OT Caitlin Clark's WNBA rookie contract breakdown released

[sikma42]

Yeah, but no one has done the things Caitlin has. Griner had hype, but she wasn't shattering viewership records, ticket sales and jersey sales. You can't compare CC to anyone before her, because she's done things no one else has, and no one else has come close.

Yeah what people need to understand is CC's on court performance in college is indeed unprecedented. Dragged a non-top tier program into the Final 2 years in a row at insane levels of efficiency, especially given her usage rate.

There have been other great performances in womens college ball, but there's never been a carry job that resulted in this much team success at her level of efficiency. It was a better, women's version of Steph's carry job with Davidson in 2008.

Jackie Stiles awhile ago also had insane numbers playing for a small school, but her team just made it to the Elite 8 once.

Did Steph’s Davidson team have any other NBA draft picks? Don’t know if their teammates are comparable bc Iowa actually had 4 star recruits and a WNBA draft pick.


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[Bobbymcgee]

She can't play in the Big 3 during the off-season of the WNBA?

[Doctor MJ]

I'm not trying to be a hater but I'll believe it when I see it. The one flaw I see with her is she's not charismatic and doesn't seem to like attention. I personally don't see her being a transcendent star or moving the WNBA needle in a hugely significant way like some people think. If she had an unbelievable personality - I may have a different opinion.

What more proof do you need?

The three highest rated games in NCAA history, all in a row. Quadrupled the ratings of the previous record for highest rated WNBA draft (5x from last year). Jersey sold out in a day. Fever tickets have doubled in price, probably sold more than ever already, and opposing opponents are having to change venues to fit people in to see the Fever play.

Now, sure, this could be a one-year thing, but the fact is she's already made the WNBA a **** ton of money before even playing a game. She was the biggest ratings draw in NCAA history by a mile, no one comes remotely close. So what else do you need to see?

We have never had a crossover WNBA star ever. She would be the first. Griner had an unbelievable amount of hype also and she fizzled out pretty quick.

I always appreciate people bringing up the hype surrounding Griner because that's a touchstone for me too.

First thing I'll say: When she came out of college I considered her the best prospect we'd ever seen in the WNBA era and that it would be more interesting to try to figure out why she fails to become the GOAT than why she succeeds in becoming the GOAT, because her physical talent was so overwhelming and the impact data I saw from her in college was extreme as well.

I still consider her to be the most physically talented female player we've ever seen, and she had a great pro career...but she didn't even end up the best pro of her draft class (#2 pick Elena Delle Donne was that), let alone being the best of her generation, let alone the GOAT. So what happened?

1. BBIQ matters, and Griner's limitations there were better exposed by pros than college players. I do have her earning DPOY one time in the WNBA, but in a nutshell, smart team offenses could mitigate for her being of her BBIQ limitations. I would draw some parallels here to Artis Gilmore in the men's game. I think when an overwhelming physical specimen shows up they can have their biggest impact early before the rest of the league figures out how to throw them curveballs.

2. Fine motor skills matter. If you can't learn to shoot from range, you're going to be limited offensively.

But with all that said, while a Russell-esque level of domination would have made Griner deal, I think her physical appearance was always going to hold her back as a mainstream celebrity.

[stuporman]

According to basketball reference, scrubby Jontay Porter, the face of dirty money in sports that the NBA would prefer everyone forgets existed, made more money in the league before being banned for life for betting on his own team than she will make in salary while being the face of the league.

...for context.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

This can all be easily explained. For one, thats a pretty great paycheck for 4-5 months of work. But also, sports are an entertainment business. In entertainment, you make what you bring in.

If one musician plays for 20 people at a bar and another musician plays for 75,000 at an arena, should the one playing for 20 people at a bar be paid the 10 million per show Taylor Swift makes? They are doing the same job...

I think people just want to be outraged about stuff these days.

(This isn't directed at anyone here, just seen countless posts on Twitter with people outraged over this.)

OP simply posted a pic depicting her salary, not sure there is any outrage in the post?

What stands out to me is that she was probably earning way more in college with NIL money or whatever. It's just ironic that her pay dramatically decreases going from "amateur"-level to pro.

Also your example doesn't really hold up here. For her to join the WNBA she has to comply with the collective bargaining agreement, which grossly underpays prolific rookies. She's not in charge of the revenue she is bringing in and will basically be subsidizing other WNBA players and the league itself. If she entered the league as a free-agent she'd get the max contract allowed.

