Main reason Lebron is the GOAT

[NoDopeOnSundays]

How can I explain plausible realistic scenario around a hypothetical? We have LeBron team hopping multiple times and doing the same tactic in 2 instances, why would Jordan be less successful employing the same tactic?

Because for starters, that's not how this works. You can't just apply the "it worked for one player, why wouldn't it work for the other" argument and expect that to fly. That's a lazy and contrived narrative that can be picked apart with even the slightest amount of thought being put into it.

LeBron and Jordan have drastically different playstyles. LeBron controls the offense a lot more, is more adaptable and can impact the game in more ways. This is undeniable, regardless of which side of the fence you are on (note that this doesn't mean I'm calling LeBron the better player, I am simply stating a point in regards to this comparison). That in return allows LeBron to play within different systems. Jordan's not capable of doing that. His style of play would have a far more severe impact on his teammates than LeBron. People tend to forget that one of the key factors in Jordan thriving was having a coach who ran a system that was perfectly built for someone like him with teammates who fit him perfectly. LeBron never had this kind of fortune, in any of the situations he found himself in.

I just used the Bucks as an example, what if Jordan came back in 95 and joined the Magic, which would be similar to LeBron joining the Heat.

Again, if you even bothered giving ever so slight amount of thought into what you were saying, you wouldn't say something like this.

You're telling me that Jordan coming in and joining the Magic, who already had experience playing alongside each other, developed actual chemistry, and already had two star players, is similar to LeBron joining a team that practically had to start from scratch? LeBron wasn't the only one coming into the fray, Chris Bosh was also joining in on the matter. And I'm sorry, where is that second superstar that was already with Wade? Oh, he's not there? Okay, pretty bad start for your comparison. And what's this? Orlando doesn't have to fill out the rest of their roster with aged and in some cases way past their prime players who wouldn't get minutes on any other team? Well who are they getting? HORACE GRANT?! Well then in that case, this is absolutely nothing at all like LeBron joining the Magic (EDIT: Heat, I'm an idiot). It's more equivalent to Durant joining the Warriors if anything.

What if in 89 after another playoffs flame out he had left and joined the Spurs, they were coming off a 21-61 season and were getting a rookie Robinson, would have been similar to LeBron joining Kyrie + all their lottery picks.

And once again, no it wouldn't. This one I shouldn't have to explain. If I do, I am seriously questioning where your head is at in this process.

Do you think Jordan and Robinson wouldn't have ran the decade?

Omg, I actually have to explain it.

Of course they would. But in what world is Kyrie Irving in ANYWAY comparable to David Robinson? You are talking about the guy who won an MVP award at one point for crying out loud. Irving on the other hand even at his best was never even in the conversation. David Robinson was an elite two way player who had a 70 point game once, on top of having a quadruple double, AND won DPOY at one point. Irving on the other hand, as gifted an offensive player as he is, was still at the end of the day a one dimensional player. In what way is Kyrie Irving comparable to David Robinson? You tell me. This is an incredibly silly comparison and you know it.

A more accurate one, if we're going on the flip side here (and by that I mean comparing to what Jordan/Robinson is) would be asking "what would happen if LeBron's Cavaliers got Dwight Howard in the draft after his rookie season". LeBron and Howard no doubt would run the decade. Hell, they'd probably have a dynasty comparable to Jordan's Bulls.

There's many instances I can point to and just ask what if Jordan had played it like LeBron. You don't even need to use LeBron either, Dirk probably has 2-3 titles if he pushes for a trade or signs with lets say the Magic in 07, he had a ETO around that time. Does he not end up in a better situation being paired with Dwight? The main point is, nobody else has done what LeBron did, looking for the absolute best situation to come into and then have them make moves because they had recent lottery picks, I don't even need to bring up the Heat that much either, just going back to the Cavs and then the Lakers while employing the same method is enough. Trade for Love, trade for AD, make ancillary trades around that, title, rinse and repeat. If he were younger he'd do it again, probably the Rockets.

