2003 Tim Duncan is transported to 2024 NBA

[ChipotleWest]

but im wondering how that would work. You said 2003 Tim Duncan is transported over. So does that mean Greg Popovich has no memory of his time with Duncan in 1998-2003 and beyond that? Realistically i think Pop would trade practically the whole team to pair Duncan next to Wemby.

Then build from there.

OP said throw him in a random team in the East. Could even be the 12 win Pistons.

[Optms]

Number 1

If 2003 TD play in today’s game. He is still the best player in the league.

Duncan was a low to high post player offensively. That game is outdated now. And TD wasn't a profilic scorer or athletic beast to make up for it in today's era, like a Shaq would. He wasn't versatile either like a KG was.

Alright, so now you take his HOF level defense. Best suited for half court, which the Spurs pre-2010 played exclusively, even more than the teams of the day. Now teams would take him out of the paint, nullifying his defense in several ways. Still elite, but not on the level he was in 2003.

So, now we transport a player than wasn't even the consensus best player in 2003 to the modern game - where the game isn't suited for him like it was in 2003. You expect him to somehow be the best player? How? That makes zero sense. Its an insult to today's players.

[LessEyeTest]

Number 1

If 2003 TD play in today’s game. He is still the best player in the league.

Duncan was a low to high post player offensively. That game is outdated now. And TD wasn't a profilic scorer or athletic beast to make up for it in today's era, like a Shaq would. He wasn't versatile either like a KG was.

Alright, so now you take his HOF level defense. Best suited for half court, which the Spurs pre-2010 played exclusively, even more than the teams of the day. Now teams would take him out of the paint, nullifying his defense in several ways. Still elite, but not on the level he was in 2003.

So, now we transport a player than wasn't even the consensus best player in 2003 to the modern game - where the game isn't suited for him like it was in 2003. You expect him to somehow be the best player? How? That makes zero sense. Its an insult to today's players.

The guy who had the ultimate carry job in NBA history wasn't the consensus best player in 2003?

Look, I know you're a Kobe guy but TD was *the guy* in 2003. He's right there with Hakeem, Dirk and Jokic having won a title without an all-star teammate. In 2003, I believe Kobe was dealing with legal issues for committing rape.

[One_and_Done]

Following up on my earlier comment I wanted to break down a pretty typical stretch of play for the 99 Spurs, to show just how much of a one man show they were. I’ve chosen the deciding game in the finals, but honestly I could have picked a dozen games.

I want to start with 2:20 left in the 3rd, because it’s heading into crunch time for this game, and the Knicks are leading the Spurs 54-50.

The Spurs struggle to get the ball to Duncan, who is doubled in the post. He scores anyway and is fouled, then makes the FT.

Knicks ball, Spreewell burns his man for a contested jumper. Spurs go back to Duncan, who banks in a long range 2.

Knicks travel. Back to Duncan. He drives and LJ fouls him to stop him scoring. Duncan makes both.

Spreewell again beats his man to score. The rest of the Spurs pass the ball around because Duncan is so doubled. They almost turn it over, but miraculously Malik Rose draws a foul before turning it over. He makes 1 FT.

Spreewell misses this time, and Duncan draws a loose ball foul on the rebound. Duncan makes one of two.

Queue up the 4th Qrt, and Jaren Jackson bricks a shot. The Knicks race up the other end, but Duncan gets the block. Duncan then runs up the floor and banks in a long range jumper while doubled. It’s now 61-58 Spurs, and Duncan has 26 of their points and 10 of their last 11 points.

Spree scores yet again on the other end due to horrid Spurs perimeter D. Aside from being useless on D, Sean Elliot doesn’t have a basket yet. Down the other end and Duncan tries to find Elliot on the pass. Elliot fumbles it of course.

Knicks ball. Spreewell hits a 2 right over Malik Rose who fouls him in the process (of course)., and makes the FT. Spreewell and Houston have 22 of the Knicks 25 second half points so far, while the rest of their guys (i.e. their paint scorers) have only 3 points, because they can’t get anything through Duncan. David Robinson has been out of the game this entire stretch btw.

The commentators complain Duncan needs some help from the other Spurs. “Or does he” quips one, as he makes a contested hook shot.

Spree is then illegally defended by 2 Spurs, because illegal D still exists and of course the 2 Spurs perimeter guys somehow commit illegal D.

