Lowest possible ranking for Lebron

[SportsGuru08]

Except he is a 4x champion. And 4x finals MVP. This proves without a doubt he can lead a time to a championship time and time again.

And a 6-time loser, with most of those losses being utterly one-sided. A bigger reason he kept getting there was because of how poor his own conference was.

Again, he carried his team to the finals 10x (8 consecutive years) and won 4x. Lebron gets you in the finals automatically each year at minimum.

Until he was in the Western Conference, where his only such appearance came after a 4-month break where his team was the only one allowed to practice before play resumed and they didn't have to travel between games.

[Hellcrooner]

50.
Because **** happens.
You can say the same for any other goat candidate.
yes including Air Gatorade,.

[Mephariel]

And a 6-time loser, with most of those losses being utterly one-sided. A bigger reason he kept getting there was because of how poor his own conference was.

Until he was in the Western Conference, where his only such appearance came after a 4-month break where his team was the only one allowed to practice before play resumed and they didn't have to travel between games.

And Jordan was a 9-time loser right? He played 15 years and only won 6. What is the difference between losing in the playoffs and the finals?

And yeah you can make as many excuses as you want, but Lebron won a championship in 2 different conferences and 3 different teams. Nothing you say can change that. Again, 4x champion, 4x finals MVP, and 4x MVP. He was leader on every level.

[RHODEY]

I think the following guys have cases over Lebron (in no particular order):

Jordan
Russell
Kareem
Wilt
Magic
Bird

Therefore, my lowest possible ranking for Lebron is 7th all time.

Kobe,Duncan,Hakeem were all better..probably Curry too. Isaiah Thomas is about dead even , but gets the nod on leader ship, toughness and courage on the big moment. So basically LeBron is outside of the top10 at best. Recency bias , fake attendance accolades and ,scripted media narratives don't fool those who saw the greats play.

[RHODEY]

Until he was in the Western Conference, where his only such appearance came after a 4-month break where his team was the only one allowed to practice before play resumed and they didn't have to travel between games.

And Jordan was a 9-time loser right? He played 15 years and only won 6. What is the difference between losing in the playoffs and the finals?

And yeah you can make as many excuses as you want, but Lebron won a championship in 2 different conferences and 3 different teams. Nothing you say can change that. Again, 4x champion, 4x finals MVP, and 4x MVP. He was leader on every level.

Winning on deck stacked teams of his choosing is not a good thing.

[SportsGuru08]

Until he was in the Western Conference, where his only such appearance came after a 4-month break where his team was the only one allowed to practice before play resumed and they didn't have to travel between games.

And Jordan was a 9-time loser right? He played 15 years and only won 6. What is the difference between losing in the playoffs and the finals?

And yeah you can make as many excuses as you want, but Lebron won a championship in 2 different conferences and 3 different teams. Nothing you say can change that. Again, 4x champion, 4x finals MVP, and 4x MVP. He was leader on every level.

Which is better; going somewhere 6 times and winning it on every trip or going there 10 times and succeding less than half the time and having fewer achievements than the guy who went there fewer times?

Make as many excuses as you want; he's a 6-time Finals loser.

[Mephariel]

Until he was in the Western Conference, where his only such appearance came after a 4-month break where his team was the only one allowed to practice before play resumed and they didn't have to travel between games.

And Jordan was a 9-time loser right? He played 15 years and only won 6. What is the difference between losing in the playoffs and the finals?

And yeah you can make as many excuses as you want, but Lebron won a championship in 2 different conferences and 3 different teams. Nothing you say can change that. Again, 4x champion, 4x finals MVP, and 4x MVP. He was leader on every level.

Winning on deck stacked teams of his choosing is not a good thing.

Except he beat the golden state warrior who won 67 games with Kyrie Irving as the #2. He has proven he doesn't need a stack them. He also carried his teams to 8 consecutive finals and been in the finals 10 times, and every Cavs fan would tell you, those were not stacked teams. Also, he won a championship with AD as a #2. If you think that should be discredited, then Kobe only has 2 championship since he played with Shaq, who is universally known to be greater than AD. Also, Kareem and Magic have zero championship since they played together and they are both arguably top 5 players of all time, and AD wasn't.

So keep making excuses. Lebron won 4x championship and has 4x finals MVP. Nothing will change that.

[Mephariel]

Until he was in the Western Conference, where his only such appearance came after a 4-month break where his team was the only one allowed to practice before play resumed and they didn't have to travel between games.

And Jordan was a 9-time loser right? He played 15 years and only won 6. What is the difference between losing in the playoffs and the finals?