You seem to be missing the point I'm trying to make. No one is denying that LeBron tried to put himself in more favorable situations. You are implying that Jordan would have automatically found immediate success far greater than what LeBron had if he took the path LeBron did.

Ignoring the fact that Jordan never needed too because he, unlike LeBron, was actually given what he needed to succeed, Jordan cannot adapt in the same matter to other systems LeBron can. Call it whatever you want. Hell, you can point out that LeBron IS the system and you'd be 100% correct on that, but that just adds further credibility to the point that just because it worked for one guy, that doesn't mean it's going to work for the other. Ask Kevin Durant how well being on other superteams has worked out for him. It's not easy and more often than not, it doesn't work. LeBron succeeding at it twice has made people think it's a sure-fire way to success and it's not.

Jordan got bounced from the playoffs in 88-89, Robinson was a rookie in 89-90 He wasn't a DPOY or MVP at that point, using Bronmaths there should be no problem with an MVP player like Jordan joining a team coming off a 21-61 season with an unproven young player, right?

Also, you lost me when you said Jordan cannot adapt to other systems like LeBron, just ridiculous. I don't care about this nearly as much as you do, Bron will never be on the same level as MJ though.

[Hair Jordan]

Because for starters, that's not how this works. You can't just apply the "it worked for one player, why wouldn't it work for the other" argument and expect that to fly. That's a lazy and contrived narrative that can be picked apart with even the slightest amount of thought being put into it.

LeBron and Jordan have drastically different playstyles. LeBron controls the offense a lot more, is more adaptable and can impact the game in more ways. This is undeniable, regardless of which side of the fence you are on (note that this doesn't mean I'm calling LeBron the better player, I am simply stating a point in regards to this comparison). That in return allows LeBron to play within different systems. Jordan's not capable of doing that. His style of play would have a far more severe impact on his teammates than LeBron. People tend to forget that one of the key factors in Jordan thriving was having a coach who ran a system that was perfectly built for someone like him with teammates who fit him perfectly. LeBron never had this kind of fortune, in any of the situations he found himself in.



Again, if you even bothered giving ever so slight amount of thought into what you were saying, you wouldn't say something like this.

You're telling me that Jordan coming in and joining the Magic, who already had experience playing alongside each other, developed actual chemistry, and already had two star players, is similar to LeBron joining a team that practically had to start from scratch? LeBron wasn't the only one coming into the fray, Chris Bosh was also joining in on the matter. And I'm sorry, where is that second superstar that was already with Wade? Oh, he's not there? Okay, pretty bad start for your comparison. And what's this? Orlando doesn't have to fill out the rest of their roster with aged and in some cases way past their prime players who wouldn't get minutes on any other team? Well who are they getting? HORACE GRANT?! Well then in that case, this is absolutely nothing at all like LeBron joining the Magic (EDIT: Heat, I'm an idiot). It's more equivalent to Durant joining the Warriors if anything.



And once again, no it wouldn't. This one I shouldn't have to explain. If I do, I am seriously questioning where your head is at in this process.



Omg, I actually have to explain it.

Of course they would. But in what world is Kyrie Irving in ANYWAY comparable to David Robinson? You are talking about the guy who won an MVP award at one point for crying out loud. Irving on the other hand even at his best was never even in the conversation. David Robinson was an elite two way player who had a 70 point game once, on top of having a quadruple double, AND won DPOY at one point. Irving on the other hand, as gifted an offensive player as he is, was still at the end of the day a one dimensional player. In what way is Kyrie Irving comparable to David Robinson? You tell me. This is an incredibly silly comparison and you know it.

A more accurate one, if we're going on the flip side here (and by that I mean comparing to what Jordan/Robinson is) would be asking "what would happen if LeBron's Cavaliers got Dwight Howard in the draft after his rookie season". LeBron and Howard no doubt would run the decade. Hell, they'd probably have a dynasty comparable to Jordan's Bulls.



