2024 NBA Playoffs - East 1st Round: #4 Cleveland Cavaliers vs. #5 Orlando Magic (CLE WINS 4-3)

[tooler]

Specifically, it started out looking like Mobley was going to shutdown Paolo again, but then Paolo started elbowing him in the chest to create space and then shooting over him.

I'd call it lowering the shoulder, and I'd describe it as Paolo learning how the refs call fouls in the playoffs and how to use his size effectively. They haven't been calling much of the usual stuff that worked for him in the regular season.

If you re-watch the highlights you'll see they were almost all turnaround jump shots anyway. The Cavs could probably defend him the same way and see if the shots still go in. Paolo is in uncharted territory right now so there's no telling what happens next game.

[srhcan]

Cavs should be ashamed losing by 40 points to such a newbie team

[MagicMatic]

Garland looks broke this series. It's one thing to get defended by an veteran on-ball stopper, it's another thing when it's a third year guard.

Even with the injury excuses.

Suggs was switched onto Mitchell this game…

1-6 from 3 and 6-16fg…

Suggs is one of the best defensive guards in the league. Tf you talking about

[FrightCoward]

Banchero has had several big games in the regular season against the Cavs including 42 at Cleveland earlier this year on 16-26 shooting without even attempting a three, he can score on Allen and Mobley, he’s done it multiple times before. Guy was on a mission last night, you know Cleveland is going to try their darndest not to let it happen again.

[Hans1984]

Cavs embarassed themselves. 61 points after three quarters

[JujitsuFlip]

Banchero has had several big games in the regular season against the Cavs including 42 at Cleveland earlier this year on 16-26 shooting without even attempting a three, he can score on Allen and Mobley, he’s done it multiple times before. Guy was on a mission last night, you know Cleveland is going to try their darndest not to let it happen again.

I'd move Morris into the starting 5 in place of Strus and cut Niang's minutes to 0 in game 4.

I don't think Morris has the foot speed to stay with Paolo but thankfully he's not using speed to get most of his points and even if he does, in theory one of Mobley or Allen should be back there.

Morris has the strength and toughness to be physical with Paolo for 6 fouls. Once he fouls out, pivot but if they can contain Paolo early, that will free up Mobley to guard Franz.

Just a thought on how to muddy up the game a bit and make it feel more like a grind.

[jbk1234]

The Garland excuse making is laughable. The standards seem to just keep dropping for the kid. Are we talking about an All-Star/max contract player/top 5 pick? Because the way some of you Cavs fans talk about him, you seem content with him playing like a low-level starter and expect nothing more just because the Cavs are winning on the back of their DEFENSE - not their struggling offense (both in these playoffs and the regular season). A defense he has little to do with.

I mean he’s averaging close to as many turnovers (4.5) as he is field goal makes (5.5). He’s aimlessly pounding the life out of the ball at times without creating any real offensive advantages. No one is asking him to “hijack the offense” and freeze out the bigs. He simply needs to stop throwing the ball away so much, be quicker to make decisions, and be more of a threat to score. Especially down the stretches of games, he’s just been terrible.

I really don’t care to hear excuses about him coming back from injury because that’s the story of his whole career. He’s always in an out of the lineup with little injuries here and there.

I think the entire team is underutilized except Jarrett Allen because we have a coach who struggles using every player on the roster effectively. Allen is a bit of an exception as him games more simplified and min maxed than dynamic so you can’t even misuse him.

Fire JB and hire Bud and watch everyone on the team go up two levels. This is an ECF team hiding in plain sight because the coach is horrible.

Eh, I think the Magic roster is objectively better players 5-12 than the Cavs. Another coach probably helps, but Altman spent $40M+ on Strus, LeVert, and Niang last summer and they've been badly outmatched by their counterparts on the Magic. Okoro's defensive efficacy disappears when he gives up more than a couple of inches. None of TT, Morris, nor D. Jones will be in the NBA next year.

Goga, who is Orlando's 5th big and has gotten zero minutes in this series, would get minutes ahead of at least those 3 and maybe Niang the way he's been shooting.

Even if Mitchell stays and JBB goes, Altman has some work to do as an ECF team shouldn't be as dependent upon Dean Wade's health as we are.

[JonFromVA]

Specifically, it started out looking like Mobley was going to shutdown Paolo again, but then Paolo started elbowing him in the chest to create space and then shooting over him.

I'd call it lowering the shoulder, and I'd describe it as Paolo learning how the refs call fouls in the playoffs and how to use his size effectively. They haven't been calling much of the usual stuff that worked for him in the regular season.