And yeah you can make as many excuses as you want, but Lebron won a championship in 2 different conferences and 3 different teams. Nothing you say can change that. Again, 4x champion, 4x finals MVP, and 4x MVP. He was leader on every level.

Which is better; going somewhere 6 times and winning it on every trip or going there 10 times and succeding less than half the time and having fewer achievements than the guy who went there fewer times?

Make as many excuses as you want; he's a 6-time Finals loser.

And Jordan was worse. He was a 9-time loser who didn't even made the finals. And Kareem was a 14 time loser.

Jordan is better than Lebron because he has 6x rings. I agree. But the the fact that Lebron made the finals 10x and 8 consecutive is definitely a feather in his cap. Only a Lebron hater would think otherwise. Again, 4x champion, 4x finals MVP, and 10 finals. Easily top 3.

[cbosh4mvp]

#1 all-time.

This just shows your bias and the fact that you are not a serious poster. Majority don't have James as as #1, which proves he already has a case for lower than 1.

If "most people" vote for Trump will he be any less of a terrible President? Who cares what most prople think. Once most people thought the world was flat.

Lol your response to the original post is worse than the original post. You probably find Biden a good president just like you find LBJ as #1.

[One_and_Done]

This just shows your bias and the fact that you are not a serious poster. Majority don't have James as as #1, which proves he already has a case for lower than 1.

If "most people" vote for Trump will he be any less of a terrible President? Who cares what most prople think. Once most people thought the world was flat.

Lol your response to the original post is worse than the original post. You probably find Biden a good president just like you find LBJ as #1.

All Biden has to do is be superior to a clown to be my choice for President. Not a high bar.

[RHODEY]

And Jordan was a 9-time loser right? He played 15 years and only won 6. What is the difference between losing in the playoffs and the finals?

And yeah you can make as many excuses as you want, but Lebron won a championship in 2 different conferences and 3 different teams. Nothing you say can change that. Again, 4x champion, 4x finals MVP, and 4x MVP. He was leader on every level.

Winning on deck stacked teams of his choosing is not a good thing.

Except he beat the golden state warrior who won 67 games with Kyrie Irving as the #2. He has proven he doesn't need a stack them. He also carried his teams to 8 consecutive finals and been in the finals 10 times, and every Cavs fan would tell you, those were not stacked teams. Also, he won a championship with AD as a #2. If you think that should be discredited, then Kobe only has 2 championship since he played with Shaq, who is universally known to be greater than AD. Also, Kareem and Magic have zero championship since they played together and they are both arguably top 5 players of all time, and AD wasn't.

So keep making excuses. Lebron won 4x championship and has 4x finals MVP. Nothing will change that.

Stop it Kyrie beat the Warriors for him. Ray Allen saved him for another against the Spurs . His other rings he needed to team with a guy who already had a ring on his own - Wade and another multiple Allstar Chris Bosh. His rings are like Kd's 2... he needed to ring chase. So that automatically knocks him down to below 10. ESPN is comparing him to Jordan and skipping atleast 9 other players because its all for corporate branding. Lebron in GOAT discussion is way over hyped and manufactured.

[shi-woo]

I don't know why LeBron fans bring up the finals loses like they mean anything to their arguments. If he was beating out Dirks Mavs or even Gasols Grit N'Grind Grizz every year it would be impressive, but he didn't. LeBron teaming up with two of the best players in his conference multiple times and the DRose/Howard injuries really crippled an EC that has literally no competition after DET and BOS got old. The 3 teams that were meant to take over the conference (CLE MIA and TOR) ended up with just one good team and the other two had to basically restart. ITt's one of the reasons why the EC was trash for the 2010's.

We already have a thread about how stacked the West was. Losing Dwight, Bosh, Wade, and Rose just made it literally unwatchable at times. LeBron was the favorite to come out of the East every year, and would have every year even if he didn't go to MIA. It's why so many of us still hold it against him, his move completely changed the dynamic and natural progression of competition.

The only real competition James had from 2010-His move to LA a decade later was a Boston Celtics team with an average age of 47, a Boston team with a 5'7 point, and a trash Pacers team that needed all the media hyperbole it could muster to convince us all that a 22 year old Paul Gorge and Roy Hibbert were somehow worthy opponents. When LeBron played a team/series that was even remotely close in talent level, we know the results. 4 for 9. A losing record and 2 rings in shortened seasons. Not really much to write home about when comparing careers and narratives.

Caring about the teams in his own conference ended in 2010. After that it was all about his results in the finals.