You seem to be missing the point I'm trying to make. No one is denying that LeBron tried to put himself in more favorable situations. You are implying that Jordan would have automatically found immediate success far greater than what LeBron had if he took the path LeBron did.

Ignoring the fact that Jordan never needed too because he, unlike LeBron, was actually given what he needed to succeed, Jordan cannot adapt in the same matter to other systems LeBron can. Call it whatever you want. Hell, you can point out that LeBron IS the system and you'd be 100% correct on that, but that just adds further credibility to the point that just because it worked for one guy, that doesn't mean it's going to work for the other. Ask Kevin Durant how well being on other superteams has worked out for him. It's not easy and more often than not, it doesn't work. LeBron succeeding at it twice has made people think it's a sure-fire way to success and it's not.

Dumbest take ever. Give Jordan one All Star (Scottie Pippen) and he 3-peats. Give Jordan Pippen and 10 completely different teammates and he 3-peats again.

You have no right to call anyone's take "dumb" after you just got done this saying abortion of a statement the other day:

Jordan won titles in the ‘90’s with Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Ray Allen, KG etc in the league and all those guys won titles with Lebron in the league. So Lebron was getting his ass handed to him by ‘90’s players but go on with your anti 90’s rant. Enthrall me with your acumen

Do yourself a favor: stick to talking with trolls. Don't try doing this with people who are clearly smarter than you. It won't end well.

I clearly have the right to call your take “dumb” It’s guaranteed by the 1st Amendment. Something about free speech. You may have heard of it. However, you have no right to call my comment an “abortion” since abortions are mostly illegal now. I hope you’re not pre law

[Iwasawitness]

How can I explain plausible realistic scenario around a hypothetical? We have LeBron team hopping multiple times and doing the same tactic in 2 instances, why would Jordan be less successful employing the same tactic?

Because for starters, that's not how this works. You can't just apply the "it worked for one player, why wouldn't it work for the other" argument and expect that to fly. That's a lazy and contrived narrative that can be picked apart with even the slightest amount of thought being put into it.

LeBron and Jordan have drastically different playstyles. LeBron controls the offense a lot more, is more adaptable and can impact the game in more ways. This is undeniable, regardless of which side of the fence you are on (note that this doesn't mean I'm calling LeBron the better player, I am simply stating a point in regards to this comparison). That in return allows LeBron to play within different systems. Jordan's not capable of doing that. His style of play would have a far more severe impact on his teammates than LeBron. People tend to forget that one of the key factors in Jordan thriving was having a coach who ran a system that was perfectly built for someone like him with teammates who fit him perfectly. LeBron never had this kind of fortune, in any of the situations he found himself in.

I just used the Bucks as an example, what if Jordan came back in 95 and joined the Magic, which would be similar to LeBron joining the Heat.

Again, if you even bothered giving ever so slight amount of thought into what you were saying, you wouldn't say something like this.

You're telling me that Jordan coming in and joining the Magic, who already had experience playing alongside each other, developed actual chemistry, and already had two star players, is similar to LeBron joining a team that practically had to start from scratch? LeBron wasn't the only one coming into the fray, Chris Bosh was also joining in on the matter. And I'm sorry, where is that second superstar that was already with Wade? Oh, he's not there? Okay, pretty bad start for your comparison. And what's this? Orlando doesn't have to fill out the rest of their roster with aged and in some cases way past their prime players who wouldn't get minutes on any other team? Well who are they getting? HORACE GRANT?! Well then in that case, this is absolutely nothing at all like LeBron joining the Magic (EDIT: Heat, I'm an idiot). It's more equivalent to Durant joining the Warriors if anything.

What if in 89 after another playoffs flame out he had left and joined the Spurs, they were coming off a 21-61 season and were getting a rookie Robinson, would have been similar to LeBron joining Kyrie + all their lottery picks.

