked, the team might not be able to stay in the city, maybe either have to move or be dissolved.

Vikings are huge there but how do the Wolves compare for fan support and passion compared to the Wild or college sports? Vikings are facing some uncertainty and Wolves are having their best season in 20 years or maybe their best season ever.

Yet the support seems tepid.

The missing pieces on the team's economics would be average ticket prices, merchandising sales and local TV revenues. Minneapolis area is suppose have a high concentration of college-educated, high-income earners. But they obviously don't have the passion of Spurs fans, who obviously have more reasons to be loyal because of their titles.

[shrink]

Nice post, wco. To answer your questions:

In the Twin Cities, fandom goes: 1. Vikings, 2. Everybody else. And unlike many cities, Minneapolis has all pro four sports (hockey is big here) and a Big Ten university right downtown, with all the college sports. With so many options, sports fans tend to follow the winning teams, which until lately, hasn’t been the Wolves. Their attendance for home games has been 100% capacity (though they only recently talked about re-opening blocked off seating). Traditionally Timberwolves attendance booms when they have a winner.

The Vikings were able to get voters to approve a big chunk for a new arena, but for other sports, these public levies have been hit or miss. The Twins kept having to go back to the public year after year before they got Target Field, the city of Saint Paul had to take it on themselves to build a new hockey arena to get the Wild. And the Wolves haven’t had a new arena since they were founded. Last year they averaged $100 mil less than the AVERAGE nba team.

Worse, MIN knows the sting of losing a franchise to another city. They lost the Northstars to Dallas, and the Timberwolves would have been sold to New Orleans decades ago if Glen Taylor hadn’t agreed to buy the team with other local investors (who he covered for, when many backed out when it was time to write the checks). Taylor has secretly, and occasionally publicly, been trying to sell the team for the better part of the last two decades, but to his credit, has turned down better offers because the new owners wouldn’t promise to keep the team in Minnesota.

The bottom line here is that the team can generate revenues, but only if they win. Right now they have a winning team, an exciting star in Edwards, and hopefully they can get some public funding for a new arena. But Taylor’s failings for decades has made local fans longing for new hope. ARod and Lore represent that hope, but it sounds like they don’t have the finances. I hope that the team will continue to rise in popularity as the team looks better and better, regardless of who the owner is.

[RiRuHoops]

But on the flipside, why can't this team ever be normal?

Ant for Ben Simmons, who says no ?

Your mom should have said NO to your dad those years ago.

[thinktank]

Blessing in disguise for Wolves fans.

I know Glen Taylor sucks, but Lore and Rodriguez obviously didn't have their **** together and more importantly didn't have deep enough pockets to follow through on their commitments. By all acounts it was a shaky deal financially all along.

Minnesota would have turned into a poverty franchise for a generation with cash-strapped Lore and Rodriguez as primary owners(i.e. no KAT resign, no going into the luxury tax, no operating losses to fund a contender, no arena upgrades, Ant probably walks after a few years).

This is a win for the Wolves(and Taylor of course, franchise prices continue to rise) assuming they can find a buyer with deeper pockets that isn't a complete asshat.

And in Glen Taylors "Interview" today about saying the deal is off, has also said they can't continue to pay a luxury tax bill this high and hard decisions have to be made, IE "Im the owner, in going to cut salary this off season"

Were ****. At least Arod/Lore had financial backers happy to buy in and spend. Taylor will not. This isn't a "Blessing in disguise" this is horrid for us

There’s no world where private equity backers were going to pay luxury tax. And they would/will take any cash out of the business as their prime return.

I do understand the frustrations but I actually think the chances of tax are higher with Taylor owning the team. I think Arod/Lore might be talking a big game there but they don’t have the cash.

I love it when realgm internet cowboys (being kind) opine with 100% confidence on what “private equity backers” (lol) will do.

Come back to reality. You’re posting here precisely because you don’t know these things.

Btw, I’m seeing reports that Lore (4 billion) is worth more than Taylor (2.5 billion).

Finally, doesn’t every team that goes into the luxury tax have “private equity backers”? I would think so.