Where does Karl Malone rank all-time?

[kcktiny]

Guys who weren't in their prime yet/anymore are just names.

Just another excuse.

You also destroy your credibility by not including guys like Hornacek or J.Malone.

My aren't we harsh.

Perhaps you should work on your reading comprehension. I said the 4 players on each team that played the next most minutes. That does not include either Hornacek (6th most minutes) or J.Malone (8th).

But if you want to go down the list of players on both the Jazz and Spurs in descending minutes played to mention Hornacek and J.Malone, well then why not also mention for the Spurs Michael Finley, Danny Green, and Kawhi Leonard?

I don't think there is any question that over the two 18 year periods Duncan had the better teammates compared to K.Malone.

But you can twist it any way you wish.

Malone was all-NBA 1st team 11 times, compared to Duncan (10), Barkley (5), Nowitzki (4), and Garnett (4). Those voters certainly thought quite highly of Karl Malone's all-around game.

[Petergrifindor]

I don’t know what mitigating circumstances there would be for a 22 year old **** a child

Having the looks and the body of an adult and lying about your age.

Doesn’t mean it applies to this case.

[Johnny Tomala]

14th all time, Dirk 15th for me.

[One_and_Done]

Guys who weren't in their prime yet/anymore are just names.

Just another excuse.

You also destroy your credibility by not including guys like Hornacek or J.Malone.

My aren't we harsh.

Perhaps you should work on your reading comprehension. I said the 4 players on each team that played the next most minutes. That does not include either Hornacek (6th most minutes) or J.Malone (8th).

But if you want to go down the list of players on both the Jazz and Spurs in descending minutes played to mention Hornacek and J.Malone, well then why not also mention for the Spurs Michael Finley, Danny Green, and Kawhi Leonard?

I don't think there is any question that over the two 18 year periods Duncan had the better teammates compared to K.Malone.

But you can twist it any way you wish.

Malone was all-NBA 1st team 11 times, compared to Duncan (10), Barkley (5), Nowitzki (4), and Garnett (4). Those voters certainly thought quite highly of Karl Malone's all-around game.

You're being silly. Should we treat the 02 Lakers as having had a 3rd star because a washed Mitch Richmond was on the end of their bench? D.Rob was a role player in his final years.

"Next most minutes" is an arbitrary criteria. Kawhi would not be "top 4 in minutes" for the Raptors from 2017 to 2020, but I hear he was kind of important. Jeff Malone was a 2 time all-star still in his prime who started for the Jazz from 91-94 prior to being traded, and put up good numbers as a 3rd option. Hornacek was an all-star quality player too.

If you want to assess the support casts you need to look at each year, not just throw out shiny names with no context.

This was all discussed in detail on the PC boards top 100 project (where ironically I was defending Malone, amd trying to get him voted in far earlier than he was).

[Optms]

IDK where I rank him but Kobe was better so he's irrelevant.

[One_and_Done]

IDK where I rank him but Kobe was better so he's irrelevant.

Kobe gets alot of hype for a guy who was just an overdog and rode so many coat tails. The guy was on the team favoured to win the title like 10 times, and failed half of those times. Pretty unclutch tbh.

[Optms]

IDK where I rank him but Kobe was better so he's irrelevant.

Kobe gets alot of hype for a guy who was just an overdog and rode so many coat tails. The guy was on the team favoured to win the title like 10 times, and failed half of those times. Pretty unclutch tbh.

The Jazz were a top 3 seed for over a decade. What did Malone do?

If Kobe was an "overdog", then Malone is the biggest choke artists for having an elite team every year and doing nothing. Kobe won. Malone never did. Both played with HOF talent. Kobe destroys Malone. And only two Finals appaerances? Not impressed.

[St Knick]

somewhere around 20-25.
Recall Malone wilted often in the playoffs, Harden style...


Here is Bill Simmons list from 2010...
https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/simmons_pyramid.html

Since then, I'd argue the following players (not appearing here at all) are all ahead of Malone on alltime list.


* Steph Curry
* Kevin Durant
* Nikola Jokic

I'd also argue some players elevated their stock at that time, such as...

