Lebron won’t be on top 10 GOAT lists in 30 years

[bisme37]

It might be time for us to get OP off the laptop, phone, whatever it is. There should be a limit of nonsense threads made before you get your thread making privileges taken away.

You’re right. This forum seems like it’s patrolled by a bunch of kids who probably started watching the NBA around 2000 yet act like they have the requisite perspective to opine about players, teams, strategies and philosophies from earlier basketball eras. The mods seem to back up these kids to keep the status quo around here. Forgive me for thinking outside of the box with my topics and for trying to engage in a spirited debate. I’ll leave you to yourselves

Bruh I'm like 200 years old but it's always nice to catch strays while minding my own business and sucking on Werther's Originals.

[Hair Jordan]

It might be time for us to get OP off the laptop, phone, whatever it is. There should be a limit of nonsense threads made before you get your thread making privileges taken away.

You’re right. This forum seems like it’s patrolled by a bunch of kids who probably started watching the NBA around 2000 yet act like they have the requisite perspective to opine about players, teams, strategies and philosophies from earlier basketball eras. The mods seem to back up these kids to keep the status quo around here. Forgive me for thinking outside of the box with my topics and for trying to engage in a spirited debate. I’ll leave you to yourselves

Bruh I'm like 200 years old but it's always nice to catch strays while minding my own business and sucking on Werther's Originals.

[dygaction]

If you count MJ, Hakeem, Duncan, Shaq, LeBron, Kobe, Steph as top 10, some might argue Jokic, Giannis are knocking on the door with more success, then there would be only 3 players from 30 years ago. There is a good chance better players evolve with modern training and international talents getting in, so not likely but certainly a possibility.

Giannis can knock on the door for the rest of his life. Ain’t nobody gonna open it for him.

That's too harsh. If he wins two more rings as the best player, you have to shuffle someone out and let him in. Already 6 years in a row top 5 finish in MVP with actual b2b selections. He has limitations but so had Shaq.

[iggymcfrack]

Wilt’s records are a result of playing in an era with an insanely fast pace where guys played huge minute loads. For instance, every single top 10 rebounder started their career in 1970 or before. If you start using era adjusted advanced numbers, Wilt’s numbers weren’t as good as Bron or Jordan or Jokic. Also, when Wilt continually lost to Russell, that would be the only 50-win team he’d have to play. LeBron has continually beat incredible competition in the playoffs just to occasionally lose to superteams. Wilt’s career series record in the playoffs was 18-11. LeBron’s is 41-12.

And yet, despite Wilt never being anywhere remotely as dominant for his era as LeBron is for his, he’s still routinely listed in most people’s top 10s 50 years after his retirement. In conclusion, your point is poppycock and nonsense. LeBron might eventually dip to #4 or something 30 years down the line, but there’s zero chance of him experiencing anywhere near that drastic of a fall.

[phanman]

-Doncic looked like the next guy but hasn’t had same trajectory as LeBron

I just think about how Doncic's rookie year we got all these people hyping him up as the guy to surpass LeBron, but not even 5 years later he's already off track

Outside of a surprise Final's appearance in 2007, Luka is right there with what LeBron has accomplished in the 5 complete seasons so far:
- Pre-NBA hype realized and winning rookie of the year
- Consecutive all star appearances since their 2nd year and a fringe MVP candidate (though Bron was 2nd in 2006)
- 4x All-NBA nods (Luka has 4x 1st team and Bron had 2x 1st & 2x 2nds)

Even without a chip yet (Bron in his 9th season), the playoff success is what separates the two. Luka had 2 first round exits + a WCF
and Bron sandwiched in 2x 2nd round G7 losses with his early 2007 Finals run. All that could change with Luka finally equipped with a bonfire 2nd option and a balanced championship caliber roster to make a real run again this year.

The 6th plus year is what I believe you guys are alluding to with the high possibility of separation in their trajectories. Bron rattled off 4 MVPs, 2 Chips, and combo 1st team All Defense & NBA in his next 5 years to close out his 1st Cavs and then Miami Tenure.

