We Done With This 90’s Hating

[mysticOscar]

It went up when the line was shortened and collapsed the second the line was pushed back, If you think Jordan's effiency is going to improve from his shots actually getting defended on 3 times the attempts, you are delusional

No, MJs effeciency is correlated more to the volume he takes. Any regular and playoff seasons he takes 2 or more attempts a game he averages decent 3pt effeciency

Whatever biasis you have against MJ don't twist reality to suit your narrative

Buddy, Jordan’s increased three point percentage happened during the seasons the three point line shortened. That’s the entire reason he took more threes in the first place.

Ohayo is one of our more knowledgeable posters on the site. He’s anything but a troll.

But that's just wrong. He had seasons without the shortened 3pt line where he had increased his volume from around 2 and above and his effeciency was decent.

His overall playoff 3p effeciency minus the shortened 3pt line years were also decent and he had somewhat overall decent volume that was meaningful.

That poster was using MJs seasons where he attempted only around 1 or less 3pa in a league where teams were averaging 3-7 attempts a game to make his claim. Which is ludicrous.

After seeing his responses with other posters, I can see now that he wasn't trolling, but rather just very biased against MJ in his analysis and conclusion.

Any serious unbiased analysis would conclude there is no inconclusive evidence of how good he would be if he increased his 3PA volume to resemble the type of number of attempts today....BUT there are signals to indicate that he would be decent.

Other than having seasons where he attempted a certain amount of 3pt in a normal 3pt line, he generally made them at a decent clip......

He was also a good FT shooter and was elite mid range shooter. And this normally correlates to also being NOT a bad 3pt shooter (yes there are some exceptions but that's generally not the rule).

Also, when the line was shortened, he shot them at a good %,, way above the league average...to say that 1 foot 9 inches difference is somehow his achilles heel which makes MJ fall behind the league average is a bit of leap in faith........especially if we consider that he had seasons on a normal 3pt line where his volume was decent, he was also effecient.

So yes your right...he wasn't trolling, his disdain for MJ is just clouding his jusgement

[Showdown]

Personally as a fan, I enjoy every era.

Enjoyer of every era is enjoyer of no era

[One_and_Done]

Those Bulls teams wouldn't be top 3 seeds today. 93 Bulls is a good example. They started Cartwright and BJ Armstrong, and most of their minute getters couldn't hit 3s.

[TheGOATRises007]

Personally as a fan, I enjoy every era.

Enjoyer of every era is enjoyer of no era

Some of you try too hard

[C3H6N6O6]

Hating the 90s is different from accepting the talent in the 90s was way worse compared to the league of today.

I think talentwise the NBA will keep getting better for at least 5 more years and then it might stay at that level till kids in African countries start getting good facilities to play from a young age then it will see a big spike for another 20 years.

[donnieme]

Yeah, and then Jordan responded to Magic by saying “how can you talk? I don’t think you ever fouled out of a game.” The point is that all superstar players get favorable calls. Look at the Lakers the last two years. They lead the league in FT attempts by a huge margin. Why do you think that is? Lebron obviously. Not only does he get a favorable whistle but his entire team gets a favorable whistle. Show me evidence of the Bulls leading the league by the same amount of FT over a two year stretch like Lebron’s Lakers. I’ll wait.

I said star calls exist today for like the twelvth hundred time. That one was never claimed or denied.

The point was star calls aren't a recent phenomenon. They didnt just start to creep into the game after 2015 like the oldheads claim. The softening of the league started in the very generation of players most vocal on dissing the present. Rodman for example was an alltime great flopper. Barkley who loves dissing bigs for taking 3s was known for spamming threes on a volume his efficiency could barely support. Even the image of grit and enmity was a myth. There just wasn't any twitter to see MJ playing golf with finals opponents. Or that Malone and Rodman were actually tight.

You obviously weren’t alive back then and have no idea what you’re talking about

Christ. More ignorance based gatekeeping. By the way you communicate I'm going to have to assume you werent either.

[One_and_Done]

Jordan fans can't handle how bad the 90s were. It's pretty obvious all the ways it was an inferior league.

[MavsDirk41]

Jordan fans can't handle how bad the 90s were. It's pretty obvious all the ways it was an inferior league.

For someone who thinks the 90s was the greatest era in the nba why dont you explain how it was inferior….its also funny that you say Rick Mahorn and Oakley couldnt make an nba roster today when i just watched a game where McGee was on the court. Drummond, Adams, Looney, Poetle, Plumlee, etc are still on rosters as well…

[One_and_Done]

Jordan fans can't handle how bad the 90s were. It's pretty obvious all the ways it was an inferior league.