If you re-watch the highlights you'll see they were almost all turnaround jump shots anyway. The Cavs could probably defend him the same way and see if the shots still go in. Paolo is in uncharted territory right now so there's no telling what happens next game.

If you watch the non-highlights (go check nba.com's live box score), you'd see he's extending his elbow in to the defender in some of them. He very well could brick some of them in the future because as you pointed out he does make the shots harder than they probably need to - at least in the cases he's completely displaced the defender.

Either way, an offensive player initiating contact that gives him an advantage outside the restricted area? That's a foul. Throwing an elbow inside the restricted area should be a foul too.

The incidental contact rule lets refs ignore contact initiated by a smaller player .vs. a larger player, but Mobley is probably some 30lbs lighter than Paolo and the rules are supposed to protect him and any other smaller player Paolo decides to run over.

Not this game, who knows about the next one.

The Cavs need to be able to adapt to how the game is being called and either give as good as they get, or start getting feisty and force the refs to start blowing a tighter whistle. I guess they're just good sports and are content to be up 2-1 going in to game 3.

[basketballRob]

Specifically, it started out looking like Mobley was going to shutdown Paolo again, but then Paolo started elbowing him in the chest to create space and then shooting over him.

I'd call it lowering the shoulder, and I'd describe it as Paolo learning how the refs call fouls in the playoffs and how to use his size effectively. They haven't been calling much of the usual stuff that worked for him in the regular season.

If you re-watch the highlights you'll see they were almost all turnaround jump shots anyway. The Cavs could probably defend him the same way and see if the shots still go in. Paolo is in uncharted territory right now so there's no telling what happens next game.

If you watch the non-highlights (go check nba.com's live box score), you'd see he's extending his elbow in to the defender in some of them. He very well could brick some of them in the future because as you pointed out he does make the shots harder than they probably need to - at least in the cases he's completely displaced the defender.

Either way, an offensive player initiating contact that gives him an advantage outside the restricted area? That's a foul. Throwing an elbow inside the restricted area should be a foul too.

The incidental contact rule lets refs ignore contact initiated by a smaller player .vs. a larger player, but Mobley is probably some 30lbs lighter than Paolo and the rules are supposed to protect him and any other smaller player Paolo decides to run over.

Not this game, who knows about the next one.

The Cavs need to be able to adapt to how the game is being called and either give as good as they get, or start getting feisty and force the refs to start blowing a tighter whistle. I guess they're just good sports and are content to be up 2-1 going in to game 3.

The game would take too long if they called every little thing. Look at how many times Garland and Mitchell push off.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Residual-Heat]

The Garland excuse making is laughable. The standards seem to just keep dropping for the kid. Are we talking about an All-Star/max contract player/top 5 pick? Because the way some of you Cavs fans talk about him, you seem content with him playing like a low-level starter and expect nothing more just because the Cavs are winning on the back of their DEFENSE - not their struggling offense (both in these playoffs and the regular season). A defense he has little to do with.

I mean he’s averaging close to as many turnovers (4.5) as he is field goal makes (5.5). He’s aimlessly pounding the life out of the ball at times without creating any real offensive advantages. No one is asking him to “hijack the offense” and freeze out the bigs. He simply needs to stop throwing the ball away so much, be quicker to make decisions, and be more of a threat to score. Especially down the stretches of games, he’s just been terrible.

I really don’t care to hear excuses about him coming back from injury because that’s the story of his whole career. He’s always in an out of the lineup with little injuries here and there.

I think the entire team is underutilized except Jarrett Allen because we have a coach who struggles using every player on the roster effectively. Allen is a bit of an exception as him games more simplified and min maxed than dynamic so you can’t even misuse him.

Fire JB and hire Bud and watch everyone on the team go up two levels. This is an ECF team hiding in plain sight because the coach is horrible.

Eh, I think the Magic roster is objectively better players 5-12 than the Cavs. Another coach probably helps, but Altman spent $40M+ on Strus, LeVert, and Niang last summer and they've been badly outmatched by their counterparts on the Magic. Okoro's defensive efficacy disappears when he gives up more than a couple of inches. None of TT, Morris, nor D. Jones will be in the NBA next year.

Goga, who is Orlando's 5th big and has gotten zero minutes in this series, would get minutes ahead of at least those 3 and maybe Niang the way he's been shooting.

Even if Mitchell stays and JBB goes, Altman has some work to do as an ECF team shouldn't be as dependent upon Dean Wade's health as we are.

Levert, OKoro and Strus are all better than Fultz and atleast as good as Gary Harris and Cole.

[JonFromVA]

Garland looks broke this series. It's one thing to get defended by an veteran on-ball stopper, it's another thing when it's a third year guard.