And once again, no it wouldn't. This one I shouldn't have to explain. If I do, I am seriously questioning where your head is at in this process.

Do you think Jordan and Robinson wouldn't have ran the decade?

Omg, I actually have to explain it.

Of course they would. But in what world is Kyrie Irving in ANYWAY comparable to David Robinson? You are talking about the guy who won an MVP award at one point for crying out loud. Irving on the other hand even at his best was never even in the conversation. David Robinson was an elite two way player who had a 70 point game once, on top of having a quadruple double, AND won DPOY at one point. Irving on the other hand, as gifted an offensive player as he is, was still at the end of the day a one dimensional player. In what way is Kyrie Irving comparable to David Robinson? You tell me. This is an incredibly silly comparison and you know it.

A more accurate one, if we're going on the flip side here (and by that I mean comparing to what Jordan/Robinson is) would be asking "what would happen if LeBron's Cavaliers got Dwight Howard in the draft after his rookie season". LeBron and Howard no doubt would run the decade. Hell, they'd probably have a dynasty comparable to Jordan's Bulls.

There's many instances I can point to and just ask what if Jordan had played it like LeBron. You don't even need to use LeBron either, Dirk probably has 2-3 titles if he pushes for a trade or signs with lets say the Magic in 07, he had a ETO around that time. Does he not end up in a better situation being paired with Dwight? The main point is, nobody else has done what LeBron did, looking for the absolute best situation to come into and then have them make moves because they had recent lottery picks, I don't even need to bring up the Heat that much either, just going back to the Cavs and then the Lakers while employing the same method is enough. Trade for Love, trade for AD, make ancillary trades around that, title, rinse and repeat. If he were younger he'd do it again, probably the Rockets.

You seem to be missing the point I'm trying to make. No one is denying that LeBron tried to put himself in more favorable situations. You are implying that Jordan would have automatically found immediate success far greater than what LeBron had if he took the path LeBron did.

Ignoring the fact that Jordan never needed too because he, unlike LeBron, was actually given what he needed to succeed, Jordan cannot adapt in the same matter to other systems LeBron can. Call it whatever you want. Hell, you can point out that LeBron IS the system and you'd be 100% correct on that, but that just adds further credibility to the point that just because it worked for one guy, that doesn't mean it's going to work for the other. Ask Kevin Durant how well being on other superteams has worked out for him. It's not easy and more often than not, it doesn't work. LeBron succeeding at it twice has made people think it's a sure-fire way to success and it's not.

Jordan got bounced from the playoffs in 88-89, Robinson was a rookie in 89-90 He wasn't a DPOY or MVP at that point, using Bronmaths there should be no problem with an MVP player like Jordan joining a team coming off a 21-61 season with an unproven young player, right?

Also, you lost me when you said Jordan cannot adapt to other systems like LeBron, just ridiculous. I don't care about this nearly as much as you do, Bron will never be on the same level as MJ though.

That doesn’t make the comparison any less idiotic. You are reaching big time with this one.

And no, he absolutely can’t. If you believe he can, by all means, prove it.

[Iwasawitness]

Dumbest take ever. Give Jordan one All Star (Scottie Pippen) and he 3-peats. Give Jordan Pippen and 10 completely different teammates and he 3-peats again.

You have no right to call anyone's take "dumb" after you just got done this saying abortion of a statement the other day:

Jordan won titles in the ‘90’s with Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Ray Allen, KG etc in the league and all those guys won titles with Lebron in the league. So Lebron was getting his ass handed to him by ‘90’s players but go on with your anti 90’s rant. Enthrall me with your acumen

Do yourself a favor: stick to talking with trolls. Don't try doing this with people who are clearly smarter than you. It won't end well.

