What has Jayson Tatum done that justifies him being ahead of LeBron on All NBA again?

[tsherkin]

Lebron is overrated at this point.
I wouldn't say he's an empty-stats guy, but his stats oversell his impact and people that watch the games know why.

He certainly isn't his peak self anymore, but his stats don't oversell him at all.

[Marrrcuss]

If you swapped Tatum and LeBron, do the Celtics get better and the Lakers worse?

Not sure what kind of defense 38 year old LeBron is playing when he stopped playing defense when he rejoined Cleveland.

Why do you all keep trying to push that bullshyt narrative? While hes no all game defensive stopper, hes far from the speed bump yall try to make him just from hate.

Idk man I have been watching since 05 and catch about 40+ games a year and have seen him in his prime, and at all stages, and I have eyes. To say he is now who he was back during the first Cavs and Heat runs is to disrespect how high of a level he was at back then. To say he is currently a better defender night in night out than Tatum in the REGULAR SEASON is funny.

If LeBron is 1st team then how come with a running mate like AD they are only good for 41 wins. Lakers have had tons of good role players come through, hes got a top 15-20 player and hes in the play in on a 41 win team. LeBron is great. No one is saying he isn't. It's the reality of 39 playing the regular season.

Our biggest off season free agent has played 5 games. Vando has played 29. Bron played through his injuries and in case we forgot, is old as dirt.
I get that the GOAT debate made it so folks stopped looking at full pictures but the lakers have been a mash unit for a lot of the year.

[C3H6N6O6]

Someone from Celtics has to be first team and Tatum is their best player. It is also not like he is averaging 20 ppg. He is averaging 27.
Tatum will be first team and LeBron will be third team or may be second if Lakers somehow get to 48 wins and he averages 30+ in the next 9 games.

I would still pick LeBron over Tatum in the playoffs. LeBron tries harder on defense in playoffs and I'd rather sacrifice a little bit of defense for a player who is a natural playmaker.

[Woodsanity]

Just like the Mavs, the Lakers have an abysmal coach. This is a big reason why their record is mediocre.

[Triple M]

When was the last time the best team not have a player make the All NBA1st team?

No one said anything about Jaylen Brown not making it.

What does JB have to do with what i said? Im talking about the 1st team not the other all NBA teams

[Godymas]

What about KD OP?

advanced stats below both

[Godymas]

Someone from Celtics has to be first team and Tatum is their best player. It is also not like he is averaging 20 ppg. He is averaging 27.
Tatum will be first team and LeBron will be third team or may be second if Lakers somehow get to 48 wins and he averages 30+ in the next 9 games.

I would still pick LeBron over Tatum in the playoffs. LeBron tries harder on defense in playoffs and I'd rather sacrifice a little bit of defense for a player who is a natural playmaker.

no, someone from the Celtics doesn't have to be first team

no one from the 2020-2021 Utah Jazz made All NBA 1st team, but here's an even better one

No one from the 2016-2017 Warriors made All NBA 1st team, go check

no one from the 2013-2014 Spurs made All NBA 1st team

[RB34]

As I’ve said all season.

Somehow the Celtics are an incredibly stacked team and they should get no credit for anything.

Considering we’re constantly told all the players suck and are overrated…… how can this be?

[levon]

I'm not an EPM guy but EPM has LeBron higher, both on offense and defense. And I think this healthy version of Bron is a better played than Tatum. So... not sure. I'd say they're about the same tier at this point for season awards.

[Franco]

This logic is so flawed, and you know it Besides the fact that James hasn't been the defender that Tatum is currently for well over a decade now, he's also just playing better basketball.

I love this type of logic though. It means Jerry Stackhouse should have won MVP in 2001 over AI. I mean Stack averaged 30/4/5 on 45/45/85 whereas Iverson only averaged 31/4/5 on 42/32/82. Funny how you don't hear many people talking about how Stackhouse got robbed, and questioning why he isn't part of the all decade team.

Some of you people are actually shameless, but can you at least not throw such obvious **** that can be fact checked in 15 seconds on basketball reference?

Stackhouse barely shot 40% from the field that season, much less from the damn 3 point line.

