Have we been underrating Luka?

[deneem4]

Kyrie is NOT simply ... Kyrie. He's having an incredible year on pace for 50/40/90. That's pretty good for someone who almost no team even wanted anymore after BOS, BKN fiascos. I guess you don't know about his story.
They said he wouldn't work and mesh well but he does, they made it work. Last time Kyrie was this happy and playing well was when he was with Bron.

Gafford and PJ are not playing the same, they are playing winning basketball. Since FEB 1st, Mavs record is 22-8 (2nd best after Celtics). These two were never on a team with high playoff hopes. And they made it work. PJ is playing amazing defense, filling the wing defender role Mavs badly needed and simply works great in their starting lineup. Same goes for Gaff. I literally showed you a good argument, since Gafford is starting with Doncic, his record is 16-1.

Apart from KP and Brunson, i brought up older teammates (role players) because since they left Mavs, they all had down years or are almost out of lineup rotations. That's who Luka had to work with and he made it work.

Read on Twitter

You’re trying to equate kyrie year to luka instead of the literally political things I won’t elaborate on is crazy
Like are you serious??

Gafford been doing the same thing he did on the wizards
Pj is doing the same as he was on the hornets
Check the stats if you don’t believe me

What is the 16-1 record arguing???? Gafford when starting makes the mavs much better? Or luka when starting with gafford makes them better? I’m confused on that

His old role players teammates are mostly on tanking teams luka had Brunson who has lead the knicks with injuries this season to a record close to the mavs
And porzingis is a top 3 player on the best team in the league

Luka helps Gafford a lot. He literally scored 26 Pts on 100% FG last night.

Also was on 33 straight FG streak before Luka got injured & he couldn't beat Chamberlain's 35 straight FGs record.

Gafford was .73 as a wizard last year he’s .77 as a Mac this year….that’s a really big jump huh

[ChipotleWest]

We only break down Luka's teammates nobody talks about how Nuggets have struggled at times without Murray, is Joker not "lifting other teammates up" No because you can't lift scrubs to become stars that's not how it works. It's just something to criticize Luka fo

Joker is great but at full strength that's a good team there's no denying it. You don't win the championship with scrubs which is what some have expected a young Luka to do.

[deneem4]

So why should he get mvp this year when he won more games 2 years ago with a worse roster?

I don't think he should get it, Jokic is clearly the better player at this point and has better impact stats. My point was that the record is more his teammates' performance fault, and also some bad luck (injuries). But anyway, next year could be a different conversation, Luka getting into his age 26 season, that's usually peak performance (that and age 27 season), so hopefully the team can finally win 57-58, and that could put him over the top potentially (with better advanced stats).

Kyrie has missed a bunch of games, Lively's missed a bunch of games, other Mavs have missed games as well. If they were healthy and had Gafford and Washington all season this would be close to a 60 win team. 21-7 since the trade deadline is 2nd best record in the League in that time frame behind Boston. It would average out to 60 wins over an 82 game season.

If Beal was health and Ingram was healthy mavs would be in the playin, let’s not do what ifs

[deneem4]

We only break down Luka's teammates nobody talks about how Nuggets have struggled at times without Murray, is Joker not "lifting other teammates up" No because you can't lift scrubs to become stars that's not how it works. It's just something to criticize Luka for.

Joker doesn’t lift scrubs he jus start doing out of this world things and they win the game

[losmi]

Luka is a Finals appearance away from being the best player in the league.


I had him #6 before the season. He's clearly proven he's at worst the 3rd best player in the league.


My top 3 in order Jokic/Embiid/Luka

So you put Embiid above Luka and at the same time, you're saying he is a Finals appearance away from being the best player in the league? Despite the fact Luka has already performed FAR better than Embiid coming POs time?

That's some really strange logic to say the least.

Embiid is a MVP and was the best player in the league before he got injured and the frontrunner for MVP again.

I dropped Embiid down to #2 because Jokic is going to win his 3rd MVP.

Whatever happens in the playoffs will change my order. So if Luka proves he can beat the Nuggets and Jokic I have no choice but to put him as my best player.

My list is fluid and subject to change.