Even with the injury excuses.

Suggs was switched onto Mitchell this game…

1-6 from 3 and 6-16fg…

Suggs is one of the best defensive guards in the league. Tf you talking about

I just watched a bunch of Mitchell's attempts before the game got out of hand, and not many of them included Suggs. It's not that hard to get a specific player switched off of you. Mitchell seemed to like to pick on Paolo, but Paolo had a fair bit of help in the paint. WCJ seemed to just be camping under the rim ignoring Allen. Or was he close enough to be considered defending Allen?

Debatable.

But for all their focus on improving their floor spacing this season, they're still trying to ISO attack a packed paint.

[JujitsuFlip]

Garland looks broke this series. It's one thing to get defended by an veteran on-ball stopper, it's another thing when it's a third year guard.

Even with the injury excuses.

Suggs was switched onto Mitchell this game…

1-6 from 3 and 6-16fg…

Suggs is one of the best defensive guards in the league. Tf you talking about

I just watched a bunch of Mitchell's attempts before the game got out of hand, and not many of them included Suggs. It's not that hard to get a specific player switched off of you. Mitchell seemed to like to pick on Paolo, but Paolo had a fair bit of help in the paint. WCJ seemed to just be camping under the rim ignoring Allen. Or was he close enough to be considered defending Allen?

Debatable.

But for all their focus on improving their floor spacing this season, they're still trying to ISO attack a packed paint.

That won't change until jb is no longer the Cavs HC, guy sucks.

People talk about the likes of Taylor Jenkins and Mark Daigneault elevating their teams and getting the most out of players. Where jb is the exact opposite and makes players worse.

[JonFromVA]

Suggs was switched onto Mitchell this game…

1-6 from 3 and 6-16fg…

Suggs is one of the best defensive guards in the league. Tf you talking about

I just watched a bunch of Mitchell's attempts before the game got out of hand, and not many of them included Suggs. It's not that hard to get a specific player switched off of you. Mitchell seemed to like to pick on Paolo, but Paolo had a fair bit of help in the paint. WCJ seemed to just be camping under the rim ignoring Allen. Or was he close enough to be considered defending Allen?

Debatable.

But for all their focus on improving their floor spacing this season, they're still trying to ISO attack a packed paint.

That won't change until jb is no longer the Cavs HC, guy sucks.

People talk about the likes of Taylor Jenkins and Mark Daigneault elevating their teams and getting the most out of players. Where jb is the exact opposite and makes players worse.

Well, if he's even on Mosley's level, he should be able to figure out an adjustment for game 4. That's kind of the minimum that when you lose by 40 that you don't just assume you can come out, do the same thing, and your shots will go in, you'll get the calls, and the other team won't.

[MagicMatic]

Garland looks broke this series. It's one thing to get defended by an veteran on-ball stopper, it's another thing when it's a third year guard.

Even with the injury excuses.

Suggs was switched onto Mitchell this game…

1-6 from 3 and 6-16fg…

Suggs is one of the best defensive guards in the league. Tf you talking about

I just watched a bunch of Mitchell's attempts before the game got out of hand, and not many of them included Suggs. It's not that hard to get a specific player switched off of you. Mitchell seemed to like to pick on Paolo, but Paolo had a fair bit of help in the paint. WCJ seemed to just be camping under the rim ignoring Allen. Or was he close enough to be considered defending Allen?

Debatable.

But for all their focus on improving their floor spacing this season, they're still trying to ISO attack a packed paint.

Thats kinda the point. Mitchell spent a lot of time and energy getting switches to get Suggs off of him. Thats why you only see him taking those shots without Suggs nearby. He had him in jail otherwise.

Garland did a better job with Suggs on him in the first two games. The result was Mitchell having 23 and 30 point games. Garland just didn't shoot well in game 3.

[JujitsuFlip]

I just watched a bunch of Mitchell's attempts before the game got out of hand, and not many of them included Suggs. It's not that hard to get a specific player switched off of you. Mitchell seemed to like to pick on Paolo, but Paolo had a fair bit of help in the paint. WCJ seemed to just be camping under the rim ignoring Allen. Or was he close enough to be considered defending Allen?

Debatable.

But for all their focus on improving their floor spacing this season, they're still trying to ISO attack a packed paint.

That won't change until jb is no longer the Cavs HC, guy sucks.

People talk about the likes of Taylor Jenkins and Mark Daigneault elevating their teams and getting the most out of players. Where jb is the exact opposite and makes players worse.

Well, if he's even on Mosley's level, he should be able to figure out an adjustment for game 4. That's kind of the minimum that when you lose by 40 that you don't just assume you can come out, do the same thing, and your shots will go in, you'll get the calls, and the other team won't.

