Main reason Jordan is the GOAT

[ChipotleWest]

Jordan is a better version of Kobe. They were essentially twins with Jordan being a bit better. Play style, shot selection, BBIQ, mentality, it’s all basically the same.

Would you say Kobe could “run” an offense? I mean yeah, he ran an effective offense but his way of running it was so that he was the guy getting all the shots. Which is fine, he was a great shot maker. It’s the same thing with Jordan. The actual PG for the Bulls if anything was Pippen.

LeBron otoh is up there with Magic and Nash as one of the greatest overall offensive minds ever as a primary ball handler…while being able to score in a way they could only dream of.

Why does Lebron have less rings? Especially considering he's in year 21 and Jordan played 15. It's not because he didn't have good enough teammates. He should have had at least one dynasty but never did.

[One_and_Done]

Jordan is a better version of Kobe. They were essentially twins with Jordan being a bit better. Play style, shot selection, BBIQ, mentality, it’s all basically the same.

Would you say Kobe could “run” an offense? I mean yeah, he ran an effective offense but his way of running it was so that he was the guy getting all the shots. Which is fine, he was a great shot maker. It’s the same thing with Jordan. The actual PG for the Bulls if anything was Pippen.

LeBron otoh is up there with Magic and Nash as one of the greatest overall offensive minds ever as a primary ball handler…while being able to score in a way they could only dream of.

And Kobe wouldn't even be a top 10 player today, so saying Jordan is probably top 5 sounds about right.

[Jta444]

Jordan would likely be a top 5 player if he played today, but I doubt anyone would consider him the GOAT. The 90s sucked compared to today's league.

Jordan won titles in the ‘90’s with Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Ray Allen, KG etc in the league and all those guys won titles with Lebron in the league. So Lebron was getting his ass handed to him by ‘90’s players but go on with your anti 90’s rant. Enthrall me with your acumen

Not to mention Hakeem, David Robinson, Mutombo, Malone, Mourning etc those dudes would mop the floor in todays league

[ChipotleWest]

Daddy Dwayne had to teach Lebron how to win, but couldn't get him there in time for 2011 when the Heat were heavily favored.

[FuShengTHEGreat]

There’s one thing about Jordan and the Bulls championship run that nobody ever talks about or even remembers; they won every game they HAD to win. Every MUST WIN game was won.

1991: Bulls lose game 1 of the Finals at home. Game 2 was a must win or else they go down 0-2 with the next three games in LA. They won game 2. Game 3 was a must win in order to get HCA back. They won game 3.

1992: Bulls lose game 1 of the ECSF at home to the Knicks. Game 2 was a must win or else they go down 0-2 with the next two games in NY. They won game 2. Game 3 was a must win to get HCA back. They won game 3. Game 7 was obviously a must win game or the season is over. They won game 7.

Bulls lose game 2 of the ECF to the Cavs. They need to win game 3 to get HCA back. They won game 3.

Bulls lose game 2 of the Finals at home to the Blazers. Game 3 is a must win to get HCA back. They won game 3. With the series tied 2-2, game 5 in Portland was a must win to avoid going down 2-3. They won game 5.

1993: Bulls lose games 1 and 2 in NY. Games 3 and 4 are must win games to avoid going down 3-1. They won both games. Game 5 in NY is a must win to avoid giving back HCA to NY. They won game 5.

1997: With the Finals tied 2-2, the Bulls need to win game 5 to maintain HCA and avoid falling into a 3-2 deficit. They won game 5 (Jordan’s “Flu Game”).

1998: With the series tied 3-3 against Indiana in the ECF, the Bulls must win game 7 to avoid elimination. They won game 7.

With the Bulls down 0-1 in the Finals against Utah, they need to win game 2 to avoid an 0-2 deficit. They won game 2. Next, they need to win game 3 to maintain HCA. They won game 3.

People talk about Jordan not losing more than 2 consecutive games from Nov 1991 thru June of 1998 all the time but nobody ever talks about Jordan and his Bulls winning every game they HAD to win during their championship run. Outside of Bill Russell, who else can make this claim? That’s why he’s the GOAT in my opinion.