For someone who thinks the 90s was the greatest era in the nba why dont you explain how it was inferior….its also funny that you say Rick Mahorn and Oakley couldnt make an nba roster today when i just watched a game where McGee was on the court. Drummond, Adams, Looney, Poetle, Plumlee, etc are still on rosters as well…

I said they'd be bench warmers. This is where reading helps.

I've explained the 90s problems so many times to you. At a certain point it's obvious you're not listening.

[MavsDirk41]

Jordan fans can't handle how bad the 90s were. It's pretty obvious all the ways it was an inferior league.

For someone who thinks the 90s was the greatest era in the nba why dont you explain how it was inferior….its also funny that you say Rick Mahorn and Oakley couldnt make an nba roster today when i just watched a game where McGee was on the court. Drummond, Adams, Looney, Poetle, Plumlee, etc are still on rosters as well…

I said they'd be bench warmers. This is where reading helps.

I've explained the 90s problems so many times to you. At a certain point it's obvious you're not listening.

Im not listening because your opinions are not facts no more than my opinions are facts….keep trolling tho

[tsherkin]

There is something to the actual seasons where he shot a reasonable volume at the normal range and shot just fine. He clearly COULD shoot the 3 at a respectable clip, regardless of how you evaluate his low-volume seasons. Not that he was comparable in talent, but over his first couple seasons on low volume, you'd think Bird couldnt shoot it either using similar analysis.

There are 2 seasons multiple years apart he shot "at a reasonable volume". If we go to the playoffs we see he shot at that "reasonable volume" pretty much every year and his career average percentage...is the exact same as what it was for the chicago rs

looks like noise to me(or alternatively, jordan deciding to shoot more when he was hot; fiw MJ's volume also jumped with the shortened line and...went back down when it was pushed back)[/quote]

You have a two-season sample from total playoff games. Funny how in 91-93, though, he was shooting quite well, around the same time he was consistently using it in the RS before his retirement and that 98 finger injury though. Food for thought. Looks kind of like a development curve to me, personally... Kind of like we saw with multiple players in that timeframe.

And if he really was capable of doing that every year...then why didn't he even try?

That... wasn't his game? Especially in the 80s?

[DCasey91]

Jordan fans can't handle how bad the 90s were. It's pretty obvious all the ways it was an inferior league.

For someone who thinks the 90s was the greatest era in the nba why dont you explain how it was inferior….its also funny that you say Rick Mahorn and Oakley couldnt make an nba roster today when i just watched a game where McGee was on the court. Drummond, Adams, Looney, Poetle, Plumlee, etc are still on rosters as well…

Cap loopholes, which don’t exist today (NBA paid the excess on tax)

Poorer than average execution with archaic philosophy, free shot from the outside any time you wanted. Teams repeatedly had trouble against a simple in and out from Miller. Old meta replaced with straight better strategies. Now old doesn’t mean bad. Shift in baseball for example

But in this case it was old and not good comparatively speaking. Objectively in a game you always want to min/max which is obviously didn’t happen.

It was choppy in the sense there wasn’t enough depth of talent too overcome it. Heck the Jazz would have been a more serious contender with a better list earlier.

Rule manipulation on every team (essentially a free press at all times)
Why I say this?

Baseball had it’s lowest BA at .243 in 2022 not since 68 because of the shift

In the 90’s with a free press you essentially park Luc Fukn Longley anywhere and it brings one out now it’s 4 on 4 bring the other 3 out opposite, boom free iso with space every time.

But hey if you can do it then do it. That doesn’t mean it was pretty to watch it was the opposite.

Drop in offence from 88-98. 99 might be the outright worst one year in NBA history... which was in the 90’s. 97/98 Both teams weren’t at their best yet both were in the finals playing (6 illegal calls in the 98 finals before halftime)

Bulls operated at what a 50+ win team without Jordan during all the games he missed. Taylor reckons it was 75% percentile I see it as higher especially considering the second go around they had Harper, Rodman, Pippen as the 3 out of 4 elite defensive unit along with one of best euros at the time coming off the bench.

The first go around Pippen/Grant was at their peak which isn’t actually far off George and Horford respectively time wise.

Finals teams weren’t historic compared to the 80’s.

Personally much prefer the 80’s in comparison it was a bloodbath of the highest proportions when it came to the end. The fact that you could argue the best one year team in that decade wasn’t actually the Lakers or Celtics paints a picture of it.