Hence me directly saying "This isn't directed at anyone here, just seen countless posts on Twitter with people outraged over this."

She will still be making all of her endorsement deals, its not like they are all dropping her right out of college.

But yes, rookie scale contracts are a thing, so fair point there.

[One_and_Done]

Overpaid given the league loses money.

[dc]

According to basketball reference, scrubby Jontay Porter, the face of dirty money in sports that the NBA would prefer everyone forgets existed, made more money in the league before being banned for life for betting on his own team than she will make in salary while being the face of the league.

...for context.

That's just a result of the CBA and what the players union negotiated and nothing else; certainly nothing Jontay Porter did. It's a union, and unions have existed to make sure everyone gets paid and everyone gets a piece of the pie.

Jontay Porter was a fringe player and pretty much a replaceable guy by every metric, but what he got paid was the result of the CBA negotiated. Sure, it's the star players who are responsible for the vast majority of the revenue (that's who the fans pay to see) but because the union negotiated on behalf of all players, fringe guys like Jontay get a slice as well.

It's not because fringe guys like Jontay are even "worth" what they're paid; it's just that the player union managed to negotiate a minimum salary. That's it. End of story.

WNBA players also get paid what they are as a result of what they negotiated. Seeing as that they've NEVER been a profitable business, it stands to reason that they have a lot less leverage when it comes to negotiating these salary scales. Perhaps CC comes in and changes that. If she's successful and everything works out, they'll make a lot more money and hopefully become profitable and then everyone will get a raise, including on these rookie scale contracts.

[Infinite Llamas]

Yeah, but no one has done the things Caitlin has. Griner had hype, but she wasn't shattering viewership records, ticket sales and jersey sales. You can't compare CC to anyone before her, because she's done things no one else has, and no one else has come close.

Yeah what people need to understand is CC's on court performance in college is indeed unprecedented. Dragged a non-top tier program into the Final 2 years in a row at insane levels of efficiency, especially given her usage rate.

There have been other great performances in womens college ball, but there's never been a carry job that resulted in this much team success at her level of efficiency. It was a better, women's version of Steph's carry job with Davidson in 2008.

Jackie Stiles awhile ago also had insane numbers playing for a small school, but her team just made it to the Elite 8 once.

People probably don’t remember but yeah, Jackie Stiles got a lot of buzz at Missouri State during a Cinderella run back in the early 2000’s. Stiles was a sharpshooter and an exciting player who would have benefitted from social media buzz, instead most had to read about her in newspapers. Injuries totally ruined her career.

But yeah, the Clark buzz is like the Stiles buzz on steroids. Hope she has fantastic success.

[Pablo Escobar]

According to basketball reference, scrubby Jontay Porter, the face of dirty money in sports that the NBA would prefer everyone forgets existed, made more money in the league before being banned for life for betting on his own team than she will make in salary while being the face of the league.

...for context.

Because nobody watches or cares about the wnba. It's basic economics.

[durden_tyler]

According to basketball reference, scrubby Jontay Porter, the face of dirty money in sports that the NBA would prefer everyone forgets existed, made more money in the league before being banned for life for betting on his own team than she will make in salary while being the face of the league.

...for context.

Because nobody watches or cares about the wnba. It's basic economics.

Yes. Good thing Caitlin Clark is going to change that.

[Pablo Escobar]

According to basketball reference, scrubby Jontay Porter, the face of dirty money in sports that the NBA would prefer everyone forgets existed, made more money in the league before being banned for life for betting on his own team than she will make in salary while being the face of the league.

...for context.

Because nobody watches or cares about the wnba. It's basic economics.

Yes. Good thing Caitlin Clark is going to change that.

Hopefully.

[Mirotic12]

That said, we need to remember how much bigger NBA salaries are, compared yo even other players playing same sport. Best non NBA players will get 3 mil tops, you can still buy good Euroleague player for 600k, and majority of pro basketball players around the world, are still way worse than a good Euroleague player.

EuroLeague pays quite a bit more than that.

