OT Caitlin Clark's WNBA rookie contract breakdown released

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Re: OT Caitlin Clark's WNBA rookie contract breakdown released 

Post#161 » by GSWFan1994 » Wed Apr 17, 2024 4:17 pm

Haldi wrote:I don’t disagree with you, but I do think there’s a delay to these kinds of things. Meaning even if she does “break the cycle”, she won’t be the one to reward from it as much as the next group after her. Im sure it will change throughout her own career of course, but look at how much MJ or Magic made compared to some random player today or even in the 2000s-2010s. The leagues always rack up a lot of the initial money increases when a league blows up in popularity before eventually including the players in that increase of profits.


You're most certainly right. Now, what gets me thinking is that the context nowadays is different from when that happened in the past.

There are two ways I can explain that to you:

- The broadcasting rights are much, much bigger than in the past. I mean, if you did read the link I posted in the post above, you can see the TV (streaming included?) rights can jump from 60 million/season to 120 million/season. This means the BRI, thus the salary cap (which I'm not sure it exists/works the same as in the NBA) can explode, affecting the players' salaries in a major way, in a very short amount of time.

- Social media is much bigger than relative to 5/10/15 years ago. And it will only go up in terms of generating revenue, both directly to the player's pockets (affecting the player's salaries) and indirectly (off-court opportunities for endorsements, bigger salaries playing abroad, etc).

I think those two factors could provide a mean to accelerate what we have been discussing in this economic model, so in the end it could take only, let's say, a couple of years for the players to reap those benefits.

Basically, the amount of money involved in entertainment nowadays is substantially bigger than in the past. There's simply a bigger pie for all to eat. And truthfully, I'm not talking only in sports, but all of entertainment, like movies, tv shows, videogames, etc.

Greetings, appreciate your post.
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Re: OT Caitlin Clark's WNBA rookie contract breakdown released 

Post#162 » by docholliday99 » Wed Apr 17, 2024 4:21 pm

KembaWalker wrote:The NBA has this power over incoming rookies because it’s an institution and in the post MJ era it’s bigger than any singular player, even the biggest stars. The WNBA is not that. If Caitlin really wanted to, she could hold out, and she would win, rather easily and quickly.

No one woman should be burdened with the singular weight of carrying and building an entire league for 70,000 a year. This is more than has ever been asked of any basketball player. This is less than half of what George Mikan was making in 1948 inflation adjusted. Give her what she’s worth to the league


This is not how business works. The League has no idea what she's worth to the business model, she hasn't played a minute yet and because of that, how does one actually derive a commiserate pay scale

The reality is, not many people watch the WNBA and because of that, the league has lost money every year since inception. Will Caitlin change that? Probably initially and then it will fall back to the mean. The other big issue the WNBA has is merchandising. Since men predominately make-up the fanbase of both the NBA and the WNBA, how do you appeal to the male gender with merchandising? For example, men and women will wear NBA Jersey's and women will wear WNBA jerseys but since the predominate gender base is male, how many males will wear a Caitlin Clark jersey? Or shoes endorsed?

If you go by statics (2205 respondents), gender breakdown of the fans are as follows (as of March 2023):
NBA
Males
31% Avid Fans
35% Casual Fans
34% Not a fan

Women
10% Avid Fans
28% Casual Fans
63% Not a fan
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1098381/national-basketball-association-interest-gender/

WNBA
Males
11% Avid Fans
29% Casual Fans
60% Not a fan

Women
4% Avid Fans
19% Casual Fans
77% Not a fan
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1108312/women-national-basketball-association-interest-gender/#:~:text=In%20a%20survey%20conducted%20in,avid%20fans%20of%20the%20WNBA.
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Re: OT Caitlin Clark's WNBA rookie contract breakdown released 

Post#163 » by D.Brasco » Wed Apr 17, 2024 4:25 pm

docholliday99 wrote:
KembaWalker wrote:The NBA has this power over incoming rookies because it’s an institution and in the post MJ era it’s bigger than any singular player, even the biggest stars. The WNBA is not that. If Caitlin really wanted to, she could hold out, and she would win, rather easily and quickly.

