2024 NBA Playoffs - East 1st Round: #4 Cleveland Cavaliers vs. #5 Orlando Magic (Series tied 3-3)

[JonFromVA]

Exactly I'm glad you can see it would be a great team

This is the real issue, LeBron playing on a cheap contract? Too sitcom, darling...

Straight from LeBron: “My last year will be played with my son. Wherever Bronny is at, that’s where I’ll be. I would do whatever it takes to play with my son for one year. It’s not about the money at that point.”

That's old news at this point, and James has already walked it back.

And without a promise from LeBron, there's little reason for an NBA team to give Jr a first round commitment and he may just go back to College. The question then is where will he go and what if anything will LeBron do so he can continue to catch his games?

[toooskies]

That's the thing about tendinitis it's going to feel fine (especially after rest or treatment) until it flares up. He can try to play through the pain even dunk through the pain if he so chooses, but he's just going to damage his knee more and eventually it's going to catch up to him.

As for a sore back? That could be muscle soreness, bruised ribs, ruptured disc, who knows ... they aren't saying ... but fair chance it's going to get aggravated and flare up due to use and abuse. You'd think at least Garland's conditioning and stamina would continue to improve; but for all we know he spends his free time suspended in an inversion table or simply lacks the recovery time needed to rebuild his strength.

Do you have any indication that Mitchell is actually feeling pain in the knee now? Because he said he's 100% before the series and he's playing as if he's healthy. (Missing shots isn't an indication he's having a flare-up when there are more reasonable explanations.)

How do I know?

History and common sense.

Players and teams lie about injuries in the playoffs - always have, always will. Even after the season is over there are things that don't leak out. Healing takes time and they don't have it.

We know Donovan has already tried PRP and it didn't work. That's our first clue about the severity of his knee. He wouldn't bother with PRP if his knee was responding to normal treatment and therapy. He may have moved on to approaches that help him deal with the pain rather than treat the injury such as pills or cortisone shots, etc; but there are additional risks to ignoring pain either through will or pill.

It's a much simpler explanation that his knee issues cleared up gradually the same way his performance improved gradually. I'm sure he was taking something for the pain in his first few games back, but you could also tell he wasn't right, couldn't even really run on it let alone jump.

[Iwasawitness]

I can already see Cavs drafting Bronny and LeBron signing a 2 yr team friendly deal to try and win one more in Cleveland

I don’t want this. This is Cleveland’s last first round pick for the rest of this decade (not counting the pick swaps which we don’t own). I’d rather they not waste it on someone who probably won’t make the team any better if we’re being honest (unless he can maintain his three point shooting going into next season, in which case fair enough).

I have no interest in Bronny but if it means we get 2 or 3 years of LeBron on a cheap contract then drafting him is an easy move. LeBron is still a darn good player and he easily fits into this team.

Does he thought? If Mobley’s improved three point shooting is a permanent thing, then sure. Otherwise, he’s going to be required to play defense and he’d have to be involved in every offensive play even if he doesn’t have the ball. I don’t see that happening.

[mcfly1204]

This is the real issue, LeBron playing on a cheap contract? Too sitcom, darling...

Straight from LeBron: “My last year will be played with my son. Wherever Bronny is at, that’s where I’ll be. I would do whatever it takes to play with my son for one year. It’s not about the money at that point.”

That's old news at this point, and James has already walked it back.

And without a promise from LeBron, there's little reason for an NBA team to give Jr a first round commitment and he may just go back to College. The question then is where will he go and what if anything will LeBron do so he can continue to catch his games?

Not to mention, LeBron is not exactly a man of his word...

[JonFromVA]

Do you have any indication that Mitchell is actually feeling pain in the knee now? Because he said he's 100% before the series and he's playing as if he's healthy. (Missing shots isn't an indication he's having a flare-up when there are more reasonable explanations.)

How do I know?

History and common sense.

Players and teams lie about injuries in the playoffs - always have, always will. Even after the season is over there are things that don't leak out. Healing takes time and they don't have it.