I clearly have the right to call your take “dumb” It’s guaranteed by the 1st Amendment. Something about free speech. You may have heard of it. However, you have no right to call my comment an “abortion” since abortions are mostly illegal now. I hope you’re not pre law

Okay, thanks for giving me all the reasons I need to put you on mute. Moving on…

[NyKnicks1714]

Spoiler:

Because for starters, that's not how this works. You can't just apply the "it worked for one player, why wouldn't it work for the other" argument and expect that to fly. That's a lazy and contrived narrative that can be picked apart with even the slightest amount of thought being put into it.

LeBron and Jordan have drastically different playstyles. LeBron controls the offense a lot more, is more adaptable and can impact the game in more ways. This is undeniable, regardless of which side of the fence you are on (note that this doesn't mean I'm calling LeBron the better player, I am simply stating a point in regards to this comparison). That in return allows LeBron to play within different systems. Jordan's not capable of doing that. His style of play would have a far more severe impact on his teammates than LeBron. People tend to forget that one of the key factors in Jordan thriving was having a coach who ran a system that was perfectly built for someone like him with teammates who fit him perfectly. LeBron never had this kind of fortune, in any of the situations he found himself in.



Again, if you even bothered giving ever so slight amount of thought into what you were saying, you wouldn't say something like this.

You're telling me that Jordan coming in and joining the Magic, who already had experience playing alongside each other, developed actual chemistry, and already had two star players, is similar to LeBron joining a team that practically had to start from scratch? LeBron wasn't the only one coming into the fray, Chris Bosh was also joining in on the matter. And I'm sorry, where is that second superstar that was already with Wade? Oh, he's not there? Okay, pretty bad start for your comparison. And what's this? Orlando doesn't have to fill out the rest of their roster with aged and in some cases way past their prime players who wouldn't get minutes on any other team? Well who are they getting? HORACE GRANT?! Well then in that case, this is absolutely nothing at all like LeBron joining the Magic (EDIT: Heat, I'm an idiot). It's more equivalent to Durant joining the Warriors if anything.



And once again, no it wouldn't. This one I shouldn't have to explain. If I do, I am seriously questioning where your head is at in this process.



Omg, I actually have to explain it.

Of course they would. But in what world is Kyrie Irving in ANYWAY comparable to David Robinson? You are talking about the guy who won an MVP award at one point for crying out loud. Irving on the other hand even at his best was never even in the conversation. David Robinson was an elite two way player who had a 70 point game once, on top of having a quadruple double, AND won DPOY at one point. Irving on the other hand, as gifted an offensive player as he is, was still at the end of the day a one dimensional player. In what way is Kyrie Irving comparable to David Robinson? You tell me. This is an incredibly silly comparison and you know it.

A more accurate one, if we're going on the flip side here (and by that I mean comparing to what Jordan/Robinson is) would be asking "what would happen if LeBron's Cavaliers got Dwight Howard in the draft after his rookie season". LeBron and Howard no doubt would run the decade. Hell, they'd probably have a dynasty comparable to Jordan's Bulls.



You seem to be missing the point I'm trying to make. No one is denying that LeBron tried to put himself in more favorable situations. You are implying that Jordan would have automatically found immediate success far greater than what LeBron had if he took the path LeBron did.

Ignoring the fact that Jordan never needed too because he, unlike LeBron, was actually given what he needed to succeed, Jordan cannot adapt in the same matter to other systems LeBron can. Call it whatever you want. Hell, you can point out that LeBron IS the system and you'd be 100% correct on that, but that just adds further credibility to the point that just because it worked for one guy, that doesn't mean it's going to work for the other. Ask Kevin Durant how well being on other superteams has worked out for him. It's not easy and more often than not, it doesn't work. LeBron succeeding at it twice has made people think it's a sure-fire way to success and it's not.

Dumbest take ever. Give Jordan one All Star (Scottie Pippen) and he 3-peats. Give Jordan Pippen and 10 completely different teammates and he 3-peats again.