No one woman should be burdened with the singular weight of carrying and building an entire league for 70,000 a year. This is more than has ever been asked of any basketball player. This is less than half of what George Mikan was making in 1948 inflation adjusted. Give her what she’s worth to the league


This is not how business works. The reality is the League has no idea what she's worth to the business model, she hasn't played a minute yet and because of that, how does one actually derive a commiserate pay scale

The reality is, not many people watch the WNBA and because of that, the league has lost money every year since inception. Will Caitlin change that? Probably initially and then it will fall back to the mean. The other big issue the WNBA has is merchandising. Since men predominately make-up the fanbase of both the NBA and the WNBA, how do you appeal to the male gender with merchandising? For example, men and women will wear NBA Jersey's and women will wear WNBA jerseys but since the predominate gender base is male, how many males will wear a Caitlin Clark jersey? Or shoes endorsed?



What rates have they set for advertisers for her broadcast games compared to any past WNBA games? Just from that they will know exactly what extra dollars she is bringing in.
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Re: OT Caitlin Clark's WNBA rookie contract breakdown released 

Post#164 » by docholliday99 » Wed Apr 17, 2024 4:36 pm

D.Brasco wrote:
docholliday99 wrote:
KembaWalker wrote:The NBA has this power over incoming rookies because it’s an institution and in the post MJ era it’s bigger than any singular player, even the biggest stars. The WNBA is not that. If Caitlin really wanted to, she could hold out, and she would win, rather easily and quickly.

No one woman should be burdened with the singular weight of carrying and building an entire league for 70,000 a year. This is more than has ever been asked of any basketball player. This is less than half of what George Mikan was making in 1948 inflation adjusted. Give her what she’s worth to the league


This is not how business works. The reality is the League has no idea what she's worth to the business model, she hasn't played a minute yet and because of that, how does one actually derive a commiserate pay scale

The reality is, not many people watch the WNBA and because of that, the league has lost money every year since inception. Will Caitlin change that? Probably initially and then it will fall back to the mean. The other big issue the WNBA has is merchandising. Since men predominately make-up the fanbase of both the NBA and the WNBA, how do you appeal to the male gender with merchandising? For example, men and women will wear NBA Jersey's and women will wear WNBA jerseys but since the predominate gender base is male, how many males will wear a Caitlin Clark jersey? Or shoes endorsed?



What rates have they set for advertisers for her broadcast games compared to any past WNBA games? Just from that they will know exactly what extra dollars she is bringing in.


Rates have not been set yet though the League was looking to increase their media deals from 60m annually to 80-100m - though that was before Caitlin and the rest of the stacked 2024 class ripped through March Madness. I believe now they are looking to try and double their current rate to 120m - which will set the next 3-5 years. Will that change the league's pay scale this season? Probably not, as the League will first need to see a profit before it trickles down to the players - something which has not occurred for the league since Stern created it back in 1997.
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Re: OT Caitlin Clark's WNBA rookie contract breakdown released 

Post#165 » by LegenW84ITBOBBY » Wed Apr 17, 2024 4:39 pm

i would have taken Barstool's Rec League 10mil offer
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Re: OT Caitlin Clark's WNBA rookie contract breakdown released 

Post#166 » by D.Brasco » Wed Apr 17, 2024 4:46 pm

docholliday99 wrote:
D.Brasco wrote:
docholliday99 wrote:
This is not how business works. The reality is the League has no idea what she's worth to the business model, she hasn't played a minute yet and because of that, how does one actually derive a commiserate pay scale

The reality is, not many people watch the WNBA and because of that, the league has lost money every year since inception. Will Caitlin change that? Probably initially and then it will fall back to the mean. The other big issue the WNBA has is merchandising. Since men predominately make-up the fanbase of both the NBA and the WNBA, how do you appeal to the male gender with merchandising? For example, men and women will wear NBA Jersey's and women will wear WNBA jerseys but since the predominate gender base is male, how many males will wear a Caitlin Clark jersey? Or shoes endorsed?



What rates have they set for advertisers for her broadcast games compared to any past WNBA games? Just from that they will know exactly what extra dollars she is bringing in.


Rates have not been set yet though the League was looking to increase their media deals from 60m annually to 80-100m - though that was before Caitlin and the rest of the stacked 2024 class ripped through March Madness. I believe now they are looking to try and double their current rate to 120m - which will set the next 3-5 years. Will that change the league's pay scale this season? Probably not, as the League will first need to see a profit before it trickles down to the players - something which has not occurred for the league since Stern created it back in 1997.


You're likely right and it's probably the TV networks that will be raising the ad rates for the individual games they will broadcast of hers, so they will be taking the profits more so than the league.