So by your logic regarding the bolded.....Hakeem is the GOAT as well. 5 must win or go home games facing elimination.. 3 of them on the road. All in the same playoffs.

Winning 5 straight win or go home playoff games sounds like a lot more daunting and impressive achievement than the aforementioned you posted.

I'm just asking according to your logic.

[One_and_Done]

Jordan would likely be a top 5 player if he played today, but I doubt anyone would consider him the GOAT. The 90s sucked compared to today's league.

Jordan won titles in the ‘90’s with Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Ray Allen, KG etc in the league and all those guys won titles with Lebron in the league. So Lebron was getting his ass handed to him by ‘90’s players but go on with your anti 90’s rant. Enthrall me with your acumen

Not to mention Hakeem, David Robinson, Mutombo, Malone, Mourning etc those dudes would mop the floor in todays league

Some would translate, others wouldn't. Mutombo would be considerably worse today.

[FuShengTHEGreat]

So you want to ignore the 6 other championships and focus on one series loss where he missed a full year then all but 17 games in the season? Lebron doesn't get enough of this scrutiny with an eye glass.

Ok I'll even give you that one with Jordan, why does he still have more rings than any of the GOAT contenders since Russell? Lebron played longer, why isn't he at least tied? Not even one less LOL!

What does LBJ have to do with any of this? Where have I said anything about him? LOL.... I'm not someone who gets into these Shannon vs Stephen A Smith LBJ vs MJ debates. It matters not to me who people think is better between the two.

I'm just asking as to why what I mentioned gets skipped over by the OP and the bulk of his fanbase. Wasn't game 6 at home a must win game?

Who cares if he lost a series? He's a human being, since you won't accept that he was out for nearly two full years ok he lost a series he's human no one cares but you not even his biggest haters bring that up.

Again.....why is this skipped over by the OP? That's what I want to know

[Slink]

How much credit does Phil Jackson get for Jordan winning 6? I'm just curious if people think LeBron would have gotten more rings if he had Phil as coach.

[Archx]

MJ would average 40, quite easily if he wanted too. The amount of spacing in todays' league, MJ would have a freeway to the rim. Also with MJs' ability to cause turnovers (3X steals leader), he would be piling up points in transition.

If you forget all the double or triple teams and blitzes... sure. But in a real world it doesn't always go like that. Otherwise nr1 scorer in the league right now would also average over 40ppg. If anything i would argue he could have potentially averaged more assists than anyone rather than points.

[Heej]

Closest I've ever seen to MJ in any sport was Tiger Woods. You got towards the 12th hole up against Tiger and without even looking at you, he would have guys so intimidated they started making mistakes. Not just some guys either, every guy.

That's how MJ was. There wasn't a guy in the league who thought he could beat Jordan when it mattered. He had them all on strings and they knew it.

Magic, Bird, and Isiah were never afraid of Jordan. And there was no one else of that caliber in the league during the 90s other than Hakeem, whom Jordan was legitimately afraid of and was quoted as saying the Bulls had no answer for. Seems like this is more of a knock on 90s comp than a compliment to Jordan seeing as how no one in the 80s was actually afraid of him

[Heej]

Daddy Dwayne had to teach Lebron how to win, but couldn't get him there in time for 2011 when the Heat were heavily favored.

One 2010s ring is worth 2 90s rings LMAO

[Sedale Threatt]

How much credit does Phil Jackson get for Jordan winning 6? I'm just curious if people think LeBron would have gotten more rings if he had Phil as coach.

It's a players game. And obviously Kobe developing made a huge difference. But all I know about Phil is that we went from getting our asses completely kicked in the playoffs every year to winning three straight titles.

[Lockdown504090]

Daddy Dwayne had to teach Lebron how to win, but couldn't get him there in time for 2011 when the Heat were heavily favored.

What does things even mean? This is embarrassing. Would Wade have beat the spurs in 07?