You have no right to call anyone's take "dumb" after you just got done this saying abortion of a statement the other day:

Jordan won titles in the ‘90’s with Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Ray Allen, KG etc in the league and all those guys won titles with Lebron in the league. So Lebron was getting his ass handed to him by ‘90’s players but go on with your anti 90’s rant. Enthrall me with your acumen

Do yourself a favor: stick to talking with trolls. Don't try doing this with people who are clearly smarter than you. It won't end well.

TBH you're playing right into his trolling and giving him what he wants.

[Hair Jordan]

Lebron can’t be the GOAT for one simple reason; he’s a career 74% FT shooter. I can shoot 80% from the line in my sleep. If you can’t beat a 50 year old white guy who hasn’t played competitive ball since high school in a FT shooting contest, then you can’t possibly be the greatest player of all time. My life. My rules. All negative responses are automatically wrong.

[Hair Jordan]

You have no right to call anyone's take "dumb" after you just got done this saying abortion of a statement the other day:



Do yourself a favor: stick to talking with trolls. Don't try doing this with people who are clearly smarter than you. It won't end well.

I clearly have the right to call your take “dumb” It’s guaranteed by the 1st Amendment. Something about free speech. You may have heard of it. However, you have no right to call my comment an “abortion” since abortions are mostly illegal now. I hope you’re not pre law

Okay, thanks for giving me all the reasons I need to put you on mute. Moving on…

At least you know when it’s time to get off of the L train and take your loss like a man. Smartest move you made all day.

[SNPA]

Lebron can’t be the GOAT for one simple reason; he’s a career 74% FT shooter. I can shoot 80% from the line in my sleep. If you can’t beat a 50 year old white guy who hasn’t played competitive ball since high school in a FT shooting contest, then you can’t possibly be the greatest player of all time. My life. My rules. All negative responses are automatically wrong.

He has a point.

Sorta.

[FarBeyondDriven]

yeah, nobody talks about his longevity or him being durable /s It's a good thing he has those things and the overwhelming physical advantage otherwise he'd have no business being even in the conversation.

[zimpy27]

Took 3 separate teams with separate players and coaches to the championship and was finals MVP for all 3.

That's why I see him as the GOAT

[Hair Jordan]

Took 3 separate teams with separate players and coaches to the championship and was finals MVP for all 3.

That's why I see him as the GOAT

Please He joined Wade/Bosh and then Kyrie/Love and then AD to get his cheap rings. If Lebron took his talents to Memphis, Charlotte and Minnesota instead he’d be a ringless bum.

[OldCeltics]

Lebron is not even top 5

[KembaWalker]

Took 3 separate teams with separate players and coaches to the championship and was finals MVP for all 3.

That's why I see him as the GOAT

Good one

[art_tatum]

Lol which thread came first

[FarBeyondDriven]

Took 3 separate teams with separate players and coaches to the championship and was finals MVP for all 3.

That's why I see him as the GOAT

He has a claim to be in the convo for sure. But it's the fact he formed those three separate teams, beyond the lack of scoring titles, rings, and DPOY, that prevent him from being seriously considered over MJ. It's just hard for me to accept that three separate times he went out of his way to stack the deck. And even stacking the deck he needed a Green suspension, questionable officiating plus Kyrie's shot, Allen's fluke shot, the bubble and going against a very young OKC team with early 20s stars, to win the four that he has.

It just doesn't stack up to other all-time greats like MJ, Magic, Bird, and Kareem. Hell, even Duncan beat the Pistons team Lebron lost to in the ECF, swept Lebron with Cleveland and beat Lebron with the Heat. The only loss to Lebron was due to that fluke Allen three pointer.

[knicksNOTslick]

How can I explain plausible realistic scenario around a hypothetical? We have LeBron team hopping multiple times and doing the same tactic in 2 instances, why would Jordan be less successful employing the same tactic?