Embiid is a fraud who made a plan to cherrypick his schedule and play 120% against bottom teams to pad his stats and steal another award. Then he collapsed half way through the season by doing so.

He's not top-anything in this league. Embiid is not in the same stratosphere as Jokic and Luka, who are both all-time greats.

[Ambrose]

You’re trying to equate kyrie year to luka instead of the literally political things I won’t elaborate on is crazy
Like are you serious??

Gafford been doing the same thing he did on the wizards
Pj is doing the same as he was on the hornets
Check the stats if you don’t believe me

What is the 16-1 record arguing???? Gafford when starting makes the mavs much better? Or luka when starting with gafford makes them better? I’m confused on that

His old role players teammates are mostly on tanking teams luka had Brunson who has lead the knicks with injuries this season to a record close to the mavs
And porzingis is a top 3 player on the best team in the league

Luka helps Gafford a lot. He literally scored 26 Pts on 100% FG last night.

Also was on 33 straight FG streak before Luka got injured & he couldn't beat Chamberlain's 35 straight FGs record.

Gafford was .73 as a wizard last year he’s .77 as a Mac this year….that’s a really big jump huh

Since the trade his FG% is up 8%, and he's averaging 6 points more per 100 possessions. That's a pretty massive jump.

[deneem4]

We only break down Luka's teammates nobody talks about how Nuggets have struggled at times without Murray, is Joker not "lifting other teammates up" No because you can't lift scrubs to become stars that's not how it works. It's just something to criticize Luka fo

Joker is great but at full strength that's a good team there's no denying it. You don't win the championship with scrubs which is what some have expected a young Luka to do.

And no one expect luka to win it all but you, and when he falls shorts his teammates are scrubs, vs jus saying his incredible play doesn’t always translates to winning and that’s ok

[ChipotleWest]

I don't think he should get it, Jokic is clearly the better player at this point and has better impact stats. My point was that the record is more his teammates' performance fault, and also some bad luck (injuries). But anyway, next year could be a different conversation, Luka getting into his age 26 season, that's usually peak performance (that and age 27 season), so hopefully the team can finally win 57-58, and that could put him over the top potentially (with better advanced stats).

Kyrie has missed a bunch of games, Lively's missed a bunch of games, other Mavs have missed games as well. If they were healthy and had Gafford and Washington all season this would be close to a 60 win team. 21-7 since the trade deadline is 2nd best record in the League in that time frame behind Boston. It would average out to 60 wins over an 82 game season.

If Beal was health and Ingram was healthy mavs would be in the playin, let’s not do what ifs

So in both our what ifs yours is one as well the Mavs win 60 games and are the #1 seed and the Suns and Pelicans are a top 6 seed. No freaking way Mavs are a play in with Gafford and Washington and health all season are you crazy?

[blueberrysticky]

Let’s pretend hypothetical Player A is playing on Team A

Player A has been playing amazing all year. Leads in offense created.

Team A at start of the year is flawed. 2nd best player is hurt after having just 20 games to gel previous year and the team itself is heavily flawed. Player A keeps team afloat during this. No 2nd option and very weak roster riddled with injuries

Team A then has 2nd best player come back along with now a more complete team due to trade deadline.

Team A now is healthy and now looks like the team everyone expected Player A to lead

best record since trade deadline

Player A hasn’t changed a thing. Been the same dominant self all season.

we are here arguing Lukas impact when we should acknowledge he’s great and maybe we are instead Underrating the value of Team Basketball and Health

New topic. Have we been underrating a complete team and health?

[ChipotleWest]

Let’s pretend hypothetical Player A is playing on Team A

Player A has been playing amazing all year. Leads in offense created.

Team A at start of the year is flawed. 2nd best player is hurt after having just 20 games to gel previous year and the team itself is heavily flawed. Player A keeps team afloat during this. No 2nd option and very weak roster riddled with injuries

Team A then has 2nd best player come back along with now a more complete team due to trade deadline.