* Lebron James (duh)
* Dirk Nowitzki (beat Miami in 2010-11 finals)
* Kevin Garnett (I prefer him over Malone)
* Giannis Antetokounmpo
* Luka Doncic

Others with a chance to pass (not saying I think they will)...

* Joel Embiid

That drops him to 24ish on this list.
SO my answer --- between top 20-25 (top 25)

-------------------------------------------------------


Per Game Shooting Advanced
Rank Player From To G MP PTS TRB AST STL BLK FG% 3P% FT% WS WS/48
1 Michael Jordan 1985 2003 1072 38.3 30.1 6.2 5.3 2.3 0.8 .497 .327 .835 214.0 .250
2 Bill Russell 1957 1969 963 42.3 15.1 22.5 4.3 .440 .561 163.5 .193
3 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1970 1989 1560 36.8 24.6 11.2 3.6 0.9 2.6 .559 .721 273.4 .228
4 Magic Johnson 1980 1996 906 36.7 19.5 7.2 11.2 1.9 0.4 .520 .303 .848 155.8 .225
5 Larry Bird 1980 1992 897 38.4 24.3 10.0 6.3 1.7 0.8 .496 .376 .886 145.8 .203
6 Wilt Chamberlain 1960 1973 1045 45.8 30.1 22.9 4.4 .540 .511 247.3 .248
7 Tim Duncan 1998 2016 1392 34.0 19.0 10.8 3.0 0.7 2.2 .506 .179 .696 206.4 .209
8 Kobe Bryant 1997 2016 1346 36.1 25.0 5.2 4.7 1.4 0.5 .447 .329 .837 172.7 .170
9 Jerry West 1961 1974 932 39.2 27.0 5.8 6.7 2.6 0.7 .474 .814 162.6 .213
10 Oscar Robertson 1961 1974 1040 42.2 25.7 7.5 9.5 1.1 0.1 .485 .838 189.2 .207
11 Hakeem Olajuwon 1985 2002 1238 35.7 21.8 11.1 2.5 1.7 3.1 .512 .202 .712 162.8 .177
12 Shaquille O'Neal 1993 2011 1207 34.7 23.7 10.9 2.5 0.6 2.3 .582 .045 .527 181.7 .208
13 Moses Malone 1977 1995 1329 33.9 20.6 12.2 1.4 0.8 1.3 .491 .769 167.1 .178
14 John Havlicek 1963 1978 1270 36.6 20.8 6.3 4.8 1.2 0.3 .439 .815 131.7 .136
15 Elgin Baylor 1959 1972 846 40.0 27.4 13.5 4.3 .431 .780 104.2 .148
16 Julius Erving 1977 1987 836 34.3 22.0 6.7 3.9 1.8 1.5 .507 .777 106.2 .178
17 Bob Pettit 1955 1965 792 38.8 26.4 16.2 3.0 .436 .761 136.0 .213
18 Karl Malone 1986 2004 1476 37.2 25.0 10.1 3.6 1.4 0.8 .516 .274 .742 234.6 .205
19 Charles Barkley 1985 2000 1073 36.7 22.1 11.7 3.9 1.5 0.8 .541 .266 .735 177.2 .216
20 LeBron James 2004 2024 1488 37.9 27.1 7.5 7.4 1.5 0.7 .506 .348 .736 262.8 .223
21 Bob Cousy 1951 1970 924 35.3 18.4 5.2 7.5 .375 .803 91.1 .139
22 Kevin Garnett 1996 2016 1462 34.5 17.8 10.0 3.7 1.3 1.4 .497 .275 .789 191.4 .182
23 Isiah Thomas 1982 1994 979 36.3 19.2 3.6 9.3 1.9 0.3 .452 .290 .759 80.7 .109
24 Scottie Pippen 1988 2004 1178 34.9 16.1 6.4 5.2 2.0 0.8 .473 .326 .704 125.1 .146
25 John Stockton 1985 2003 1504 31.8 13.1 2.7 10.5 2.2 0.2 .515 .384 .826 207.7 .209
26 Rick Barry 1966 1980 794 36.3 23.2 6.5 5.1 2.0 0.5 .449 .900 93.4 .156
27 Bill Walton 1975 1987 468 28.3 13.3 10.5 3.4 0.8 2.2 .521 .660 39.3 .142
28 Dwyane Wade 2004 2019 1054 33.9 22.0 4.7 5.4 1.5 0.8 .480 .293 .765 120.7 .162
29 David Robinson 1990 2003 987 34.7 21.1 10.6 2.5 1.4 3.0 .518 .250 .736 178.7 .250
30 Willis Reed 1965 1974 650 35.5 18.7 12.9 1.8 0.6 1.1 .476 .747 74.9 .15