Because for starters, that's not how this works. You can't just apply the "it worked for one player, why wouldn't it work for the other" argument and expect that to fly. That's a lazy and contrived narrative that can be picked apart with even the slightest amount of thought being put into it.

LeBron and Jordan have drastically different playstyles. LeBron controls the offense a lot more, is more adaptable and can impact the game in more ways. This is undeniable, regardless of which side of the fence you are on (note that this doesn't mean I'm calling LeBron the better player, I am simply stating a point in regards to this comparison). That in return allows LeBron to play within different systems. Jordan's not capable of doing that. His style of play would have a far more severe impact on his teammates than LeBron. People tend to forget that one of the key factors in Jordan thriving was having a coach who ran a system that was perfectly built for someone like him with teammates who fit him perfectly. LeBron never had this kind of fortune, in any of the situations he found himself in.

I just used the Bucks as an example, what if Jordan came back in 95 and joined the Magic, which would be similar to LeBron joining the Heat.

Again, if you even bothered giving ever so slight amount of thought into what you were saying, you wouldn't say something like this.

You're telling me that Jordan coming in and joining the Magic, who already had experience playing alongside each other, developed actual chemistry, and already had two star players, is similar to LeBron joining a team that practically had to start from scratch? LeBron wasn't the only one coming into the fray, Chris Bosh was also joining in on the matter. And I'm sorry, where is that second superstar that was already with Wade? Oh, he's not there? Okay, pretty bad start for your comparison. And what's this? Orlando doesn't have to fill out the rest of their roster with aged and in some cases way past their prime players who wouldn't get minutes on any other team? Well who are they getting? HORACE GRANT?! Well then in that case, this is absolutely nothing at all like LeBron joining the Magic (EDIT: Heat, I'm an idiot). It's more equivalent to Durant joining the Warriors if anything.

What if in 89 after another playoffs flame out he had left and joined the Spurs, they were coming off a 21-61 season and were getting a rookie Robinson, would have been similar to LeBron joining Kyrie + all their lottery picks.

And once again, no it wouldn't. This one I shouldn't have to explain. If I do, I am seriously questioning where your head is at in this process.

Do you think Jordan and Robinson wouldn't have ran the decade?

Omg, I actually have to explain it.

Of course they would. But in what world is Kyrie Irving in ANYWAY comparable to David Robinson? You are talking about the guy who won an MVP award at one point for crying out loud. Irving on the other hand even at his best was never even in the conversation. David Robinson was an elite two way player who had a 70 point game once, on top of having a quadruple double, AND won DPOY at one point. Irving on the other hand, as gifted an offensive player as he is, was still at the end of the day a one dimensional player. In what way is Kyrie Irving comparable to David Robinson? You tell me. This is an incredibly silly comparison and you know it.

A more accurate one, if we're going on the flip side here (and by that I mean comparing to what Jordan/Robinson is) would be asking "what would happen if LeBron's Cavaliers got Dwight Howard in the draft after his rookie season". LeBron and Howard no doubt would run the decade. Hell, they'd probably have a dynasty comparable to Jordan's Bulls.

There's many instances I can point to and just ask what if Jordan had played it like LeBron. You don't even need to use LeBron either, Dirk probably has 2-3 titles if he pushes for a trade or signs with lets say the Magic in 07, he had a ETO around that time. Does he not end up in a better situation being paired with Dwight? The main point is, nobody else has done what LeBron did, looking for the absolute best situation to come into and then have them make moves because they had recent lottery picks, I don't even need to bring up the Heat that much either, just going back to the Cavs and then the Lakers while employing the same method is enough. Trade for Love, trade for AD, make ancillary trades around that, title, rinse and repeat. If he were younger he'd do it again, probably the Rockets.

You seem to be missing the point I'm trying to make. No one is denying that LeBron tried to put himself in more favorable situations. You are implying that Jordan would have automatically found immediate success far greater than what LeBron had if he took the path LeBron did.