Listed and reported EuroLeague salaries are the net income amount, while the NBA listed and reported salaries are the gross income amount. Which is obviously a huge difference. So 3 million in EuroLeague, is more like 6 million in the NBA. Also, the highest paid players in Europe have been making around 4-5 million a year in net income (so again double that for NBA), since the 1990s. Since the 1990s, the highest salaries in Europe are consistently well over 3 million per season. And obviously way over that amount if you factor inflation into it. In some cases, the highest paid players in Europe made a lot more than 3 million a season, even without accounting for inflation. Guys like Childress and Mirotic made way more than that, and so have many other players in Europe. If you add inflation in, 3 million isn't even considered a high salary at all historically for the top players. Even like 25-30 years ago, guys like Petrovic, Sabonis, Radja, Kukoc, Galis, Wilkins, and so forth, were making more than 3 million, and in some cases way more than that. Around 15 or so years ago, there were numerous players in Europe making more than that, even if they didn't even play at the EuroLeague level, and instead played in lower level leagues. And again, that's not even accounting for inflation.

As far as EuroLeague players, even good ones, making 600K a season, again, that is net salary, not gross salary. So that's more like 1.2 million in NBA salary. Plus, the salaries in EuroLeague have skyrocketed it recent years, since the pandemic ended. The average EuroLeague salary, if you put it into gross terms like NBA salaries always, are and convert it from the Euro to the US dollar, is now around $2.7 million US dollars gross per season. And if we are comparing EuroLeague salaries to NBA salaries, there is no reason at all to not compare them in the net income salary amount, because NBA player's incomes are always only listed by the gross amount. So $2.7 million US dollars gross per season is the current EuroLeague average salary. That's almost as much as you are saying is the max amount any player can earn.

And clearly, the salaries in EuroLeague are increasing, because prior to the pandemic, the average EuroLeague salary, in gross terms and in US dollars, was around $1.5 million. So the salaries have almost doubled in recent years.

[zero rings]

How many people who complain about salaries in women’s sports actually watch women’s sports?

[E-Balla]

What more proof do you need?

The three highest rated games in NCAA history, all in a row. Quadrupled the ratings of the previous record for highest rated WNBA draft (5x from last year). Jersey sold out in a day. Fever tickets have doubled in price, probably sold more than ever already, and opposing opponents are having to change venues to fit people in to see the Fever play.

Now, sure, this could be a one-year thing, but the fact is she's already made the WNBA a **** ton of money before even playing a game. She was the biggest ratings draw in NCAA history by a mile, no one comes remotely close. So what else do you need to see?

We have never had a crossover WNBA star ever. She would be the first. Griner had an unbelievable amount of hype also and she fizzled out pretty quick.

I always appreciate people bringing up the hype surrounding Griner because that's a touchstone for me too.

First thing I'll say: When she came out of college I considered her the best prospect we'd ever seen in the WNBA era and that it would be more interesting to try to figure out why she fails to become the GOAT than why she succeeds in becoming the GOAT, because her physical talent was so overwhelming and the impact data I saw from her in college was extreme as well.

I still consider her to be the most physically talented female player we've ever seen, and she had a great pro career...but she didn't even end up the best pro of her draft class (#2 pick Elena Delle Donne was that), let alone being the best of her generation, let alone the GOAT. So what happened?

1. BBIQ matters, and Griner's limitations there were better exposed by pros than college players. I do have her earning DPOY one time in the WNBA, but in a nutshell, smart team offenses could mitigate for her being of her BBIQ limitations. I would draw some parallels here to Artis Gilmore in the men's game. I think when an overwhelming physical specimen shows up they can have their biggest impact early before the rest of the league figures out how to throw them curveballs.

2. Fine motor skills matter. If you can't learn to shoot from range, you're going to be limited offensively.

But with all that said, while a Russell-esque level of domination would have made Griner deal, I think her physical appearance was always going to hold her back as a mainstream celebrity.

1. To this I feel like it should be mentioned Griner was the best player easily in the 2016 and 2020 Olympics. Surrounded by teammates and a system that allowed her to just play while everyone else thunk she was absolutely a force outplaying Aja in 2016 and Stewie in 2020. But in the WNBA where her teams aren't as stacked as the Olympics or at Baylor? Flaws showed.

2. I want to point out Griner can't shoot 3s but to say she can't shoot would be an absolute lie. She's an 80% freethrow shooter that has midrange numbers that are arguably better than every other WNBA player in the last decade.

[Doctor MJ]

We have never had a crossover WNBA star ever. She would be the first. Griner had an unbelievable amount of hype also and she fizzled out pretty quick.

I always appreciate people bringing up the hype surrounding Griner because that's a touchstone for me too.