[kcktiny]

.
Well that's a switch in tone. In the same thread you've gone from:

You also destroy your credibility

to:

You're being silly.

What's next? We can all sing kumbaya?

D.Rob was a role player in his final years.

Now who is being silly? You are clearly clueless here. From 1997-98 to 2000-01 David Robinson was still one of the very best Cs in the league.

In 1997-98 he was 3rd in DPOY voting (Duncan was 6th), in 1998-99 4th (Duncan was 5th), and in 2000-01 at the age of 35 5th (Duncan 3rd).

Not only that but for the 4 seasons from 1998-99 to 2000-01 DRob (ages 32-35) was 2nd among all Cs in the league in points scored, 3rd among Cs in the league in rebounds, and 4th in blocked shots.

Role player? Yeh right. Again - nice try.

Karl Malone in his 18 year stint did not have a single teammate anywhere near as good as either David Robinson or Kawhi Leonard, and those two combined to play over 20,000 minutes during that 18 year stint for Duncan.

Right. Tim Duncan didn't have too much help.

Kawhi would not be "top 4 in minutes" for the Raptors from 2017 to 2020, but I hear he was kind of important.

Exactly right. And Malone did not have a teammate anywhere near as good as Kawhi Leonard like Tim Duncan did.

Hornacek was an all-star quality player too.

Yes he was, a very good player that was an excellent shooter, scored some, but could also defend and force turnovers. But nowhere near Leonard or DRob.

Jeff Malone was a 2 time all-star still in his prime who started for the Jazz from 91-94 prior to being traded, and put up good numbers as a 3rd option.

Good numbers? Wrong.

Jeff Malone could score but was nowhere near the shooter Hornacek was, and was a poor defender that could not rebound nor force turnovers. He was a clear negative, all-stars notwithstanding.

If you want to assess the support casts you need to look at each year, not just throw out shiny names with no context.

Like David Robinson and Kawhi Leonard? I see your point.

[One_and_Done]

IDK where I rank him but Kobe was better so he's irrelevant.

Kobe gets alot of hype for a guy who was just an overdog and rode so many coat tails. The guy was on the team favoured to win the title like 10 times, and failed half of those times. Pretty unclutch tbh.

The Jazz were a top 3 seed for over a decade. What did Malone do?

If Kobe was an "overdog", then Malone is the biggest choke artists for having an elite team every year and doing nothing. Kobe won. Malone never did. Both played with HOF talent. Kobe destroys Malone. And only two Finals appaerances? Not impressed.

Malone can't help if other stars had a better support cast. He did have a few let downs, but nowhere near as many as Kobe.

[DOT]

I don’t know what mitigating circumstances there would be for a 22 year old **** a child

When you're a star, they let you do it.

[One_and_Done]

.
Well that's a switch in tone. In the same thread you've gone from:

You also destroy your credibility

to:

You're being silly.

What's next? We can all sing kumbaya?

D.Rob was a role player in his final years.

Now who is being silly? You are clearly clueless here. From 1997-98 to 2000-01 David Robinson was still one of the very best Cs in the league.

In 1997-98 he was 3rd in DPOY voting (Duncan was 6th), in 1998-99 4th (Duncan was 5th), and in 2000-01 at the age of 35 5th (Duncan 3rd).

Not only that but for the 4 seasons from 1998-99 to 2000-01 DRob (ages 32-35) was 2nd among all Cs in the league in points scored, 3rd among Cs in the league in rebounds, and 4th in blocked shots.

