The amount of talent in the league today is absurd

[DCasey91]

Hey if you want to complain no stress. But this is the reality now. It’s not like others sports have changed rules and regulation to incentivise offence...

Once again it’s a business model first and foremost above everything else.

My own belief system on the game will never be implemented:
- Smaller court
- Abolish defensive rule for free safety
- 2 hands up front but no back push if player is turned behind
- Allow 90 degree ballhandle but if the hand dips under while dribbling or fingers pointing towards the air auto call
- No gather step. One step max before first and last dribble
- No shuffle on screens

But overall what you do in your time specifically watching/viewing sports is completely up to you.

[Lala870]

Hey if you want to complain no stress. But this is the reality now. It’s not like others sports have changed rules and regulation to incentive offence...

Once again it’s a business model first and foremost above everything else.

My own belief system on the game will never be implemented:
- Smaller court
- Abolish defensive rule for free safety
- 2 hands up front but no back push if player is turned behind
- Allow 90 degree ballhandle but if the hand dips under auto call
- No gather step. One step max before first and last dribble

But overall what you do in your time specifically watching/viewing sports is completely up to you.

Then OP's original point is dead in the water.

No the league is not more talented other than the NBA pivoting to a different "brand" of basketball they want promoted... which is inflating every offensive metric in the book.

The golden state curry warriors have changed the entire narrative but to anyone that actually watched them play you know they are largely a product of officiating especially in the playoffs. Crap like that =/= talent.

If bogut was called for his moving screens golden state would not have one championship

Now the league is pushing zero intensity on defense totally, ironically with draymond green being the poster child for "dirty play"

[Johnny Firpo]

It's mind-boggling to me that some fans are so blinded by their own fandom/memories/nostalgia that they can, with a straight face, say that players today are not more talented. There is an enormous difference/progression in shooting and ball handling skills. Free throw % alone shows you the gradual, decade-by-decade improvement. There is an enormous difference in playcalling, adapting. Just night and day.

The three point shooting revolution have made playing defense much more difficult for obvious reasons. Could this be somehow, should this be somehow slowed down? Perhaps. I wouldn't mind if they came down harder on traveling and palming, sure. Let's do that! I'm actually even open to eliminating the three second rule. If you want to park down a Jokic in the paint, or an Embiid, you should be able to do that. It would actually make the game even more interesting, and teams would have even more 5-out lineups.
.
Also, just going by the size of the talent pool today. NBA Africa Academy, the NBL, all the European leagues... There are many more players playing basketball today, and NBA teams have an even bigger talent pool to choose from than they had in the 90's and 2000's. Now ask yourself the question, how would a bigger talent pool NOT LEAD to finding more talented players on average? Just totally illogical.

[Lala870]

It's mind-boggling to me that some fans are so blinded by their own fandom/memories/nostalgia that they can, with a straight face, say that players today are not more talented

Your not guilty of doing this yourself? You sure about that?

The warriors dynasty should have made it very clear what the league is changing into.

At some point you can only watch so many series where physical defenders get taken out either due to inexplicable coaching decisions or refs while the shooter magically start going off.

The league are experts at manufacturing BS narratives that support this idea the league is improving across every metric. The NBA is becoming a finesse league by design with minimal physical contact.

Edit:

Oh and I forgot! I caught one game of the finals last year and was stunned by the fact Denver could not stop Butler at all and yet Miami kept taking horrible shots. Butler decided to not be a factor for like 3 quarters allowing Denver to do whatever they wanted. I think this was the close out game for Denver where they clinched it but WTF?

One of the most scripted games ive ever seen live. It felt WWE level.

[Johnny Firpo]

Your not guilty of doing this yourself? You sure about that?

I am sure, yeah, because I loved that era too. I was enjoying the 90s basketball, loved MJ. Then I was rooting for the Mavs from as early as 2003, so 21 years by now. To me it's clear that the talent level is higher both in depth and in skill. But that doesn't mean the NBA is perfect, my suggestions in the previous post imo would make it perfect or close to it. Come down on traveling and palming, and eliminate the defensive 3 second rule. Then you would get a mixture of all eras basically, more low post and slower centers could play and even dominate, and you would still have awesome spacing. But anyway, if you think the NBA finals was scripted, that's a level I don't really want to go to. If you think that, I don't even understand why you are watching it. And if you think that, how could you enjoy the 2019 championship run? I don't get it.

[FreeBird23]

It's mind-boggling to me that some fans are so blinded by their own fandom/memories/nostalgia that they can, with a straight face, say that players today are not more talented. There is an enormous difference/progression in shooting and ball handling skills. Free throw % alone shows you the gradual, decade-by-decade improvement. There is an enormous difference in playcalling, adapting. Just night and day.