D.Rob checks back in. Houston is guarded by Duncan, in an effort to stifle the Knicks perimeter players. Houston passes rather than try to get by Duncan, He gets the ball back later in the clock and bricks up a rushed shot. Duncan finally misses a long range jumper. Spree gets an open 3, because of course the Spurs perimeter guys can’t defend anyone. Knicks up 66-63. Duncan has 12 of the Spurs last 13 points. Duncan is doubled, and promptly scores again over both guys.

Spree scores over the Spurs hopeless perimeter D yet again. Duncan is getting so much defensive attention in the post that Avery gets an open layup, the first non-Duncan basket in long time.

Robinson gets a steal (finally someone else does something), and on the other end Duncan throws a nice pass to D.Rob in the post; but he is fouled and can’t convert. Robinson goes one of two, and has 11 points.

Avery tries to score, but Camby swats his shot. Elliot then misses yet again, not even close. Two of the non-Duncan Spurs then commit illegal defence AGAIN. I hasten to add that on almost all these plays Duncan is the primary post defender, not Robinson. Elliot then commits a loose ball foul. Useless. Elliot has 2 points, 5 rebounds and 4 fouls, while playing no D.

Duncan has to double Spree to stop the Spurs perimeter guys giving up a basket again, but he passes to Camby who scores in the paint with D.Rob so out of position he might as well not even be there. Camby gets the foul and FT too of course.

Avery ignores Duncan and misses a horrendous shot. On the other end Duncan gets the rebound. Spurs come up the other end, and struggle to get the ball into Duncan. Jaren eventually bricks up a hopeless shot, and D.Rob gets the rebound and is fouled again. I should note that on these plays where D.Rob is fouled he isn’t even close to scoring. He actually has both shots blocked, but gets a ticky tack foul each time. D.Rob manages to hit both. Spurs are down 1.

Knicks have a 2 on 1 and Duncan has to concede the shot to Camby while trying to guard LJ. Mercifully D.Rob scores on the other end in the paint, missing the FT. The Spurs have a timeout and Pop yells at the team for creating an overlap on D by not rotating (i.e. not helping Duncan).

Knicks miss a 3., but on the other end they again don’t go to Duncan and Mario Ellie misses. Spree then scores a jumper on Elliot like he’s not even there. Pop is yelling like a mad man, and this time the Spurs go to Duncan. He is doubled, and kicks it out immediately for a wide open Ellie 3. Tied game again.

Duncan again resorts to defending Spree but this time he is called for a pretty unlucky reach in foul. On the other end Elliot tries to run another non-Duncan play again, gets into trouble, and throws it to #21 with no time on the shot clock while he is on on the 3 point line. Duncan has to take the contested 3 because he has no options, but the Spurs rebound. This time they go right to Duncan, and he’s immediately doubled and fouled. He hits 1. 2:30 left. Spurs down 77-76.

Spree tries to drive and Duncan blocks it so hard it is jammed against the rim. Jump ball, which D.Rob loses. NY timeout. Duncan take Spree on the perimeter, and Spree can’t get any separation. He runs out of time and makes a desperation pass followed by a 24 second violation.

Spurs go to Duncan in the post. He is literally triple teamed. The Spurs get a huge overlap, but do nothing with it. The play ends with D.Rob missing a weird hook layup by a preposterous amount. Knicks miss, so it’s Spurs ball, down 1, under a minute to go. Again to Duncan in the post. He’s hard doubled in the post, and passes, resulting in Avery wide open in the corner, and that’s the final points of the game. The next NY play Spree is contested by Duncan and misses it. D.Rob then misses his next shot by a mile, because for some reason they don’t go to Duncan again when that is basically what they should be doing every single play. Spree takes the last shot, but is contested by Duncan and can’t even hit the rim.

If you go back through those final 14+ minutes, Duncan scored 15 of their last 28 points, and another 7 of those points were a direct result of Duncan being doubled. His team mates were so bad on D that Duncan had to help guard the perimeter threats, and his team mates kept committing dumb fouls and turnovers (2 illegal defences in a quarter of a finals game!?). D.Rob played like a role player, which is closer to what he was than a star. People get too hung up on advanced stats to admit that D.Rob was really pretty weak for a 2nd star, even in 99. The team relied on Duncan for almost everything.

[OdomFan]

but im wondering how that would work. You said 2003 Tim Duncan is transported over. So does that mean Greg Popovich has no memory of his time with Duncan in 1998-2003 and beyond that? Realistically i think Pop would trade practically the whole team to pair Duncan next to Wemby.

Then build from there.

OP said throw him in a random team in the East. Could even be the 12 win Pistons.