Role player? Yeh right. Again - nice try.

Karl Malone in his 18 year stint did not have a single teammate anywhere near as good as either David Robinson or Kawhi Leonard, and those two combined to play over 20,000 minutes during that 18 year stint for Duncan.

Right. Tim Duncan didn't have too much help.

Kawhi would not be "top 4 in minutes" for the Raptors from 2017 to 2020, but I hear he was kind of important.

Exactly right. And Malone did not have a teammate anywhere near as good as Kawhi Leonard like Tim Duncan did.

Hornacek was an all-star quality player too.

Yes he was, a very good player that was an excellent shooter, scored some, but could also defend and force turnovers. But nowhere near Leonard or DRob.

Jeff Malone was a 2 time all-star still in his prime who started for the Jazz from 91-94 prior to being traded, and put up good numbers as a 3rd option.

Good numbers? Wrong.

Jeff Malone could score but was nowhere near the shooter Hornacek was, and was a poor defender that could not rebound nor force turnovers. He was a clear negative, all-stars notwithstanding.

If you want to assess the support casts you need to look at each year, not just throw out shiny names with no context.

Like David Robinson and Kawhi Leonard? I see your point.

It depends on the year we're talking about. In 02 and 03 D.Rob was a role player. In 01 he was a faux all-star who was a role player in the playoffs. Stockton or Hornacek are better than any of those 3 D.Rob years, and in 04 Duncan still had no genuine all-star next to him yet.

D.Rob in 98 and 99 waa better than any version of Stockton sure. Kawhi wasn't an all-star type guy till what, 2015? 2016? Kawhi didn't peak till 2017, the year after Duncan retired. I might take Kawhi over most versions of Stockton even in 14 or 15, but in 14 he was also a 3&D role player.

Please stop with the Jeff Malone slander. He was a borderline all-star sure, and worse than Horny, but to call him a "net negative" is dumb. Eaton was an all-star too btw, and DPOY. He even got MVP votes one year.

[AleksandarN]

I don’t know what mitigating circumstances there would be for a 22 year old **** a child

When you're a star, they let you do it.

The pedo called her his girlfriend. This was not just a one night stand.

[Slimjimzv]

People I believe to be above him (in no particular order)

MJ
Lebron
Wilt
Kareem
Shaq
Hakeem
Bird
Magic
Bill Russell
Tim Duncan
Steph Curry
Kevin Durant
Kobe
Dr. J
Oscar Robinson

So, for me, that would put him at 16. Unless I missed someone, and I probably did.

[Optms]

Kobe gets alot of hype for a guy who was just an overdog and rode so many coat tails. The guy was on the team favoured to win the title like 10 times, and failed half of those times. Pretty unclutch tbh.

The Jazz were a top 3 seed for over a decade. What did Malone do?

If Kobe was an "overdog", then Malone is the biggest choke artists for having an elite team every year and doing nothing. Kobe won. Malone never did. Both played with HOF talent. Kobe destroys Malone. And only two Finals appaerances? Not impressed.

Malone can't help if other stars had a better support cast. He did have a few let downs, but nowhere near as many as Kobe.

Kobe made 7 Finals appearances, winning 5 titles, multiple cores.

Malone has 2 Finals appearances. Was ran out twice by Hakeem. Lost in the first round in 1995 while winning 60 games. Jazz were elite every season but only have 2 finals appearances to show for it.

Who had more let downs again?

[One_and_Done]

The Jazz were a top 3 seed for over a decade. What did Malone do?

If Kobe was an "overdog", then Malone is the biggest choke artists for having an elite team every year and doing nothing. Kobe won. Malone never did. Both played with HOF talent. Kobe destroys Malone. And only two Finals appaerances? Not impressed.

Malone can't help if other stars had a better support cast. He did have a few let downs, but nowhere near as many as Kobe.

Kobe made 7 Finals appearances, winning 5 titles, multiple cores.

Malone has 2 Finals appearances. Was ran out twice by Hakeem. Lost in the first round in 1995 while winning 60 games. Jazz were elite every season but only have 2 finals appearances to show for it.