[BigGargamel]

Someone said Isaiah Thomas LOL. I can't take this board seriously.

I have him at 2. I think you could only make an argument for Jordan, Kareem and Russell over him. So lowest I would have him is 4.

[Mephariel]

Winning on deck stacked teams of his choosing is not a good thing.

Except he beat the golden state warrior who won 67 games with Kyrie Irving as the #2. He has proven he doesn't need a stack them. He also carried his teams to 8 consecutive finals and been in the finals 10 times, and every Cavs fan would tell you, those were not stacked teams. Also, he won a championship with AD as a #2. If you think that should be discredited, then Kobe only has 2 championship since he played with Shaq, who is universally known to be greater than AD. Also, Kareem and Magic have zero championship since they played together and they are both arguably top 5 players of all time, and AD wasn't.

So keep making excuses. Lebron won 4x championship and has 4x finals MVP. Nothing will change that.

Stop it Kyrie beat the Warriors for him. Ray Allen saved him for another against the Spurs . His other rings he needed to team with a guy who already had a ring on his own - Wade and another multiple Allstar Chris Bosh. His rings are like Kd's 2... he needed to ring chase. So that automatically knocks him down to below 10. ESPN is comparing him to Jordan and skipping atleast 9 other players because its all for corporate branding. Lebron in GOAT discussion is way over hyped and manufactured.

Stop it. So Jordan only has 4 rings right? Paxson saved him in the Suns series and Kerr saved him in the Utah series. Kyrie wouldn't even be in the Finals without riding Lebron's coattails. Stop it. Also, Lebron won Finals MVP. Don't forget that. You can cry about manufactured hype or corporate branding all you want. You can't deny this though:

4x champion, 4x Finals MVP, 4x MVP, 20 time all-star, 1st in points, 4th in assists.

[RHODEY]

Except he beat the golden state warrior who won 67 games with Kyrie Irving as the #2. He has proven he doesn't need a stack them. He also carried his teams to 8 consecutive finals and been in the finals 10 times, and every Cavs fan would tell you, those were not stacked teams. Also, he won a championship with AD as a #2. If you think that should be discredited, then Kobe only has 2 championship since he played with Shaq, who is universally known to be greater than AD. Also, Kareem and Magic have zero championship since they played together and they are both arguably top 5 players of all time, and AD wasn't.

So keep making excuses. Lebron won 4x championship and has 4x finals MVP. Nothing will change that.

Stop it Kyrie beat the Warriors for him. Ray Allen saved him for another against the Spurs . His other rings he needed to team with a guy who already had a ring on his own - Wade and another multiple Allstar Chris Bosh. His rings are like Kd's 2... he needed to ring chase. So that automatically knocks him down to below 10. ESPN is comparing him to Jordan and skipping atleast 9 other players because its all for corporate branding. Lebron in GOAT discussion is way over hyped and manufactured.

Stop it. So Jordan only has 4 rings right? Paxson saved him in the Suns series and Kerr saved him in the Utah series. Kyrie wouldn't even be in the Finals without riding Lebron's coattails. Stop it. Also, Lebron won Finals MVP. Don't forget that. You can cry about manufactured hype or corporate branding all you want. You can't deny this though:

4x champion, 4x Finals MVP, 4x MVP, 20 time all-star, 1st in points, 4th in assists.

lol

..Ill pick a random GOAT level player.....Explain why Lebron is automatically considered better than Dnncan?

[Iwasawitness]

It is not difficult to justify at all. He carried his team as the number 1 option to the finals 8 consecutive times.

He is a 4x champion and 4x finals MVP and 4x MVP on top of that.

At lowest, he is #3 behind Kareem and MJ. I have him #2 behind MJ. Again, not difficult at all.

And lost most of them. I'm not interested in his participation trophies.

Except he is a 4x champion. And 4x finals MVP. This proves without a doubt he can lead a time to a championship time and time again.

Again, he carried his team to the finals 10x (8 consecutive years) and won 4x. Lebron gets you in the finals automatically each year at minimum.

You're talking to a guy who called LeBron's career underwhelming. Don't waste your time.

Stop it Kyrie beat the Warriors for him. Ray Allen saved him for another against the Spurs . His other rings he needed to team with a guy who already had a ring on his own - Wade and another multiple Allstar Chris Bosh. His rings are like Kd's 2... he needed to ring chase. So that automatically knocks him down to below 10. ESPN is comparing him to Jordan and skipping atleast 9 other players because its all for corporate branding. Lebron in GOAT discussion is way over hyped and manufactured.