First thing I'll say: When she came out of college I considered her the best prospect we'd ever seen in the WNBA era and that it would be more interesting to try to figure out why she fails to become the GOAT than why she succeeds in becoming the GOAT, because her physical talent was so overwhelming and the impact data I saw from her in college was extreme as well.

I still consider her to be the most physically talented female player we've ever seen, and she had a great pro career...but she didn't even end up the best pro of her draft class (#2 pick Elena Delle Donne was that), let alone being the best of her generation, let alone the GOAT. So what happened?

1. BBIQ matters, and Griner's limitations there were better exposed by pros than college players. I do have her earning DPOY one time in the WNBA, but in a nutshell, smart team offenses could mitigate for her being of her BBIQ limitations. I would draw some parallels here to Artis Gilmore in the men's game. I think when an overwhelming physical specimen shows up they can have their biggest impact early before the rest of the league figures out how to throw them curveballs.

2. Fine motor skills matter. If you can't learn to shoot from range, you're going to be limited offensively.

But with all that said, while a Russell-esque level of domination would have made Griner deal, I think her physical appearance was always going to hold her back as a mainstream celebrity.

1. To this I feel like it should be mentioned Griner was the best player easily in the 2016 and 2020 Olympics. Surrounded by teammates and a system that allowed her to just play while everyone else thunk she was absolutely a force outplaying Aja in 2016 and Stewie in 2020. But in the WNBA where her teams aren't as stacked as the Olympics or at Baylor? Flaws showed.

2. I want to point out Griner can't shoot 3s but to say she can't shoot would be an absolute lie. She's an 80% freethrow shooter that has midrange numbers that are arguably better than every other WNBA player in the last decade.

I appreciate the sincerely response as well as pushing back on Griner's midrange shooting, but your first point confuses me.

In 2016 Griner was 9th on Team USA by MPG and A'ja was still midway through her college career not actually playing for the Olympic team.

In 2020 Griner played a bigger role - actually playing on the court a majority of the time instead of bench - but she still played way less minutes than Stewie.

In neither case was Griner giving +/- indicators that she was more valuable than all the other players.

Re: WNBA team not as stacked. I mean, she was on Taurasi's team generally being less valuable than Taurasi, so in her post-college career while playing in/for the US, she was basically a sidekick-level player. This was a definite disappointment for the most hyped out of college, and greatest physical talent, female to likely ever play the game.

[Shock Defeat]

Overpaid given the league loses money.

Lol so you are saying the players should be playing for free?

How many companies start off losing money for a long ass time? It's called being a startup and being propped up by VC money. WNBA is no different and yet they should be ponying up for Caitlin given her importance. They are lucky that she didn't choose big 3 or a oversees league didn't over her the bag.

Hopefully Caitlin elevates the status of the league but overall wanna is fortunate that Nike exists to pay her what she is really worth.

[jkvonny]

Yeah, but no one has done the things Caitlin has. Griner had hype, but she wasn't shattering viewership records, ticket sales and jersey sales. You can't compare CC to anyone before her, because she's done things no one else has, and no one else has come close.

Yeah what people need to understand is CC's on court performance in college is indeed unprecedented. Dragged a non-top tier program into the Final 2 years in a row at insane levels of efficiency, especially given her usage rate.

There have been other great performances in womens college ball, but there's never been a carry job that resulted in this much team success at her level of efficiency. It was a better, women's version of Steph's carry job with Davidson in 2008.

Jackie Stiles awhile ago also had insane numbers playing for a small school, but her team just made it to the Elite 8 once.

People probably don’t remember but yeah, Jackie Stiles got a lot of buzz at Missouri State during a Cinderella run back in the early 2000’s. Stiles was a sharpshooter and an exciting player who would have benefitted from social media buzz, instead most had to read about her in newspapers. Injuries totally ruined her career.

But yeah, the Clark buzz is like the Stiles buzz on steroids. Hope she has fantastic success.

Also the early days of message boards and chat rooms. lol. '90s and '00s.

I remember that player! She was pretty good. She had multiple surgeries during her time as a pro, too. Lots of injuries. Shes a coach these days, multiple schools. Assistant coach.

[jkvonny]

That said, we need to remember how much bigger NBA salaries are, compared yo even other players playing same sport. Best non NBA players will get 3 mil tops, you can still buy good Euroleague player for 600k, and majority of pro basketball players around the world, are still way worse than a good Euroleague player.

EuroLeague pays quite a bit more than that.