The talk of physicality is greatly overblown when every team sagged off the ball handler free waltzing to the elbow. It’s pretty much the same today but in different and harder fashion. Running effort is harder especially movement wise. Today players set mad illegal screens that literally will make the defender null yet you don’t hear the old heads kicking up anything about it... hmm wonder why?

Nostalgia covers up a lot of things

[OhayoKD]

No, MJs effeciency is correlated more to the volume he takes. Any regular and playoff seasons he takes 2 or more attempts a game he averages decent 3pt effeciency

Whatever biasis you have against MJ don't twist reality to suit your narrative

Buddy, Jordan’s increased three point percentage happened during the seasons the three point line shortened. That’s the entire reason he took more threes in the first place.

Ohayo is one of our more knowledgeable posters on the site. He’s anything but a troll.

He's the definition of a troll

It's his shtick and he did the same thing on his other account

alt accusations in place of substantive responses is textbook trolling...

[zimpy27]

Jordan fans can't handle how bad the 90s were. It's pretty obvious all the ways it was an inferior league.

For someone who thinks the 90s was the greatest era in the nba why dont you explain how it was inferior….its also funny that you say Rick Mahorn and Oakley couldnt make an nba roster today when i just watched a game where McGee was on the court. Drummond, Adams, Looney, Poetle, Plumlee, etc are still on rosters as well…

Cap loopholes, which don’t exist today (NBA paid the excess on tax)

Poorer than average execution with archaic philosophy, free shot from the outside any time you wanted. Teams repeatedly had trouble against a simple in and out from Miller. Old meta replaced with straight better strategies. Now old doesn’t mean bad. Shift in baseball for example

But in this case it was old and not good comparatively speaking. Objectively in a game you always want to min/max which is obviously didn’t happen.

It was choppy in the sense there wasn’t enough depth of talent too overcome it. Heck the Jazz would have been a more serious contender with a better list earlier.

Rule manipulation on every team (essentially a free press at all times)
Why I say this?

Baseball had it’s lowest BA at .243 in 2022 not since 68 because of the shift

In the 90’s with a free press you essentially park Luc Fukn Longley anywhere and it brings one out now it’s 4 on 4 bring the other 3 out opposite, boom free iso with space every time.

But hey if you can do it then do it. That doesn’t mean it was pretty to watch it was the opposite.

Drop in offence from 88-98. 99 might be the outright worst one year in NBA history... which was in the 90’s. 97/98 Both teams weren’t at their best yet both were in the finals playing (6 illegal calls in the 98 finals before halftime)

Bulls operated at what a 50+ win team without Jordan during all the games he missed. Taylor reckons it was 75% percentile I see it as higher especially considering the second go around they had Harper, Rodman, Pippen as the 3 out of 4 elite defensive unit along with one of best euros at the time coming off the bench.

The first go around Pippen/Grant was at their peak which isn’t actually far off George and Horford respectively time wise.

Finals teams weren’t historic compared to the 80’s.

Personally much prefer the 80’s in comparison it was a bloodbath of the highest proportions when it came to the end. The fact that you could argue the best one year team in that decade wasn’t actually the Lakers or Celtics paints a picture of it.

The talk of physicality is greatly overblown when every team sagged off the ball handler free waltzing to the elbow. It’s pretty much the same today but in different and harder fashion. Running effort is harder especially movement wise. Today players set mad illegal screens that literally will make the defender null yet you don’t hear the old heads kicking up anything about it... hmm wonder why?

Nostalgia covers up a lot of things

Remember when they brought the 3 line in by 2 feet... What a time... Imagine them doing that today.

[One_and_Done]

I doubt most of Jordan's Bulls teams could get out of the 2nd round today.

[perempe20]

Jordan fans can't handle how bad the 90s were. It's pretty obvious all the ways it was an inferior league.

For someone who thinks the 90s was the greatest era in the nba why dont you explain how it was inferior….its also funny that you say Rick Mahorn and Oakley couldnt make an nba roster today when i just watched a game where McGee was on the court. Drummond, Adams, Looney, Poetle, Plumlee, etc are still on rosters as well…

I would like to add that talent & skill is not everything. I miss Charles Oakley, Dave Davis & Anthony Mason, these guys played much harder than today's players.

[biebstothelotto]

People are going to look back on the era and say "The competition was weak, Wemby was playing against dudes who had day job's as social media influencers." I'd like to see a plumbers vs influencers game.