[NDaATL]

I don't know why LeBron fans bring up the finals loses like they mean anything to their arguments. If he was beating out Dirks Mavs or even Gasols Grit N'Grind Grizz every year it would be impressive, but he didn't. LeBron teaming up with two of the best players in his conference multiple times and the DRose/Howard injuries really crippled an EC that has literally no competition after DET and BOS got old. The 3 teams that were meant to take over the conference (CLE MIA and TOR) ended up with just one good team and the other two had to basically restart. ITt's one of the reasons why the EC was trash for the 2010's.

We already have a thread about how stacked the West was. Losing Dwight, Bosh, Wade, and Rose just made it literally unwatchable at times. LeBron was the favorite to come out of the East every year, and would have every year even if he didn't go to MIA. It's why so many of us still hold it against him, his move completely changed the dynamic and natural progression of competition.

The only real competition James had from 2010-His move to LA a decade later was a Boston Celtics team with an average age of 47, a Boston team with a 5'7 point, and a trash Pacers team that needed all the media hyperbole it could muster to convince us all that a 22 year old Paul Gorge and Roy Hibbert were somehow worthy opponents. When LeBron played a team/series that was even remotely close in talent level, we know the results. 4 for 9. A losing record and 2 rings in shortened seasons. Not really much to write home about when comparing careers and narratives.

Caring about the teams in his own conference ended in 2010. After that it was all about his results in the finals.

This is true, LeBron made a lot of finals with average teams b/c the East was so bad. And when he went to the Heat, noone else had a chance. I don't penalize LeBron for finals losses (other than Dallas) and the Spurs one was pretty bad b/c of the margin of victory. Credit to him for getting to the finals in a weak east, But LeBron losing in the finals is no different from Jordan losing to the Celtics in the 80s or Pistons in the 90s. LeBron just had no true challenge in the East for many years.

[cupcakesnake]

I'm a Lebron hater but I find I have to do mental gymnastics to create a consistent criteria that ranks Lebron much lower than #1 or 2.

- If I want to go pure prime/peak, I go Mike. I can see good arguments for Shaq and Kareem here too. So I don't feel like a total clown if I have Lebron all the way down at #4. But he has more prime seasons than all of these guys, so this feels like too specific of a GOAT argument.

- If I want to go longevity, Lebron has flat out won this category and it's no longer close. Lebron haters used to at least be able to hold Kareem over him, but we can't anymore. In terms of total career value it's Lebron and then a big gap.

- Maybe I'm a big defense and believe the archetype of "defensive anchor who can still be your best offensive player" is the most valuable thing ever, then I make my Tim Duncan GOAT case, and get Kareem in the mix. But Lebron's defense doesn't slouch enough to get him low on this list. I don't like Hakeem's offense enough to put him over Lebron in this 2-way approach to player ranking. I'd still consider Lebron for the #1 spot.

So I can believe in an argument for #3 or #4 but I think you need to work hard on a criteria to get him down there, lol.

[KembaWalker]

Stop it Kyrie beat the Warriors for him. Ray Allen saved him for another against the Spurs . His other rings he needed to team with a guy who already had a ring on his own - Wade and another multiple Allstar Chris Bosh. His rings are like Kd's 2... he needed to ring chase. So that automatically knocks him down to below 10. ESPN is comparing him to Jordan and skipping atleast 9 other players because its all for corporate branding. Lebron in GOAT discussion is way over hyped and manufactured.

Stop it. So Jordan only has 4 rings right? Paxson saved him in the Suns series and Kerr saved him in the Utah series. Kyrie wouldn't even be in the Finals without riding Lebron's coattails. Stop it. Also, Lebron won Finals MVP. Don't forget that. You can cry about manufactured hype or corporate branding all you want. You can't deny this though:

4x champion, 4x Finals MVP, 4x MVP, 20 time all-star, 1st in points, 4th in assists.

lol

..Ill pick a random GOAT level player.....Explain why Lebron is automatically considered better than Dnncan?

Dude just rolled in from day 1 and put a championship contender on the floor every day for almost 20 years till he hung it up, no BS, no super team, no commercials about bailing on his team, no standing around watching on defense, no drama.

That’s way too great for RealGM, they need the guy that the media tells them

[Chessboxer]

I think he's top 5 but not #1. Lebron has managed his career as a corporatist, relying on mergers and acquisitions to facilitate winning, which is probably the main criterion of GOAT. The Miami arc of his career was the beginning, joining 2 top 10 players, in fact Wade was considered top 3 at the time. Joining the best competition in his own conference secured him 2 titles and 4 successive finals run, and some people still think he underachieved.