Yea, but still doesn't answer. Since its Duncan from 2003 transporting through time to 2024 where Popovich is still coaching, and he still has all his memories in tact from 2003.. Im just wondering is he going to remember that when he suddenly sees Duncan back in the league on that 12 win Pistons squad. With 2003 Duncan back in the NBA he'd be eligible to be traded to another team like anyone else. So Popovich could try to bring him back to the Spurs if he wanted to.

Heck Popovich would probably try to find this transporter machine so that he could make himself younger again too to keep on coaching lol. Probably try to get Manu and Parker to come back also.

[Nazrmohamed]

Duncan saw early versions of the pace and space style (Nash suns and Lebron heat) and he was awesome. He would do just fine in today’s NBA.

Not only that but toward the end of his career, although his stats won't down he was basically playing C in the midst of the nba having changed. And that was him way past his prime. So now imagine him playing C in his prime. That'd be the real difference to me. That he probably never plays PF in today's NBA but instead dominates the same way at C.

[dhsilv2]

Number 1

If 2003 TD play in today’s game. He is still the best player in the league.

Duncan was a low to high post player offensively. That game is outdated now. And TD wasn't a profilic scorer or athletic beast to make up for it in today's era, like a Shaq would. He wasn't versatile either like a KG was.

Alright, so now you take his HOF level defense. Best suited for half court, which the Spurs pre-2010 played exclusively, even more than the teams of the day. Now teams would take him out of the paint, nullifying his defense in several ways. Still elite, but not on the level he was in 2003.

So, now we transport a player than wasn't even the consensus best player in 2003 to the modern game - where the game isn't suited for him like it was in 2003. You expect him to somehow be the best player? How? That makes zero sense. Its an insult to today's players.

Duncan in the 2016 season, his last in the league...at this point barely able to jump over a piece of paper, was still 4th in some RAPM based metrics on defense in the entire league. 2003 Duncan, obviously we never got to see peak Duncan with his knees still fully healthy thanks to that 2000 injury, but he was still extremely explosive vertically and his arm length while not Wemby is very much in the Gobert range.

Now I don't think Duncan has any chance to surpass Jokic and I think him being clearly over Luca, Giannis, or Embiid is questionable. It's not because he wasn't athletic enough (he was) or that the game has changed too much. Defensively Duncan never dropped off from 1998 to 2016. He kept adapting his body bulking in the early 00's when he had to deal with Shaq and then as the league sped up, Duncan leaned out to keep up with the faster pace and needs for more mobility. Always falling back on his exceptional footwork and using his length to never have to gamble.

[sammo89]

My theory is that all elite 7 footers would translate well to any era. Just being 7 foot, healthy, strong, agile with a good shooting touch is a one in a billion build that will always have a place in the top levels of basketball

[DOT]

He'd be Anthony Davis but way more consistent.

[tsherkin]

He'd be Anthony Davis but way more consistent.

And considerably worse and aesthetically divergent on O. That comparison doesnt work at all.

[ConSarnit]

He'd be Anthony Davis but way more consistent.

And considerably worse and aesthetically divergent on O. That comparison doesnt work at all.

How is he worse on offense? Davis is a better finisher, Duncan a better passer and neither are threats outside of 10 feet.

Davis has a slight efficiency edge and Duncan is a better offensive hub. Seems like a wash to me.

[OdomFan]

He'd be Anthony Davis but way more consistent.

And considerably worse and aesthetically divergent on O. That comparison doesnt work at all.

You mean considerably worse just because he doesn't jack up 3 pointers like AD and other bigs now? He didn't need 3's in 2003, and wouldn't need them now.

Duncan was a very good scorer, but his unselfish play was the perfect match alongside Greg Popovich's team play system that made the Spurs as great as they were. However if you put Duncan in a modern coaches system in the scenario that 2003 Duncan is some how in the 2024 NBA. You don't know what Duncan and those coaches would work on to help him be able to produce well for that team in games. It might mean he may shoot some 3's, but I honestly feel like it wouldn't be necessary. Duncan can draw double teams, and when that happens he can pass the ball out to someone else to knock down the 3 pointer. Don't double team him and there's really no one that I can think of that would consistently stop him from getting his midrange jumper or inside buckets from going in. He would be a higher tier than AD.

[cupcakesnake]

I think with 2024 Duncan, we'd just start with him being a DPOY-level anchor. Probably not winning DPOY (he didn't win in his own era) as there were always flashier, more exciting candidates, but clearly bringing some of the best defensive impact in the league with his rim protection, smarts, and scheme versatility.