[tsherkin]

I love this type of logic though. It means Jerry Stackhouse should have won MVP in 2001 over AI. I mean Stack averaged 30/4/5 on 45/45/85 whereas Iverson only averaged 31/4/5 on 42/32/82. Funny how you don't hear many people talking about how Stackhouse got robbed, and questioning why he isn't part of the all decade team.

Lying through your teeth isn't a good look.

During AI's 00-01 MVP season, Stackhouse averaged 29.8 ppg on 40.2% FG (24.1 FGA/g), 35.1% (5.9 3PA/g) and 82.2% (10.1 FTA/g) for a net TS% of 52.1% against a league average of 51.8%, so an rTS of +0.3% and a TS+ of 101.

Definitely not 45/45/85.

[Frank Dux]

Just like the Mavs, the Lakers have an abysmal coach. This is a big reason why their record is mediocre.

Not just coaching. Talent as well. The Celtics are absolutely stacked and deep compared to the Lakers.

[cupcakesnake]

I'm not an EPM guy but EPM has LeBron higher, both on offense and defense. And I think this healthy version of Bron is a better played than Tatum. So... not sure. I'd say they're about the same tier at this point for season awards.

I like EPM but they have nearly identical EPM scores. Lebron is +0.5 in overall EPM, and Tatum is +0.4 in their "Estimated Wins" stat. Looking at their model, guys within a point of each other aren't really different.

I like EPM's defensive metric better than I like almost any other, but more in a big picture way. It's not reliable overall player to player for making comparisons. Too many really goofy scores. I can't imagine watching film on Lebron and Tatum and thinking they're in the same tiers as defensive impact guys.

I agree though that these guys are in the same tier of overall impact. I don't see Tatum as being obviously better than Lebron.

[MrBigShot]

They are close enough that you have to reward winning, + tatum plays both ends.

[ghillphx]

OP gtfo. Seriously. Watch basketball instead of reading numbers.

[PierceFan4ever]

You’re right, Lebron should be first team all nba being the second best player on a play in team.

[NbaAllDay]

Tatum's D is better and that's the easy separator.

I do find the 'better team' concept silly as you are equating team success to individual success. It's the Rangz argument.

In saying that individual performance impacts the team but if you can't seperate 2 players impact on said team and simply say one is better than the other for your arguement it carries 0 weight imo.

[CIN-C-STAR]

Lebron is overrated at this point.
I wouldn't say he's an empty-stats guy, but his stats oversell his impact and people that watch the games know why.

He certainly isn't his peak self anymore, but his stats don't oversell him at all.

Well then it's very curious how a team with two All-NBA players, who have been remarkably healthy all season, is basically a middle-of-the-pack, average squad that might not even make the playoffs -- 14th best record in the association, 9th best in the West, barely positive differential (+0.3).

I guess Lebron & AD must have the worst supporting cast of all time

[Iwasawitness]

Everytime I watch the Lakers play, I notice more and more that LeBron isn't just taking plays off on defense anymore. He's literally doing it on offense too.

If he's not involved in the offensive possession, he's not going to put any effort into getting down the court in a timely fashion. Quite the opposite. He takes his sweet old time and looks like he's going for a stroll through the park. That isn't winning basketball.

LeBron is the GOAT. He's built up a well deserved reputation for being someone that can make any team he's on a winning one. But right now? At this point in his career? He doesn't play winning basketball. And I'm willing to bet that's been the case since 2022. I wouldn't expect him to give 100% anymore, given his age, given his future goals (wanting to play with his son), and given the insane mileage he has. 20 years in the league, oldest player in the league, yeah, I expect him to play like one.

Truth be told, I don't know why anyone would want LeBron on their team anymore. I'm sure if he gave everything he had for one game, he'd be the best player on the court no matter who was playing. But we don't have that anymore. We have a man who knows we're playing 82 games on the season so is only going to give full effort when he feels like it.

That, to me, isn't someone who deserves all-NBA over the guy leading his team to the best record in the league.

[FarBeyondDriven]

Tatum doesn't take plays off. He's the better defender. He doesn't enjoy the defensive indifference like Lebron does due to AD's gravity. He also isn't protected by the league like Bron so he doesn't get a friendly whistle. And last but not least, he doesn't pad his stats. With the Celtics winning and often winning big, Tatum isn't padding stats in late situations and he for sure isn't still in games on the rare occasion they're down big like we've seen with Lebron.