We know Donovan has already tried PRP and it didn't work. That's our first clue about the severity of his knee. He wouldn't bother with PRP if his knee was responding to normal treatment and therapy. He may have moved on to approaches that help him deal with the pain rather than treat the injury such as pills or cortisone shots, etc; but there are additional risks to ignoring pain either through will or pill.

It's a much simpler explanation that his knee issues cleared up gradually the same way his performance improved gradually. I'm sure he was taking something for the pain in his first few games back, but you could also tell he wasn't right, couldn't even really run on it let alone jump.

His knee pain can clear up, that's certainly one possibility ... it can also come right back. That's the nature of tendinitis. Only long rest and time to heal will change that, but he doesn't look like he's 100% to me.

I mean consider, it's been just over a month ago since he had surgery on his nose. Just because he got frustrated with wearing that mask over his face doesn't mean he should have stopped wearing it ... but he's prioritizing his performance over his health like players are encouraged to do come playoff time.

Fact is Mitchell and Garland are contributing and the Cavs need both of them, but they are not and may never come close to 100% during these playoffs. I'm just hoping we don't see a situation again like when Kyrie bumped knees in the finals and his knee exploded. JBB has been running reasonable rotations so far, but when push comes to shove it wouldn't surprise me if he loses track of how many minutes he's played some of the guys again, and fatigue leads to stress, and stress can lead to knees exploding.

[toooskies]

How do I know?

History and common sense.

Players and teams lie about injuries in the playoffs - always have, always will. Even after the season is over there are things that don't leak out. Healing takes time and they don't have it.

We know Donovan has already tried PRP and it didn't work. That's our first clue about the severity of his knee. He wouldn't bother with PRP if his knee was responding to normal treatment and therapy. He may have moved on to approaches that help him deal with the pain rather than treat the injury such as pills or cortisone shots, etc; but there are additional risks to ignoring pain either through will or pill.

It's a much simpler explanation that his knee issues cleared up gradually the same way his performance improved gradually. I'm sure he was taking something for the pain in his first few games back, but you could also tell he wasn't right, couldn't even really run on it let alone jump.

His knee pain can clear up, that's certainly one possibility ... it can also come right back. That's the nature of tendinitis. Only long rest and time to heal will change that, but he doesn't look like he's 100% to me.

I mean consider, it's been just over a month ago since he had surgery on his nose. Just because he got frustrated with wearing that mask over his face doesn't mean he should have stopped wearing it ... but he's prioritizing his performance over his health like players are encouraged to do come playoff time.

Fact is Mitchell and Garland are contributing and the Cavs need both of them, but they are not and may never come close to 100% during these playoffs. I'm just hoping we don't see a situation again like when Kyrie bumped knees in the finals and his knee exploded. JBB has been running reasonable rotations so far, but when push comes to shove it wouldn't surprise me if he loses track of how many minutes he's played some of the guys again, and fatigue leads to stress, and stress can lead to knees exploding.

He's not playing at his absolute best, but most of that is rust/rhythm/feel which he missed because he was out for so many games and physically impaired in a lot of other ones. He might have a level or two of conditioning to get through, too. Suffice to say, though, that dropping 30 on Orlando in game 1 and his first quarter in game 2 both looked a lot closer to 100% than, say, the Denver or Phoenix games.

Yes, Donovan's knee might get bad again. It also might be perfectly fine. Evan could turn an ankle again, or not. Jarrett could get another hand injury. Garland's jaw could re-break on the next screen he sets. But it's probably more likely that they don't, especially since there's often two or more days of rest between games.

[JonFromVA]

Straight from LeBron: “My last year will be played with my son. Wherever Bronny is at, that’s where I’ll be. I would do whatever it takes to play with my son for one year. It’s not about the money at that point.”

That's old news at this point, and James has already walked it back.

And without a promise from LeBron, there's little reason for an NBA team to give Jr a first round commitment and he may just go back to College. The question then is where will he go and what if anything will LeBron do so he can continue to catch his games?

Not to mention, LeBron is not exactly a man of his word...

He's misled fans, changed his mind on things, but I wouldn't go that far.