The three point shooting revolution have made playing defense much more difficult for obvious reasons. Could this be somehow, should this be somehow slowed down? Perhaps. I wouldn't mind if they came down harder on traveling and palming, sure. Let's do that! I'm actually even open to eliminating the three second rule. If you want to park down a Jokic in the paint, or an Embiid, you should be able to do that. It would actually make the game even more interesting, and teams would have even more 5-out lineups.
.
Also, just going by the size of the talent pool today. NBA Africa Academy, the NBL, all the European leagues... There are many more players playing basketball today, and NBA teams have an even bigger talent pool to choose from than they had in the 90's and 2000's. Now ask yourself the question, how would a bigger talent pool NOT LEAD to finding more talented players on average? Just totally illogical.

So to you, talent is all about shooting and dribbling....
Lets me tell you this : basketball was better because young guys knew the fundamentals.

Now its : run, dribble and shoot.

NBA is a mediocre product. People want big scoring, here we are. But a lot of players are in the NBA because the level is low.

[donnieme]

People love to complain about defence in the NBA, and rightfully so to a certain extent, but the simple fact is that players are becoming absurdly good at making 3s which makes teams almost impossible to guard.

When you have 4 or 5 players on a team at any one time that are legitimate threats to make the highest scoring shot in the game, you simply can’t do anything.

Bring back hand checking? What’s that going to do?

Remove 3 in the key so bigs can camp in the lane? Oh wait.. centres make 3s now too..

Fact. I mean defense is wack but it's not why we have this much talent. For one the old guard of the just concluded era have had unprecedented longevity and basically spilled into the current. It's also the 3pt shot. When you add a new shot without any efficiency tradeoff or penalty anywhere else on the floor the output is going through the roof. Give these guys their flowers already.

[TheGOATRises007]

Talent is sky-high.

I disagree on expansion. I think the current amount of teams is fine.

[Jabroni Lames]

The actual absurd thing here is that there are tons of people (aka. 'old heads') who actually believe that basketball players stopped evolving... seconds after MJ won his last championship.

Because basketball, unlike every other facet of life, is immune to evolution. There should be a deep study on this anomaly.

[Gusto1903]

Object of the game is to win. Optimal theory is best practice always has been.

Don’t complain if you don’t “chuck 3’s” and lose.

Both teams get the same shot attempts

One team decides to only shoot outside from 3 once every 8/9 shots

.... once again don’t complain if you lose it’s your own damn fault.

Team sports that have the highest numerical return and have a subset will prefer to go for that

Why should basketball be any different? It shouldn’t.

I'm completely fine, if you chuck threes to win. I always did that on 2K and NBA Live back in the days, because it brings more points obviously.

But dont encourage it and protect it with blatant ballcarries (Curry), travels (Harden) and illegal af screens. Dont restrict defenses, to encourage that style.

[reddyplayerone]

The actual absurd thing here is that there are tons of people (aka. 'old heads') who actually believe that basketball players stopped evolving... seconds after MJ won his last championship.

Because basketball, unlike every other facet of life, is immune to evolution. There should be a deep study on this anomaly.

Except that's not how evolution works like at all. It's an exceptionally slow process.

This era of basketball is different, and it's mostly because of rule changes, and that's fine.

[jstudabaka]

Yeah but don't tell the old heads that -- I should have never liked basketball-related pages on FB. The amount of "muh 90s post-up big would average 50 today" is truly stomach-turning. What's funny is that the 90s were actually a particularly weak era of ball due to the expansion of the late 80s. You had a watered down talent pool. The talent pool really didn't accommodate all the new teams until the international game got stronger post-Dream Team

[jstudabaka]

The actual absurd thing here is that there are tons of people (aka. 'old heads') who actually believe that basketball players stopped evolving... seconds after MJ won his last championship.

Because basketball, unlike every other facet of life, is immune to evolution. There should be a deep study on this anomaly.

Except that's not how evolution works like at all. It's an exceptionally slow process.

This era of basketball is different, and it's mostly because of rule changes, and that's fine.

Really? It's just rule changes? What was stopping players post-1979 from taking more 3s or playing at a faster pace? Was it just considered not a good idea for bigs to be able to pass, shoot, and handle? You'd think Magic's success would have suggested it's a good way to go.

My point is, strategy has clearly evolved and gotten better, as well as the people who play the game. The level of talent far exceeds previous eras, it's not even debatable for anyone looking at things objectively.

[DCasey91]

Object of the game is to win. Optimal theory is best practice always has been.

Don’t complain if you don’t “chuck 3’s” and lose.

Both teams get the same shot attempts

One team decides to only shoot outside from 3 once every 8/9 shots

.... once again don’t complain if you lose it’s your own damn fault.

Team sports that have the highest numerical return and have a subset will prefer to go for that

Why should basketball be any different? It shouldn’t.

I'm completely fine, if you chuck threes to win. I always did that on 2K and NBA Live back in the days, because it brings more points obviously.

But dont encourage it and protect it with blatant ballcarries (Curry), travels (Harden) and illegal af screens. Dont restrict defenses, to encourage that style.