Ignoring the fact that Jordan never needed too because he, unlike LeBron, was actually given what he needed to succeed, Jordan cannot adapt in the same matter to other systems LeBron can. Call it whatever you want. Hell, you can point out that LeBron IS the system and you'd be 100% correct on that, but that just adds further credibility to the point that just because it worked for one guy, that doesn't mean it's going to work for the other. Ask Kevin Durant how well being on other superteams has worked out for him. It's not easy and more often than not, it doesn't work. LeBron succeeding at it twice has made people think it's a sure-fire way to success and it's not.

Wow. Holy hell. The excuses fans make for Lebron. It is so sad. Lebron never had the fortune to have a system perfectly built for him in any situation he is in?!? He literally jumped from team to team to better situations and demanded front offices to trade for star players and he put himself at the center of the offense that caters to his success and raising his stats. In all his team hopping, he had one season he took a backseat to Wade, who already won a title so it's understandable. The rest had offense tailor made for him.

But the excuses are so sad. Lebron got to pick his teammates so you could say he was more fortunate. There really was no excuses for the Big 3 Heat to only win 2 titles out of 4 tries. They underachieved. No excuses. LeBron fans just can't accept that.

Jordan maximized his chances to get to 6 titles and retired early. Lebron failed more in the Finals, has less rings and is now at year 20+ still playing catchup.

All fans can point to is longevity as he keeps padding his stats.

[NbaAllDay]

Took 3 separate teams with separate players and coaches to the championship and was finals MVP for all 3.

That's why I see him as the GOAT

Please He joined Wade/Bosh and then Kyrie/Love and then AD to get his cheap rings. If Lebron took his talents to Memphis, Charlotte and Minnesota instead he’d be a ringless bum.

Clogging up all these threads with insecure takes just does MJ a disservice. He can be the GOAT without GOAT level comedic takes.

[zimpy27]

Took 3 separate teams with separate players and coaches to the championship and was finals MVP for all 3.

That's why I see him as the GOAT

Please He joined Wade/Bosh and then Kyrie/Love and then AD to get his cheap rings. If Lebron took his talents to Memphis, Charlotte and Minnesota instead he’d be a ringless bum.

None of those teams were any good without him though.

Heat didn't make playoffs season after he left. Love wasn't in playoffs season before he joined Cavs or after LeBron left. Kyrie wasn't in playoffs before LeBron joined. Davis wasn't in playoffs in season before joining LeBron.

It's not easy winning a ring let alone making the playoffs evidently.

[zimpy27]

Took 3 separate teams with separate players and coaches to the championship and was finals MVP for all 3.

That's why I see him as the GOAT

He has a claim to be in the convo for sure. But it's the fact he formed those three separate teams, beyond the lack of scoring titles, rings, and DPOY, that prevent him from being seriously considered over MJ. It's just hard for me to accept that three separate times he went out of his way to stack the deck. And even stacking the deck he needed a Green suspension, questionable officiating plus Kyrie's shot, Allen's fluke shot, the bubble and going against a very young OKC team with early 20s stars, to win the four that he has.

It just doesn't stack up to other all-time greats like MJ, Magic, Bird, and Kareem. Hell, even Duncan beat the Pistons team Lebron lost to in the ECF, swept Lebron with Cleveland and beat Lebron with the Heat. The only loss to Lebron was due to that fluke Allen three pointer.

I have him over MJ because of these things.

Jordan was his dominant best and found no championship glory until he toned down his usage and fit into a PJax system with Pippen, Kukoc and Horace, Horace, Paxson and BJ were then replaced by an even more talented squad.

Jordan won in one system. He effectively found a path and spammed it. It's not as impressive to me beyond health. Even when Jordan was gone in 93-94 you could see the system was really impressive without him.

[SlimShady83]

Took 3 separate teams with separate players and coaches to the championship and was finals MVP for all 3.

That's why I see him as the GOAT

And all that with only 4 chips

LMAO