[jbk1234]

Sorry, but I see no scenario where LBJ opts out of $51M to come play in Cleveland for cheap. He's not built that way. His entire career fans have been opining about LBJ taking less for the team and he's never shown the slightest inclination to do that.

[JonFromVA]

It's a much simpler explanation that his knee issues cleared up gradually the same way his performance improved gradually. I'm sure he was taking something for the pain in his first few games back, but you could also tell he wasn't right, couldn't even really run on it let alone jump.

His knee pain can clear up, that's certainly one possibility ... it can also come right back. That's the nature of tendinitis. Only long rest and time to heal will change that, but he doesn't look like he's 100% to me.

I mean consider, it's been just over a month ago since he had surgery on his nose. Just because he got frustrated with wearing that mask over his face doesn't mean he should have stopped wearing it ... but he's prioritizing his performance over his health like players are encouraged to do come playoff time.

Fact is Mitchell and Garland are contributing and the Cavs need both of them, but they are not and may never come close to 100% during these playoffs. I'm just hoping we don't see a situation again like when Kyrie bumped knees in the finals and his knee exploded. JBB has been running reasonable rotations so far, but when push comes to shove it wouldn't surprise me if he loses track of how many minutes he's played some of the guys again, and fatigue leads to stress, and stress can lead to knees exploding.

He's not playing at his absolute best, but most of that is rust/rhythm/feel which he missed because he was out for so many games and physically impaired in a lot of other ones. He might have a level or two of conditioning to get through, too. Suffice to say, though, that dropping 30 on Orlando in game 1 and his first quarter in game 2 both looked a lot closer to 100% than, say, the Denver or Phoenix games.

Yes, Donovan's knee might get bad again. It also might be perfectly fine. Evan could turn an ankle again, or not. Jarrett could get another hand injury. Garland's jaw could re-break on the next screen he sets. But it's probably more likely that they don't, especially since there's often two or more days of rest between games.

Don looked like a player trying to score while he could score because he knew it wasn't going to last and Orlando wasn't even bothering to put Suggs on him ... but we shall see.

[toooskies]

Sorry, but I see no scenario where LBJ opts out of $51M to come play in Cleveland for cheap. He's not built that way. His entire career fans have been opining that LBJ taking less and he's never shown the slightest inclination to do that.

Well, in the interview where he said he wanted to play a year with Bronny, he said the money wouldn't matter.

LeBron also literally took less when he went to Miami to play with the Big Three. (Then said he owed it to the other players in the league not to do that again while he was the best player in the league.)

That said, if he was open to coming to Cleveland, Strus and LeVert going out can escalate LeBron's salary to $40m in a S&T instead of just the MLE. Add Niang and you get to $50m. Ty Jerome to top him off at his option year salary.

[bmurph128]

Cavs need a 20+ppg Garland to have a chance against Boston. He can’t just mindlessly dribble the ball 40 feet from the hoop until the shot clock hits 10.

Garland is a max contract player and he just needs to start playing like it.

I just do not understand this obsession with Garland needing to score x amount of points. If his teammates have it going, there's no point for him to force it.

If we wanted that, we woulda just kept Sexton.

Garland is playing within the flow of the game and the flow of the offense.

Keep in mind, the Magic have led for 0 minutes and 0 seconds in this series. There's no need for anyone on this team to force anything. Take what the defense is giving ya, if that starts not to work, then pivot. Don't pivot before you have to, makes no sense.

I don't care about the points - although he is shooting well and I'd prefer he shoot more - but the turnovers are really bad

[JujitsuFlip]

Do you think Darius has been good in the first 2 games? Do you think he has been good this season? I don’t. He is on a max contract. He was supposed to be Donovan’s running mate. We need more than 16 points and 6 assists with constant aimless dribbling beyond the 3 point line.

Garland has really been given a pass for his regression this year. The plain dealer finally ran a column on it today. The Cavs aren’t going anywhere if this is who Garland is, and I really do believe he is capable of much, much more.

In the current series, i don't think the Cavs need anymore than what Garland has given. I reiterate, the Magic have lead for 0 minutes and 0 seconds in this series... You're wanting Garland to go full Sexton, hijack the offense, and chuck 30 shots so the Cavs lose.