Listed and reported EuroLeague salaries are the net income amount, while the NBA listed and reported salaries are the gross income amount. Which is obviously a huge difference. So 3 million in EuroLeague, is more like 6 million in the NBA. Also, the highest paid players in Europe have been making around 4-5 million a year in net income (so again double that for NBA), since the 1990s. Since the 1990s, the highest salaries in Europe are consistently well over 3 million per season. And obviously way over that amount if you factor inflation into it. In some cases, the highest paid players in Europe made a lot more than 3 million a season, even without accounting for inflation. Guys like Childress and Mirotic made way more than that, and so have many other players in Europe. If you add inflation in, 3 million isn't even considered a high salary at all historically for the top players. Even like 25-30 years ago, guys like Petrovic, Sabonis, Radja, Kukoc, Galis, Wilkins, and so forth, were making more than 3 million, and in some cases way more than that. Around 15 or so years ago, there were numerous players in Europe making more than that, even if they didn't even play at the EuroLeague level, and instead played in lower level leagues. And again, that's not even accounting for inflation.

As far as EuroLeague players, even good ones, making 600K a season, again, that is net salary, not gross salary. So that's more like 1.2 million in NBA salary. Plus, the salaries in EuroLeague have skyrocketed it recent years, since the pandemic ended. The average EuroLeague salary, if you put it into gross terms like NBA salaries always, are and convert it from the Euro to the US dollar, is now around $2.7 million US dollars gross per season. And if we are comparing EuroLeague salaries to NBA salaries, there is no reason at all to not compare them in the net income salary amount, because NBA player's incomes are always only listed by the gross amount. So $2.7 million US dollars gross per season is the current EuroLeague average salary. That's almost as much as you are saying is the max amount any player can earn.

And clearly, the salaries in EuroLeague are increasing, because prior to the pandemic, the average EuroLeague salary, in gross terms and in US dollars, was around $1.5 million. So the salaries have almost doubled in recent years.

True.

The Euroleagues and Asian/Australian leagues pays pretty well for the fringe NBA players /G League players. Also womens league compered to the WNBA.

I could see why many American players end up playing overseas. To continue playing, stay in the loop and gain attention from NBA/WNBA teams, travel/tourism, and to make more money/playing time.

[One_and_Done]

Overpaid given the league loses money.

Lol so you are saying the players should be playing for free?

How many companies start off losing money for a long ass time? It's called being a startup and being propped up by VC money. WNBA is no different and yet they should be ponying up for Caitlin given her importance. They are lucky that she didn't choose big 3 or a oversees league didn't over her the bag.

Hopefully Caitlin elevates the status of the league but overall wanna is fortunate that Nike exists to pay her what she is really worth.

Your "real worth" is what the market for your services are. As a player the market for her services is relatively low, because nobody watches the WNBA and it loses money. As a celebrity her market value is much.higher, but it has relatively little to do with how good she is in the WNBA. She's being paid for being a charismatic winner companies can market, and as long as she doesn't damage that image too much in the WNBA it won't really matter if she's not a top 20 player. Good for her.

If the women's league wants to make more money they should just form a pro-leagur from the top college teams. That's how alot of old football leagues started. Then once it's stable you add some non-college based teams in big markets.

[KembaWalker]

Overpaid given the league loses money.

Lol so you are saying the players should be playing for free?

How many companies start off losing money for a long ass time? It's called being a startup and being propped up by VC money. WNBA is no different and yet they should be ponying up for Caitlin given her importance. They are lucky that she didn't choose big 3 or a oversees league didn't over her the bag.

Hopefully Caitlin elevates the status of the league but overall wanna is fortunate that Nike exists to pay her what she is really worth.

Your "real worth" is what the market for your services are. As a player the market for her services is relatively low, because nobody watches the WNBA and it loses money. As a celebrity her market value is much.higher, but it has relatively little to do with how good she is in the WNBA. She's being paid for being a charismatic winner companies can market, and as long as she doesn't damage that image too much in the WNBA it won't really matter if she's not a top 20 player. Good for her.

If the women's league wants to make more money they should just form a pro-leagur from the top college teams. That's how alot of old football leagues started. Then once it's stable you add some non-college based teams in big markets.

Her real worth is a lot closer to her free market endorsement money than her WNBA salary. Without rookie scale contracts or a maximum salary she would ask for and receive a seven figure yearly contract, easily. She’s getting extremely scammed by being a transcendent athlete