On topic:
Wilt retired in 73, obviously there have been a slew of ATGs to knock him down a few pegs. Basketball at the end of the day is a team sport and when you have only won 2x in 14 years despite how dominating you were to your peers, it's going to leave opportunity for guys to catapult themselves ahead.

LeBron arguably has the best NBA career in NBA history and at year 21 its only going to keep continuing with his level of play. 4 Chips isn't the most but its more than enough to hold his place for the rest of time.

[BodieB]

Well for one there's actual footage of LeBron for reference to how good he was.

[og15]

It might be time for us to get OP off the laptop, phone, whatever it is. There should be a limit of nonsense threads made before you get your thread making privileges taken away.

You’re right. This forum seems like it’s patrolled by a bunch of kids who probably started watching the NBA around 2000 yet act like they have the requisite perspective to opine about players, teams, strategies and philosophies from earlier basketball eras. The mods seem to back up these kids to keep the status quo around here. Forgive me for thinking outside of the box with my topics and for trying to engage in a spirited debate. I’ll leave you to yourselves

Whenever we look at poster join dates or any sort of age poll, we find that most posters on the website are between like 30-50. Calling people who disagree or have different opinions kids is one of those internet flex / attempted superiority type things.

These types of agenda type topics about some ATG player are not out of the box, they are par the course, sorry to burst your bubble, but you're not doing anything novel or interesting.

[art_tatum]

I will say in this current generation of stars, I think curry's legacy will age the best. Especially when the younger kids who grew up playing the game like him become adults. He changed the game, not visually a genetic freak athlete so more relatable, legacy all on one team, visually iconic and pleasing game, the few games or series he choked will be not as prominent over time.

I don't think Lebron will really drop bc I expect years of marketing and pr after his retirement for his other ventures, but I don't think he will suddenly become majority GOAT in peoples eyes. Even with a last dance like documentary.
Out of the top ten imo I think Kobe would've dropped but bc of his tragic passing it'll keep him up there. Duncan and Hakeem will probably be pushed out by new players. Maybe shaq too.

[Snakebites]

So who are the 10 guys not currently above him who are going to get there?

[ryguy613]

[Hair Jordan]

Well for one there's actual footage of LeBron for reference to how good he was.

90% of the responses on this thread are frighteningly nearsighted. They’ll invent ways to measure players in 30-40 years that you can’t possibly imagine in real time and some talking head on RealGm in 2054 will say “there’s actual ABC for reference as to how good player XYZ was and we don’t have that for Lebron.” They’ll discredit Lebron and his era like others have discredited Wilt and his era on this very thread.

[Hair Jordan]

It might be time for us to get OP off the laptop, phone, whatever it is. There should be a limit of nonsense threads made before you get your thread making privileges taken away.

You’re right. This forum seems like it’s patrolled by a bunch of kids who probably started watching the NBA around 2000 yet act like they have the requisite perspective to opine about players, teams, strategies and philosophies from earlier basketball eras. The mods seem to back up these kids to keep the status quo around here. Forgive me for thinking outside of the box with my topics and for trying to engage in a spirited debate. I’ll leave you to yourselves

Whenever we look at poster join dates or any sort of age poll, we find that most posters on the website are between like 30-50. Calling people who disagree or have different opinions kids is one of those internet flex / attempted superiority type things.

These types of agenda type topics about some ATG player are not out of the box, they are par the course, sorry to burst your bubble, but your not doing anything novel or interesting.

Wrong. If you ask a bunch of 19 year old kids what kind of music they prefer, they’ll choose top 40 radio songs from today and not music from the 70’s, 80’s or 90’s. The fact that so many people on these boards trash anything pre 1980 only proves my thesis that these threads are polluted by youngsters.

[Hair Jordan]

So who are the 10 guys not currently above him who are going to get there?