You have more faith in jb than i do lol

I fully anticipate no change from game 3 to 4. jb couldn't figure out the Knicks last season.

If all it takes for the Magic to win the series is switching their PnR coverage and swapping WCJ for JI in the starting 5, then kudos to Mosley. Those are some rudimentary changes, that in theory should be countered in-game. But not with jb, game 3 was completely thrown away.

When the Magic were up 20 in the 2nd quarter, i knew the game was over. Because games 1 and 2, the Cavs went up 20 and then the lead got cut to single digits. So in game 3 when the Magic are up 20 they just added another 20 on top of it.

[JonFromVA]

That won't change until jb is no longer the Cavs HC, guy sucks.

People talk about the likes of Taylor Jenkins and Mark Daigneault elevating their teams and getting the most out of players. Where jb is the exact opposite and makes players worse.

Well, if he's even on Mosley's level, he should be able to figure out an adjustment for game 4. That's kind of the minimum that when you lose by 40 that you don't just assume you can come out, do the same thing, and your shots will go in, you'll get the calls, and the other team won't.

You have more faith in jb than i do lol

I fully anticipate no change from game 3 to 4. jb couldn't figure out the Knicks last season.

If all it takes for the Magic to win the series is switching their PnR coverage and swapping WCJ for JI in the starting 5, then kudos to Mosley. Those are some rudimentary changes, that in theory should be countered in-game. But not with jb, game 3 was completely thrown away.

When the Magic were up 20 in the 2nd quarter, i knew the game was over. Because games 1 and 2, the Cavs went up 20 and then the lead got cut to single digits. So in game 3 when the Magic are up 20 they just added another 20 on top of it.

Oh, it has nothing to do with faith in Bickerstaff, but there is in theory an entire organization backing him up. I mean the "Death Lineup" was just a suggestion an assistant made to Steve Kerr in the finals.

Heck, Mike Brown used to talk to Pops in between games and ask him for advice.

Doing absolutely nothing would be a case of gross malfeasance.

[jbk1234]

I think the entire team is underutilized except Jarrett Allen because we have a coach who struggles using every player on the roster effectively. Allen is a bit of an exception as him games more simplified and min maxed than dynamic so you can’t even misuse him.

Fire JB and hire Bud and watch everyone on the team go up two levels. This is an ECF team hiding in plain sight because the coach is horrible.

Eh, I think the Magic roster is objectively better players 5-12 than the Cavs. Another coach probably helps, but Altman spent $40M+ on Strus, LeVert, and Niang last summer and they've been badly outmatched by their counterparts on the Magic. Okoro's defensive efficacy disappears when he gives up more than a couple of inches. None of TT, Morris, nor D. Jones will be in the NBA next year.

Goga, who is Orlando's 5th big and has gotten zero minutes in this series, would get minutes ahead of at least those 3 and maybe Niang the way he's been shooting.

Even if Mitchell stays and JBB goes, Altman has some work to do as an ECF team shouldn't be as dependent upon Dean Wade's health as we are.

Levert, OKoro and Strus are all better than Fultz and atleast as good as Gary Harris and Cole.

Over the course of this series:

Strus is shooting 2/14 from 3 . He's scored 18 points over three games to go with 5 turnovers.

Okoro is shooting 2/7 from 3. He's scored 14 points over three games to go along with 4 turnovers.

Levert is 3/10 from 3. He's scored 28 points (15 of which came last night) to go along with 4 turnovers.

Now these are the guys who get the open looks when opposing teams focus on Garland/Mitchell, or at least face off against the other team's worst defenders.

Strus is capable of playing much better. LeVert is playing about as expected in terms of good game/ bad game. Okoro was a non-factor in game 1, had a decent game 2, and was awful last night.

[JujitsuFlip]

Well, if he's even on Mosley's level, he should be able to figure out an adjustment for game 4. That's kind of the minimum that when you lose by 40 that you don't just assume you can come out, do the same thing, and your shots will go in, you'll get the calls, and the other team won't.

You have more faith in jb than i do lol

I fully anticipate no change from game 3 to 4. jb couldn't figure out the Knicks last season.

If all it takes for the Magic to win the series is switching their PnR coverage and swapping WCJ for JI in the starting 5, then kudos to Mosley. Those are some rudimentary changes, that in theory should be countered in-game. But not with jb, game 3 was completely thrown away.

When the Magic were up 20 in the 2nd quarter, i knew the game was over. Because games 1 and 2, the Cavs went up 20 and then the lead got cut to single digits. So in game 3 when the Magic are up 20 they just added another 20 on top of it.