Who had more let downs again?

Kobe was on the title favourites 10 times at least. Not 'a top 3 team' or 'a really good support cast' like Malone often had; he was on the team favoured to win it all. 10 times. And he lost 5 of those 10 times. In a number of those cases the team failing was his fault in large part too. In the case of Karl Malone that was rarely if ever true.

[kcktiny]

It depends on the year we're talking about. In 02 and 03 D.Rob was a role player. In 01 he was a faux all-star who was a role player in the playoffs.

The first four years Duncan played with David Robinson DRob was one of the best Cs in the league. Period. Karl Malone never played with a player of that caliber. In 2000-01 DRob was still one of the very best Cs in the league. What are you missing?

Kawhi wasn't an all-star type guy till what, 2015? 2016?

Leonard was a stud defender from day one. He was also very efficient on offense, a good rebounder for a SF, with a high steal rate his first 5 years in the league. Just because you belittle his performance does not negate that.

Please stop with the Jeff Malone slander. He was a borderline all-star sure, and worse than Horny, but to call him a "net negative" is dumb.

I suppose Jeff Malone was better than a young Kawhi Leonard because he scored more and was an all-star, huh?

Learn how to evaluate player defense. Learn how players that do the little extra things - grab offensive rebounds, get steals, block shots, draw offensive fouls - help their teams win games moreso than players that do not do these little things.

In his career Jeff Malone was an average shooter for a SG that was a poor defender and that did none of the little extra things players do to win games. He averaged 2282 minutes/season and only 44 offensive rebounds, 44 steals, and 8 blocked shots a season. Those are pathetically low/bad for a SG.

[JShuttlesworth]

I would probably rank him somewhere in the 18 to 25 range

[Jedi32]

The Jazz were a top 3 seed for over a decade. What did Malone do?

If Kobe was an "overdog", then Malone is the biggest choke artists for having an elite team every year and doing nothing. Kobe won. Malone never did. Both played with HOF talent. Kobe destroys Malone. And only two Finals appaerances? Not impressed.

Malone can't help if other stars had a better support cast. He did have a few let downs, but nowhere near as many as Kobe.

Kobe made 7 Finals appearances, winning 5 titles, multiple cores.

Malone has 2 Finals appearances. Was ran out twice by Hakeem. Lost in the first round in 1995 while winning 60 games. Jazz were elite every season but only have 2 finals appearances to show for it.

Who had more let downs again?

You're wasting your time. Let the trolls troll.

[NZB2323]

It depends on the year we're talking about. In 02 and 03 D.Rob was a role player. In 01 he was a faux all-star who was a role player in the playoffs.

The first four years Duncan played with David Robinson DRob was one of the best Cs in the league. Period. Karl Malone never played with a player of that caliber. In 2000-01 DRob was still one of the very best Cs in the league. What are you missing?

Kawhi wasn't an all-star type guy till what, 2015? 2016?

Leonard was a stud defender from day one. He was also very efficient on offense, a good rebounder for a SF, with a high steal rate his first 5 years in the league. Just because you belittle his performance does not negate that.

Please stop with the Jeff Malone slander. He was a borderline all-star sure, and worse than Horny, but to call him a "net negative" is dumb.

I suppose Jeff Malone was better than a young Kawhi Leonard because he scored more and was an all-star, huh?

Learn how to evaluate player defense. Learn how players that do the little extra things - grab offensive rebounds, get steals, block shots, draw offensive fouls - help their teams win games moreso than players that do not do these little things.

In his career Jeff Malone was an average shooter for a SG that was a poor defender and that did none of the little extra things players do to win games. He averaged 2282 minutes/season and only 44 offensive rebounds, 44 steals, and 8 blocked shots a season. Those are pathetically low/bad for a SG.

John Stockton was one of the best point guards of all time.

1sts in assists and steals, 3rd in VORP, 7th in win shares, 8th in BPM. Stockton was better than a past his prime Robinson or a young Kawhi, and Malone got to play with Stockton every year except for the one he teamed up with Kobe and Shaq.