His offense is harder to imagine how it translates. You wouldn't build an offense around his post scoring, but you would post him a bit and use him to attack mismatches and abuse teams that switch. I think you'd use him in DHO and as a versatile enough pick & pop/roll guy. DHO allows him to impact the game with his decision making. Ultimately you're trying to pair him with high-level offensive guards and use Duncan as a screener.

I think he scores a lot less (under 20 ppg) but his teams consistently rank high on defense and win a lot. Monster scheme rim protector who makes great reads as a passer and finisher on offense. I bet he makes all-NBA teams every year but casual fans scream about how overrated he is.

[r0drig0lac]

top1 easily

[Hair Jordan]

2003 Duncan would be lucky to make a high school team nowadays. Modern players are bigger, faster and stronger than the plumbers Duncan played against. Duncan was getting fat feasting on the Greg Ostertags, Luc Longleys and Kwame Brown of the world among other stiffs who polluted the league back then. Modern players skill sets are so highly advanced it would look like witchcraft to a caveman like Duncan. His low post game is hopelessly outdated and his shot would get swatted into the upper mezzanine of every arena he played in. On defense, he would be completely baffled and outgunned by modern centers who would rain 3’s on his head. He’d be glued to the court while the stretch 4’s and centers ran circles around him like a game of duck-duck-goose. Duncan in the modern game is basically a homeless mans Steven Adams with worse defense. Duncan was good for his time but is a dinosaur in the current league. No way a player from 2003 can compete today with these insane athletes and their mesmerizing handles, unlimited shooting range and Thor like strength derived from the latest and greatest advances in medical science. In all honesty, I’ve seen elementary school kids with better footwork than Duncan. Wait, Lebron was in the league in 2003 and is still a force right now? Ok. Never mind. Duncan would still be good

[dhsilv2]

I think with 2024 Duncan, we'd just start with him being a DPOY-level anchor. Probably not winning DPOY (he didn't win in his own era) as there were always flashier, more exciting candidates, but clearly bringing some of the best defensive impact in the league with his rim protection, smarts, and scheme versatility.

His offense is harder to imagine how it translates. You wouldn't build an offense around his post scoring, but you would post him a bit and use him to attack mismatches and abuse teams that switch. I think you'd use him in DHO and as a versatile enough pick & pop/roll guy. DHO allows him to impact the game with his decision making. Ultimately you're trying to pair him with high-level offensive guards and use Duncan as a screener.

I think he scores a lot less (under 20 ppg) but his teams consistently rank high on defense and win a lot. Monster scheme rim protector who makes great reads as a passer and finisher on offense. I bet he makes all-NBA teams every year but casual fans scream about how overrated he is.

Gobert averages 14 nearly. Under 20 some years perhaps but I think a good team would find more than enough plays to let Duncan finish and work down low to score 20+ at his peak. There are 38 guys averaging 20 or more this year.

[ShootersShoot]

I think with 2024 Duncan, we'd just start with him being a DPOY-level anchor. Probably not winning DPOY (he didn't win in his own era) as there were always flashier, more exciting candidates, but clearly bringing some of the best defensive impact in the league with his rim protection, smarts, and scheme versatility.

His offense is harder to imagine how it translates. You wouldn't build an offense around his post scoring, but you would post him a bit and use him to attack mismatches and abuse teams that switch. I think you'd use him in DHO and as a versatile enough pick & pop/roll guy. DHO allows him to impact the game with his decision making. Ultimately you're trying to pair him with high-level offensive guards and use Duncan as a screener.

I think he scores a lot less (under 20 ppg) but his teams consistently rank high on defense and win a lot. Monster scheme rim protector who makes great reads as a passer and finisher on offense. I bet he makes all-NBA teams every year but casual fans scream about how overrated he is.

Gobert averages 14 nearly. Under 20 some years perhaps but I think a good team would find more than enough plays to let Duncan finish and work down low to score 20+ at his peak. There are 38 guys averaging 20 or more this year.

I think duncan was a pretty impactful player offensively. If we compare him to say, jarett allen or evan mobley, duncan is clearly in a higher tier.

Duncan averaged over 23ppg for the first 10 years he was in the playoffs. Yes he was averaging 40mpg but that was a slower paced era and he was clearly the #1 option on championship contenders. Per 36, he was still averaging over 21ppg in the playoffs for over a decade, and that includes his rookie year.

[dhsilv2]

I think with 2024 Duncan, we'd just start with him being a DPOY-level anchor. Probably not winning DPOY (he didn't win in his own era) as there were always flashier, more exciting candidates, but clearly bringing some of the best defensive impact in the league with his rim protection, smarts, and scheme versatility.