Encourage what? What are you the parent of everything lol

If you cared to look back I already proposed my ideal beliefs on the game. But that’s like saying I want a huge F Off 100 acre land to shoot guns and skate all day. Will that happen? Not in the reality we live in

I’m stating optimal theory

It’s even easier when your opponent has an old man yelling at the clouds mentality

You want an example here’s one:

The Shift in Baseball

Very old methodology to expose a flaw in the game construction (can do the same for cricket)

Did any team care as long it was winning? NOPE

Then boo hoo outcry product changes looks no good as scores were down then change

NFL has QB protection and kick off rule this year

Like seriously “don’t encourage it” ???

“I don’t encourage” the King’s Gambit to a couple of players that needed help even though it’s my favourite opening because it is sub optimal can name 5 others that are strictly better E4 setups without even thinking but hey do whatever don’t listen to me

It’s amusing now that cues are taken from video games and not the other way around

3>2

Facts don’t care about feelings. Learn to live with it

Look I’d much rather have a .22 than a knife on a hunt and if the guy with the knife doesn’t get anything whose to blame?

Quick tip try not to put your own emotional biases on others.

[The High Cyde]

It’s incredibly obvious the league is more talented now than that of the past. It’s alright if not everyone can see it, y’all can watch the 90s and 80s ball, makes no difference to me lmao

[dhsilv2]

The actual absurd thing here is that there are tons of people (aka. 'old heads') who actually believe that basketball players stopped evolving... seconds after MJ won his last championship.

Because basketball, unlike every other facet of life, is immune to evolution. There should be a deep study on this anomaly.

Except that's not how evolution works like at all. It's an exceptionally slow process.

This era of basketball is different, and it's mostly because of rule changes, and that's fine.

Biological evolution is slow. But the term is used outside of biology pretty often. In terms of sports and technology, it's pretty fast moving.

[Wingy]

The actual absurd thing here is that there are tons of people (aka. 'old heads') who actually believe that basketball players stopped evolving... seconds after MJ won his last championship.

Because basketball, unlike every other facet of life, is immune to evolution. There should be a deep study on this anomaly.

I think what the “old heads” take exception to is those that act like the past players couldn’t and wouldn’t have adapted, evolved, and benefited from the current state of the game if this was their era.

You think Jordan wouldn’t maniacally bust his ass to make himself a solid 3p shooter in today’s game? Whatever evolution that’s going to occur in the next 30-40 years, do people think if we could magically plop prime Lebron there, he wouldn’t have been working tirelessly his whole career to be able to compete and thrive in whatever that new trend is? I have zero doubt that they, and players approaching their level, would have trouble adapting as needed.

A significant part of the evolution that enables the now is every generation before it. We are here because they were there. Especially true in sports and tech. Yet the ‘there’ is completely shat upon by some of these youngbloods.

The current generation is better because of sheer population growth, and what has been teed up for them by past generations. Not their fault, but this isn’t something that’s earned, and thus, not something anyone should feel great celebrating and taking victory laps over.

[Lala870]

Your not guilty of doing this yourself? You sure about that?

But anyway, if you think the NBA finals was scripted, that's a level I don't really want to go to. If you think that, I don't even understand why you are watching it. And if you think that, how could you enjoy the 2019 championship run? I don't get it.

I live in a small town and out of sheer boredom some days I will check highlights here and there. I used to play basketball IRL which means I always have a measure of nostalgia for the sport.

I have not watched an NBA season with any level of consistency since the the rigged warriors/OKC series right before KD joined GS.

I still have nightmares to this day of Andre Roberson getting fouls for getting within 3 feet of Klay. The Bogut moving screens were also legendary

[Lala870]

It’s incredibly obvious the league is more talented now than that of the past. It’s alright if not everyone can see it, y’all can watch the 90s and 80s ball, makes no difference to me lmao

Who TF is considered more "talented" these days.

Jokic and Curry are both built like high school kids with zero physical defense being played.


Rondo was on a podcast the other day basically stating physical defenders like dwight can slow Jokic down to a point where his team loses. Youtube wont let me link the video

[reddyplayerone]

The actual absurd thing here is that there are tons of people (aka. 'old heads') who actually believe that basketball players stopped evolving... seconds after MJ won his last championship.

Because basketball, unlike every other facet of life, is immune to evolution. There should be a deep study on this anomaly.

Except that's not how evolution works like at all. It's an exceptionally slow process.

This era of basketball is different, and it's mostly because of rule changes, and that's fine.

Really? It's just rule changes? What was stopping players post-1979 from taking more 3s or playing at a faster pace? Was it just considered not a good idea for bigs to be able to pass, shoot, and handle? You'd think Magic's success would have suggested it's a good way to go.

Changes in coaching philosophies don't represent physical evolution either, which seemed to be what you were suggesting when you very clearly said that players have been evolving.

My point is, strategy has clearly evolved and gotten better, as well as the people who play the game. The level of talent far exceeds previous eras, it's not even debatable for anyone looking at things objectively.

It's just different. It's not better or worse. Just different.

WHY are you and so many so invested in it being better is the much more valuable question to ask.