I'm sorry but you're counting dollars without making sense.

I am saying that Garland can't be a 16 points and 6 assists player if we want any chance against Boston. Orlando is an extremely limited team. Our offensive rating through the first 2 games has not been good, so you can't credibly argue that Garland has been a maestro running the offense. We can get away with that against Orlando because of how limited the Magic are but this team cannot survive in the playoffs if Garland can't take his game to a different level.

Honestly--it sounds like you are just thrilled with having a 2-0 lead and closing your eyes to what is happening. I am not asking Garland to be Sexton, obviously, but I want to see him hunt his shot more or move the ball on the perimeter if it isn't there. Do not--DO NOT--mindlessly dribble beyond the 3 point line until the shot clock hits 10 or 11 before you try to get into something.

I think Garland has it in him to be a star, but at some point he needs to prove it. The Cavs desperately need him to step up and I think that begins with him hunting for his own shot.

It all varies seires to series. The Magic have been one of the best defensive teams in the league all season, what are you even talking about?

No, idc, the Cavs should win the series 4-0. But when Mobley and Allen are cookin and Mitchell has a great game 1 and awesome 1st quarter in game 2, Garland doesn't need to hunt anything. It is high basketball IQ to pick your spots. Especially when it leads to wins! Also, i complained about the slowed pace but it's not a Garland thing, the team gets complacent when they go up 20. It is wholly a jb issue to tell them to keep their foot on the Magic's collective throat. Plus it is fatigue since jb plays such a tight rotation, year round.

I don't know if you're watching the games, if that is your conclusion. Yes, he will need to do more against Boston but we're not playing Boston right now, we're playing Orlando.

[JujitsuFlip]

Cavs need a 20+ppg Garland to have a chance against Boston. He can’t just mindlessly dribble the ball 40 feet from the hoop until the shot clock hits 10.

Garland is a max contract player and he just needs to start playing like it.

I just do not understand this obsession with Garland needing to score x amount of points. If his teammates have it going, there's no point for him to force it.

If we wanted that, we woulda just kept Sexton.

Garland is playing within the flow of the game and the flow of the offense.

Keep in mind, the Magic have led for 0 minutes and 0 seconds in this series. There's no need for anyone on this team to force anything. Take what the defense is giving ya, if that starts not to work, then pivot. Don't pivot before you have to, makes no sense.

I don't care about the points - although he is shooting well and I'd prefer he shoot more - but the turnovers are really bad

Yeah, him and Mitchell need to clean up their handle. Reminds me of the year the Warriors picked the Celtics apart in the finals bc no one could competently handled the ball.

Not an issue against the Magic but can/will be deeper in the playoffs.

[mcfly1204]

That's old news at this point, and James has already walked it back.

And without a promise from LeBron, there's little reason for an NBA team to give Jr a first round commitment and he may just go back to College. The question then is where will he go and what if anything will LeBron do so he can continue to catch his games?

Not to mention, LeBron is not exactly a man of his word...

He's misled fans, changed his mind on things, but I wouldn't go that far.

He misled... pretty much everyone. Point being, I think it's fair to say that LeBron does not exactly have the upmost integrity.

[jbk1234]

Sorry, but I see no scenario where LBJ opts out of $51M to come play in Cleveland for cheap. He's not built that way. His entire career fans have been opining that LBJ taking less and he's never shown the slightest inclination to do that.

Well, in the interview where he said he wanted to play a year with Bronny, he said the money wouldn't matter.

LeBron also literally took less when he went to Miami to play with the Big Three. (Then said he owed it to the other players in the league not to do that again while he was the best player in the league.)

That said, if he was open to coming to Cleveland, Strus and LeVert going out can escalate LeBron's salary to $40m in a S&T instead of just the MLE. Add Niang and you get to $50m. Ty Jerome to top him off at his option year salary.

He took a little less, along with Bosh and Wade, so the Heat could sign Haslam, but the reason the Heat had to trade two firsts to the Cavs is he wasn't taking a lot less.