His offense is harder to imagine how it translates. You wouldn't build an offense around his post scoring, but you would post him a bit and use him to attack mismatches and abuse teams that switch. I think you'd use him in DHO and as a versatile enough pick & pop/roll guy. DHO allows him to impact the game with his decision making. Ultimately you're trying to pair him with high-level offensive guards and use Duncan as a screener.

I think he scores a lot less (under 20 ppg) but his teams consistently rank high on defense and win a lot. Monster scheme rim protector who makes great reads as a passer and finisher on offense. I bet he makes all-NBA teams every year but casual fans scream about how overrated he is.

Gobert averages 14 nearly. Under 20 some years perhaps but I think a good team would find more than enough plays to let Duncan finish and work down low to score 20+ at his peak. There are 38 guys averaging 20 or more this year.

I think duncan was a pretty impactful player offensively. If we compare him to say, jarett allen or evan mobley, duncan is clearly in a higher tier.

Duncan averaged over 23ppg for the first 10 years he was in the playoffs. Yes he was averaging 40mpg but that was a slower paced era and he was clearly the #1 option on championship contenders. Per 36, he was still averaging over 21ppg in the playoffs for over a decade, and that includes his rookie year.

The people that say he couldnt do it in this era clearly dont understand hoops.

I don't think anyone, even the post I'm disputing, think he couldn't. It's a question of should or would. Obviously he could average 25-30 today. But that likely isn't optimized offense.

[ShootersShoot]

Gobert averages 14 nearly. Under 20 some years perhaps but I think a good team would find more than enough plays to let Duncan finish and work down low to score 20+ at his peak. There are 38 guys averaging 20 or more this year.

I think duncan was a pretty impactful player offensively. If we compare him to say, jarett allen or evan mobley, duncan is clearly in a higher tier.

Duncan averaged over 23ppg for the first 10 years he was in the playoffs. Yes he was averaging 40mpg but that was a slower paced era and he was clearly the #1 option on championship contenders. Per 36, he was still averaging over 21ppg in the playoffs for over a decade, and that includes his rookie year.

The people that say he couldnt do it in this era clearly dont understand hoops.

I don't think anyone, even the post I'm disputing, think he couldn't. It's a question of should or would. Obviously he could average 25-30 today. But that likely isn't optimized offense.

I think TD was incredibly intelligent on offense. He would do the right thing, which means take a back seat if he had to. If the question is could he be the building block of a championship level group, I would say yes.

He wouldnt be super dominant though. He had his issues with shaq and even dirk back in the day. I think he would need more help than say giannis or Jokic to win a chip in this era.

[cupcakesnake]

I think with 2024 Duncan, we'd just start with him being a DPOY-level anchor. Probably not winning DPOY (he didn't win in his own era) as there were always flashier, more exciting candidates, but clearly bringing some of the best defensive impact in the league with his rim protection, smarts, and scheme versatility.

His offense is harder to imagine how it translates. You wouldn't build an offense around his post scoring, but you would post him a bit and use him to attack mismatches and abuse teams that switch. I think you'd use him in DHO and as a versatile enough pick & pop/roll guy. DHO allows him to impact the game with his decision making. Ultimately you're trying to pair him with high-level offensive guards and use Duncan as a screener.

I think he scores a lot less (under 20 ppg) but his teams consistently rank high on defense and win a lot. Monster scheme rim protector who makes great reads as a passer and finisher on offense. I bet he makes all-NBA teams every year but casual fans scream about how overrated he is.

Gobert averages 14 nearly. Under 20 some years perhaps but I think a good team would find more than enough plays to let Duncan finish and work down low to score 20+ at his peak. There are 38 guys averaging 20 or more this year.

I think duncan was a pretty impactful player offensively. If we compare him to say, jarett allen or evan mobley, duncan is clearly in a higher tier.

Duncan averaged over 23ppg for the first 10 years he was in the playoffs. Yes he was averaging 40mpg but that was a slower paced era and he was clearly the #1 option on championship contenders. Per 36, he was still averaging over 21ppg in the playoffs for over a decade, and that includes his rookie year.

He's like Mobley but a LOT stronger, and with better shooting touch. Or he's like Allen but a lot stronger with better handles, passing skills and shooting touch. It's fun to picture Duncan in this finisher role but it's hard to think of bigs with as much game as Duncan playing this role.

So he could be a finisher like Mobley/Allen, but add efficient post up scorer, and high post hub. I think offensively, I'd start by looking at bigs like Sabonis, AD, and Bam as a starting place for imagining his game.