[dygaction]

There’s one thing about Jordan and the Bulls championship run that nobody ever talks about or even remembers; they won every game they HAD to win. Every MUST WIN game was won.

1991: Bulls lose game 1 of the Finals at home. Game 2 was a must win or else they go down 0-2 with the next three games in LA. They won game 2. Game 3 was a must win in order to get HCA back. They won game 3.

1992: Bulls lose game 1 of the ECSF at home to the Knicks. Game 2 was a must win or else they go down 0-2 with the next two games in NY. They won game 2. Game 3 was a must win to get HCA back. They won game 3. Game 7 was obviously a must win game or the season is over. They won game 7.

Bulls lose game 2 of the ECF to the Cavs. They need to win game 3 to get HCA back. They won game 3.

Bulls lose game 2 of the Finals at home to the Blazers. Game 3 is a must win to get HCA back. They won game 3. With the series tied 2-2, game 5 in Portland was a must win to avoid going down 2-3. They won game 5.

1993: Bulls lose games 1 and 2 in NY. Games 3 and 4 are must win games to avoid going down 3-1. They won both games. Game 5 in NY is a must win to avoid giving back HCA to NY. They won game 5.

1997: With the Finals tied 2-2, the Bulls need to win game 5 to maintain HCA and avoid falling into a 3-2 deficit. They won game 5 (Jordan’s “Flu Game”).

1998: With the series tied 3-3 against Indiana in the ECF, the Bulls must win game 7 to avoid elimination. They won game 7.

With the Bulls down 0-1 in the Finals against Utah, they need to win game 2 to avoid an 0-2 deficit. They won game 2. Next, they need to win game 3 to maintain HCA. They won game 3.

People talk about Jordan not losing more than 2 consecutive games from Nov 1991 thru June of 1998 all the time but nobody ever talks about Jordan and his Bulls winning every game they HAD to win during their championship run. Outside of Bill Russell, who else can make this claim? That’s why he’s the GOAT in my opinion.

Or they did not lose games they could not afford to lose ..

[Sofia]

Jordan would likely be a top 5 player if he played today, but I doubt anyone would consider him the GOAT. The 90s sucked compared to today's league.

Jordan won titles in the ‘90’s with Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Ray Allen, KG etc in the league and all those guys won titles with Lebron in the league. So Lebron was getting his ass handed to him by ‘90’s players but go on with your anti 90’s rant. Enthrall me with your acumen

Did Kobe even have pubes when Jordan won his last title?

[One_and_Done]

MJ would average 40, quite easily if he wanted too. The amount of spacing in todays' league, MJ would have a freeway to the rim. Also with MJs' ability to cause turnovers (3X steals leader), he would be piling up points in transition.

If you forget all the double or triple teams and blitzes... sure. But in a real world it doesn't always go like that. Otherwise nr1 scorer in the league right now would also average over 40ppg. If anything i would argue he could have potentially averaged more assists than anyone rather than points.

You couldn't even double guys properly back then due to illegal defence rules. One of the more impressive aspects about Duncan is that his peak came without illegal D in place.

[One_and_Done]

Here is game 2 of the 1999 finals. Much more recent than most of Jordan's titles.
https://youtu.be/mqecRUgoi5w?si=4cKm1dLvD7IREdJk

Go watch the teams on D. They are mostly standing around watching while the point guard sets up an iso. The three is barely guarded. Now watch a finals game today. Guys are sprinting all around the court trying to guard the elaborate motion and high PnR acrion on the perimeter. It's so obvious which is more exhaustng.

[Vampirate]

In the end if you think Lebron is better nothing is going to change your mind.

If you think Jordan is better nothing is going to change your mind.

[ryguy613]

In the end if you think Lebron is better nothing is going to change your mind.

If you think Jordan is better nothing is going to change your mind.

which is why it would be great if we could move on from this boring ass debate.

[Slink]

In the end if you think Lebron is better nothing is going to change your mind.

If you think Jordan is better nothing is going to change your mind.

which is why it would be great if we could move on from this boring ass debate.

Either camp will always try to knock the other down when ever they can.