Team A now is healthy and now looks like the team everyone expected Player A to lead

best record since trade deadline

Player A hasn’t changed a thing. Been the same dominant self all season.

we are here arguing Lukas impact when we should acknowledge he’s great and maybe we are instead Underrating the value of Team Basketball and Health

New topic. Have we been underrating a complete team and health?

[deneem4]

Luka helps Gafford a lot. He literally scored 26 Pts on 100% FG last night.

Also was on 33 straight FG streak before Luka got injured & he couldn't beat Chamberlain's 35 straight FGs record.

Gafford was .73 as a wizard last year he’s .77 as a Mac this year….that’s a really big jump huh

Since the trade his FG% is up 8%, and he's averaging 6 points more per 100 possessions. That's a pretty massive jump.

Last year his fg was .73 as a full year with the wizards averaging 9ppg
This year after the trade as a maverick it’s .77 and 11ppg

He went up 2ppg and .04 in percentage let’s use normal stats

[Ambrose]

Gafford was .73 as a wizard last year he’s .77 as a Mac this year….that’s a really big jump huh

Since the trade his FG% is up 8%, and he's averaging 6 points more per 100 possessions. That's a pretty massive jump.

Last year his fg was .73 as a full year with the wizards averaging 9ppg
This year after the trade as a maverick it’s .77 and 11ppg

He went up 2ppg and .04 in percentage let’s use normal stats

2 ppg more on 4% better efficiency is still awesome. And that's not even factoring in he's playing less.

[deneem4]

Kyrie has missed a bunch of games, Lively's missed a bunch of games, other Mavs have missed games as well. If they were healthy and had Gafford and Washington all season this would be close to a 60 win team. 21-7 since the trade deadline is 2nd best record in the League in that time frame behind Boston. It would average out to 60 wins over an 82 game season.

If Beal was health and Ingram was healthy mavs would be in the playin, let’s not do what ifs

So in both our what ifs yours is one as well the Mavs win 60 games and are the #1 seed and the Suns and Pelicans are a top 6 seed. No freaking way Mavs are a play in with Gafford and Washington and health all season are you crazy?

Pelicans we’re a top 4 seed this year before Ingram went down, in like real life no what if
Suns was jus a throw in cause Beal ain been healthy at all but in any case it’s a what if

[DaPessimist]

He's my MVP this season.

If he performs like he normally does in this years playoffs, he may take the title as best player in the league as well.

[deneem4]

Since the trade his FG% is up 8%, and he's averaging 6 points more per 100 possessions. That's a pretty massive jump.

Last year his fg was .73 as a full year with the wizards averaging 9ppg
This year after the trade as a maverick it’s .77 and 11ppg

He went up 2ppg and .04 in percentage let’s use normal stats

2 ppg more on 4% better efficiency is still awesome. And that's not even factoring in he's playing less.

That usually happens when people play less on a playoff team vs on the wizards with kuzma nem

[ChipotleWest]

We only break down Luka's teammates nobody talks about how Nuggets have struggled at times without Murray, is Joker not "lifting other teammates up" No because you can't lift scrubs to become stars that's not how it works. It's just something to criticize Luka fo

Joker is great but at full strength that's a good team there's no denying it. You don't win the championship with scrubs which is what some have expected a young Luka to do.

And no one expect luka to win it all but you, and when he falls shorts his teammates are scrubs, vs jus saying his incredible play doesn’t always translates to winning and that’s ok

Don't put words in my mouth I never said Mavs are going to win it all I said this is the first time he's had a team even being close to contenders and they're not even close to the favorites. You're the one expecting him to have multiple championships already at 25 when Jordan didn't win until 27 Lebron didn't win until 27 Joker didn't win until 27 Steph didn't win until 26 I can go on and on. But you're just a hater you find any reason to hate on Luka.

[Ambrose]

Last year his fg was .73 as a full year with the wizards averaging 9ppg
This year after the trade as a maverick it’s .77 and 11ppg

He went up 2ppg and .04 in percentage let’s use normal stats

2 ppg more on 4% better efficiency is still awesome. And that's not even factoring in he's playing less.

That usually happens when people play less on a playoff team vs on the wizards with kuzma nem

Players do not usually score more while playing less, all while also seeing a big increase in efficiency, no, that's not true.