Hard to say. Some of them are still wearing diapers and a few others haven’t been conceived yet. Kinda like asking someone in 1983 “who’s gonna push West/Oscar/Elgin/Pettit/Cousy/Havlicek/Erving etc out of the top 10?” Would’ve been hard to guess Lebron since he hadn’t been born yet

[CodeBreaker]

LeBron would still be top 5 at least in 30 years.

[MavsDirk41]

-KD, Wade and Steph - worse peaks, worse playoff performances, less longevity
-Harden - lol
-Davis and Zion failed to live up to the hype
-Jokic and Giannis are the surprise superstars but both peaks hit too late and Giannis already has more playoff failures than LeBron and a worse peak. I can’t see Jokic getting there
-Doncic looked like the next guy but hasn’t had same trajectory as LeBron
-Maybe Wemby?

That’s 20 years and 0 players with comparable peak or longevity. You need both.

Exactly, and even KD acknowledged how difficult it is to accomplish what LeBron has:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ho7UjtoE-tc

Wemby has a chance but he must be "Wemby" until he retires. LeBron's averaging 25/7/8 in year 21...like, what are we really talking about here?

I just think about how Doncic's rookie year we got all these people hyping him up as the guy to surpass LeBron, but not even 5 years later he's already off track

It's hard to do, to put it mildly. Especially since right now the league is at its most even, in the last 3 years no team has repeated even making the Finals (I looked and that hasn't been done since the 80s I think), let alone the fact that each of the last 5 champions have been a different team, with 2 of those 5 having never won a title before, and the Bucks not winning since 1971

Right now we're in an era of unprecedented parity. Objectively it's a great time to be a fan of the sport, but we got all these salty old boomers complaining still.

No it was a great time to be a fan of the sport in the 90s as well regardless of your thoughts

[Hair Jordan]

I will say in this current generation of stars, I think curry's legacy will age the best. Especially when the younger kids who grew up playing the game like him become adults. He changed the game, not visually a genetic freak athlete so more relatable, legacy all on one team, visually iconic and pleasing game, the few games or series he choked will be not as prominent over time.

I don't think Lebron will really drop bc I expect years of marketing and pr after his retirement for his other ventures, but I don't think he will suddenly become majority GOAT in peoples eyes. Even with a last dance like documentary.
Out of the top ten imo I think Kobe would've dropped but bc of his tragic passing it'll keep him up there. Duncan and Hakeem will probably be pushed out by new players. Maybe shaq too.

You have Kobe in your top 10? He’s more like 15-20 if you ask me. If he wasn’t traded to LA on draft night, spent his entire career in Charlotte and never paired up with Shaq, Phil and then Pau, I think his career arc is among the likes of Vince Carter. Lots of highlights. No hardware.

[DOT]

No it was a great time to be a fan of the sport in the 90s as well regardless of your thoughts

Did I say it wasn't?

God, y'all are so sensitive

Can't even take any praise about the modern day without immediately getting mad and going off about how the past was better, like chill man.

[JonFromVA]

Wilts records are so unbelievable, folks think they are lies. Just recently, the 100 point game came under question.

I'm not sure what you mean by under question, but it was an artificial achievement that Wilt and his team intentionally pushed for knowing the opportunity was there and it would make history. It's spared complete ridicule because Wilt has/had so many other high scoring games.

Kobe scored 60 pts in his last game .vs. Utah because both teams were trying to honor him. If for fun they pushed it to 101 though, it just would have been a sham.

[JonFromVA]

We have actual uplift data for LeBron, we have anecdotes for Wilt. James' accomplishments will not age badly, but recency bias will favor him in the short term and cost him in the long-term.

Just how it goes ...

[BodieB]

Well for one there's actual footage of LeBron for reference to how good he was.

90% of the responses on this thread are frighteningly nearsighted. They’ll invent ways to measure players in 30-40 years that you can’t possibly imagine in real time and some talking head on RealGm in 2054 will say “there’s actual ABC for reference as to how good player XYZ was and we don’t have that for Lebron.” They’ll discredit Lebron and his era like others have discredited Wilt and his era on this very thread.

Feel free to bump this is 40 years to say "I told you so."