[JonFromVA]

Not to mention, LeBron is not exactly a man of his word...

He's misled fans, changed his mind on things, but I wouldn't go that far.

He misled... pretty much everyone. Point being, I think it's fair to say that LeBron does not exactly have the upmost integrity.

I'm just saying if he gave his word and broke it, that's one thing. Short of that everybody is allowed to change their mind. Not to mention, we really shouldn't hang on to every word these guys say so tightly.

[JujitsuFlip]

Dean Wade has been ruled out for the remainder of the series.

[DowJones]

In the current series, i don't think the Cavs need anymore than what Garland has given. I reiterate, the Magic have lead for 0 minutes and 0 seconds in this series... You're wanting Garland to go full Sexton, hijack the offense, and chuck 30 shots so the Cavs lose.

I'm sorry but you're counting dollars without making sense.

I am saying that Garland can't be a 16 points and 6 assists player if we want any chance against Boston. Orlando is an extremely limited team. Our offensive rating through the first 2 games has not been good, so you can't credibly argue that Garland has been a maestro running the offense. We can get away with that against Orlando because of how limited the Magic are but this team cannot survive in the playoffs if Garland can't take his game to a different level.

Honestly--it sounds like you are just thrilled with having a 2-0 lead and closing your eyes to what is happening. I am not asking Garland to be Sexton, obviously, but I want to see him hunt his shot more or move the ball on the perimeter if it isn't there. Do not--DO NOT--mindlessly dribble beyond the 3 point line until the shot clock hits 10 or 11 before you try to get into something.

I think Garland has it in him to be a star, but at some point he needs to prove it. The Cavs desperately need him to step up and I think that begins with him hunting for his own shot.

We need Garland and Mitchell to be close to 100% healthy to really make noise in the playoffs and they aren't. We can hope their health gets better and not worse as the playoffs go on, but it's a crap shoot.

At least they're on the floor and other teams have their own health concerns.

On the bright side, Mobley and Allen seem healthy and have had a huge impact on the series so far.

Mitchell won't be right for the remainder of the year. I guess Garland is still banged up, but who isn't this time of the year?

Playing Mobley and Allen together brings about problems of their own.

[JujitsuFlip]

Sorry, but I see no scenario where LBJ opts out of $51M to come play in Cleveland for cheap. He's not built that way. His entire career fans have been opining that LBJ taking less and he's never shown the slightest inclination to do that.

Well, in the interview where he said he wanted to play a year with Bronny, he said the money wouldn't matter.

LeBron also literally took less when he went to Miami to play with the Big Three. (Then said he owed it to the other players in the league not to do that again while he was the best player in the league.)

That said, if he was open to coming to Cleveland, Strus and LeVert going out can escalate LeBron's salary to $40m in a S&T instead of just the MLE. Add Niang and you get to $50m. Ty Jerome to top him off at his option year salary.

He took a little less, along with Bosh and Wade, so the Heat could sign Haslam, but the reason the Heat had to trade two firsts to the Cavs is he wasn't taking a lot less.

LeBron wasn't the highest paid player on his team until his 12th season in the league...

This isn't Melo we're talking about here who chased money his entire career at the expense of winning.

[jbk1234]

Cavs need a 20+ppg Garland to have a chance against Boston. He can’t just mindlessly dribble the ball 40 feet from the hoop until the shot clock hits 10.

Garland is a max contract player and he just needs to start playing like it.

I just do not understand this obsession with Garland needing to score x amount of points. If his teammates have it going, there's no point for him to force it.

If we wanted that, we woulda just kept Sexton.

Garland is playing within the flow of the game and the flow of the offense.

Keep in mind, the Magic have led for 0 minutes and 0 seconds in this series. There's no need for anyone on this team to force anything. Take what the defense is giving ya, if that starts not to work, then pivot. Don't pivot before you have to, makes no sense.

I don't care about the points - although he is shooting well and I'd prefer he shoot more - but the turnovers are really bad

They're really nowhere as bad as fans make them out to be. He's tasked with running the offense and facilitating for his teammates, with the best defender on a good defensive team assigned to him.