It's even more impressive when you actually look at what he was doing this year before he became a Mav. The difference is clear as day. The eye test shows. The numbers show it. If you don't see it, you're not paying attention.

[Dirk]

Gafford was .73 as a wizard last year he’s .77 as a Mac this year….that’s a really big jump huh

Since the trade his FG% is up 8%, and he's averaging 6 points more per 100 possessions. That's a pretty massive jump.

Last year his fg was .73 as a full year with the wizards averaging 9ppg
This year after the trade as a maverick it’s .77 and 11ppg

He went up 2ppg and .04 in percentage let’s use normal stats

You want to use normal stats for Gafford, but not for Luka?

Luka's "normal stats" are the best in the league... so I guess you must think he is the best.

I read that he broke some record of normal stats (points+rebounds+assists).

[Archx]

You’re trying to equate kyrie year to luka instead of the literally political things I won’t elaborate on is crazy
Like are you serious??

Gafford been doing the same thing he did on the wizards
Pj is doing the same as he was on the hornets
Check the stats if you don’t believe me

What is the 16-1 record arguing???? Gafford when starting makes the mavs much better? Or luka when starting with gafford makes them better? I’m confused on that

His old role players teammates are mostly on tanking teams luka had Brunson who has lead the knicks with injuries this season to a record close to the mavs
And porzingis is a top 3 player on the best team in the league

You're trying to copy personal stats and compare it 1 : 1 without even going further into any context behind them. Then you ask me if i am serious?
So according to your logic, Jokic doesn't elevate his teammates either since guys like Gordon or KCP had better individual seasons with other teams as well. But we know it doesn't work like that.

You lack so many points in your arguments that you need to revert back to Brunson and KP to prove your point. I was talking about ROLE players and KP/Brunson stories are completely different and irrelevant in this context. In case you didn't know, Luka and Brunson did go to WCF together.

I understand now that it's clear you don't watch Mavs and you simply read box scores, so you're either trolling me hard or you lack the awareness of how little you actually know about what it means to elevate the team.

Jokic elevates himself 1st of all, that’s why he’s an nba champion and mvp, he gets better when he needs to and it equates to winning
As a wizards fan I watched gafford play, this is what he do, it’s a reason he rarely plays over 25 mins a game with the mavs
That’s the point luka has seen success with Brunson, so why is this season where he hasn’t landed a top seed supposed to get him an mvp? When he has better role players and a star in kyrie irving

And for you to mention kyrie Boston and Brooklyn as a fiasco without factoring in the political climate he has weather these past few years is insane as a real basketball fan, you can’t be serious at all

Your arguments are like a roller coaster ride i simply have no clue anymore what to respond to. I'll just talk about Mavs standings since i see it botheres you so much.

Mavs had 33 different starting lineups at some point (NBA high) due to injuries and other stuff. They only recently got somewhat healthy and have the 2nd best record in the league since then. If healthy they would have been a higher seed probably. Mavs managed to have a 4th seed last season with Wood and Dinwiddie as their 2nd and 3rd best players before the Kyrie trade? Can you even comprehend how ridiculous that was? Then Luka got injured, they traded away important rotation pieces and FO wanted to tank the season.

Only recently Mavs 5-man lineup passed the 100 minutes treshold. For example Nuggets starting lineup had over 800 minutes played together at that time. Mavs had no continuity or chemistry because of various reasons. Kyrie also already missed over 20 games...

[deneem4]

2 ppg more on 4% better efficiency is still awesome. And that's not even factoring in he's playing less.

That usually happens when people play less on a playoff team vs on the wizards with kuzma nem

Players do not usually score more while playing less, all while also seeing a big increase in efficiency, no, that's not true.

It's even more impressive when you actually look at what he was doing this year before he became a Mav. The difference is clear as day. The eye test shows. The numbers show it. If you don't see it, you're not paying attention.

He was doing the same thing now he has a better team and he’s doing the same thing that’s the point Daniel gafford is still the same Daniel gafford it’s not a big change in efficiency for a center to go from .73 to .77 while playing with hof guys vs Beal and kuzma