Oh, it has nothing to do with faith in Bickerstaff, but there is in theory an entire organization backing him up. I mean the "Death Lineup" was just a suggestion an assistant made to Steve Kerr in the finals.

Heck, Mike Brown used to talk to Pops in between games and ask him for advice.

Doing absolutely nothing would be a case of gross malfeasance.

He could always ask his pops but he wasn't a very good coach either lol

[Residual-Heat]

Eh, I think the Magic roster is objectively better players 5-12 than the Cavs. Another coach probably helps, but Altman spent $40M+ on Strus, LeVert, and Niang last summer and they've been badly outmatched by their counterparts on the Magic. Okoro's defensive efficacy disappears when he gives up more than a couple of inches. None of TT, Morris, nor D. Jones will be in the NBA next year.

Goga, who is Orlando's 5th big and has gotten zero minutes in this series, would get minutes ahead of at least those 3 and maybe Niang the way he's been shooting.

Even if Mitchell stays and JBB goes, Altman has some work to do as an ECF team shouldn't be as dependent upon Dean Wade's health as we are.

Levert, OKoro and Strus are all better than Fultz and atleast as good as Gary Harris and Cole.

Over the course of this series:

Strus is shooting 2/14 from 3 . He's scored 18 points over three games to go with 5 turnovers.

Okoro is shooting 2/7 from 3. He's scored 14 points over three games to go along with 4 turnovers.

Levert is 3/10 from 3. He's scored 28 points (15 of which came last night) to go along with 4 turnovers.

Now these are the guys who get the open looks when opposing teams focus on Garland/Mitchell, or at least face off against the other team's worst defenders.

Strus is capable of playing much better. LeVert is playing about as expected in terms of good game/ bad game. Okoro was a non-factor in game 1, had a decent game 2, and was awful last night.

I was more so talking about throughout the season, but even just going off of the play offs. Gary has averaged like 5 ppg. Cole didnt hit one FG until last night. Fultz was alright last night, but he has been bad two games prior and really the whole season he has been one of the worst guards in the league. I would love if the Magic would replace Cole with Levert, Fultz with Okoro, and Harris with Struss. Atleast Levert wont get abused on defense like Cole. Okoro atleast is good at something, and is steph curry compared to Fultz and his jumpshot.

[Roger Murdock]

The Garland excuse making is laughable. The standards seem to just keep dropping for the kid. Are we talking about an All-Star/max contract player/top 5 pick? Because the way some of you Cavs fans talk about him, you seem content with him playing like a low-level starter and expect nothing more just because the Cavs are winning on the back of their DEFENSE - not their struggling offense (both in these playoffs and the regular season). A defense he has little to do with.

I mean he’s averaging close to as many turnovers (4.5) as he is field goal makes (5.5). He’s aimlessly pounding the life out of the ball at times without creating any real offensive advantages. No one is asking him to “hijack the offense” and freeze out the bigs. He simply needs to stop throwing the ball away so much, be quicker to make decisions, and be more of a threat to score. Especially down the stretches of games, he’s just been terrible.

I really don’t care to hear excuses about him coming back from injury because that’s the story of his whole career. He’s always in an out of the lineup with little injuries here and there.

I think the entire team is underutilized except Jarrett Allen because we have a coach who struggles using every player on the roster effectively. Allen is a bit of an exception as him games more simplified and min maxed than dynamic so you can’t even misuse him.

Fire JB and hire Bud and watch everyone on the team go up two levels. This is an ECF team hiding in plain sight because the coach is horrible.

Eh, I think the Magic roster is objectively better players 5-12 than the Cavs. Another coach probably helps, but Altman spent $40M+ on Strus, LeVert, and Niang last summer and they've been badly outmatched by their counterparts on the Magic. Okoro's defensive efficacy disappears when he gives up more than a couple of inches. None of TT, Morris, nor D. Jones will be in the NBA next year.

Goga, who is Orlando's 5th big and has gotten zero minutes in this series, would get minutes ahead of at least those 3 and maybe Niang the way he's been shooting.

Even if Mitchell stays and JBB goes, Altman has some work to do as an ECF team shouldn't be as dependent upon Dean Wade's health as we are.

Yeah they have a better bench but we have by far the best player in the series and 4 of the 5 best players.

Everything about the Cavs indicates they are a poorly coached team. Coaches bring out the best in role players and tweak based on matchups. Everyone except the #1 guy on the court and Allen struggle with the roles. Garland and Mitchell dont synergize together when both are dynamic offball players. Its pathetic. Struss and Merill dont get enough offball action run for them.

Shoring up a bench big is a concern but thats also like the easier roster fix there is.