I still think if she were less selfless, she'd have found a way to hold out and strike a deal with either the league or the broadcasters to somehow get a slice of the pie her brand is bringing. She's white hot now, sadly we don't know if that will still be the case in 3-4 years when she renegotiates her contract.
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Re: OT Caitlin Clark's WNBA rookie contract breakdown released 

Post#167 » by benson13 » Wed Apr 17, 2024 6:16 pm

JustBuzzin wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:She'll simply have to build that league up like Wilt, Magic & Bird, Jordan, LeBron & Steph have done the NBA.

If Candace Parker couldn't build up the league what makes you think Clark will? Mind you Parker won MVP as a rookie.

She was great in college, but I doubt she will a be a big thing a few years from now.


I don't follow this logic. Candace Parker could dunk, but not in an impressive fashion. Her game wasn't particularly pleasing aesthetically either.

Caitlin Clark is fun to watch. She has a good handle and doesn't use that weird catapult launch jumpshot that WNBA players still use too frequently. She appears to be playing actual basketball. She might get a deal with Nike/Jordan. Even if the WNBA doesn't take off, she's going to continue to be popular for a while, and girls will buy shoes and clothes attached to her name.
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Re: OT Caitlin Clark's WNBA rookie contract breakdown released 

Post#168 » by slick_watts » Wed Apr 17, 2024 6:24 pm

i'm not sure how it could work logistically but i think the wnba would be better off if the seasons went concurrently with the nba season. maybe even get some of the nba drama intertwined with the wnba. having it completely segmented off makes it seem like a bush league. most basketball fans are basketball'ed out during the offseason.
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Re: OT Caitlin Clark's WNBA rookie contract breakdown released 

Post#169 » by wojoaderge » Wed Apr 17, 2024 6:33 pm

I don't have a strong opinion either way, but checking it out online the cheapest tickets for the first Fever-Sky game in Chicago are currently $320 (verified resale tickets only), and she's making $2100 a game.
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Re: OT Caitlin Clark's WNBA rookie contract breakdown released 

Post#170 » by Godymas » Wed Apr 17, 2024 7:02 pm

Caitlin Clark makes as much as I did as a new college grad 8 years ago
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Re: OT Caitlin Clark's WNBA rookie contract breakdown released 

Post#171 » by D.Brasco » Wed Apr 17, 2024 7:11 pm

slick_watts wrote:i'm not sure how it could work logistically but i think the wnba would be better off if the seasons went concurrently with the nba season. maybe even get some of the nba drama intertwined with the wnba. having it completely segmented off makes it seem like a bush league. most basketball fans are basketball'ed out during the offseason.


The co-main event in the UFCs biggest PPV of the year was a fight between two women. Female MMA fighters tend to get a fair share of fans because they share the exact same platform as the men. A WUFC would have never taken off.

If they immediately followed an NBA game on TNT with a WNBA game, they'd get better ratings than a WNBA game broadcast on its own in July.

The WNBA was almost set up to fail based on that.
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Re: OT Caitlin Clark's WNBA rookie contract breakdown released 

Post#172 » by JustBuzzin » Wed Apr 17, 2024 7:21 pm

benson13 wrote:
JustBuzzin wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:She'll simply have to build that league up like Wilt, Magic & Bird, Jordan, LeBron & Steph have done the NBA.

If Candace Parker couldn't build up the league what makes you think Clark will? Mind you Parker won MVP as a rookie.

She was great in college, but I doubt she will a be a big thing a few years from now.


I don't follow this logic. Candace Parker could dunk, but not in an impressive fashion. Her game wasn't particularly pleasing aesthetically either.

Caitlin Clark is fun to watch. She has a good handle and doesn't use that weird catapult launch jumpshot that WNBA players still use too frequently. She appears to be playing actual basketball. She might get a deal with Nike/Jordan. Even if the WNBA doesn't take off, she's going to continue to be popular for a while, and girls will buy shoes and clothes attached to her name.

I can't take this comment seriously when Parker is arguably the most unique player to ever play in the WNBA. So you telling me a point/forward who could also dunk was not pleasing aesthetically?


Parker was basically the Magic Johnson of the WNBA.
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Re: OT Caitlin Clark's WNBA rookie contract breakdown released 

Post#173 » by Harry Garris » Wed Apr 17, 2024 7:37 pm

D.Brasco wrote:
Harry Garris wrote:
KembaWalker wrote:
Yeah obviously, and these systems weren’t designed to handle one singular player coming in and being worth more to the league than every other player combined x10. It was stupid and not defensible when MJ was making 3 mil or a year or whatever and it’s even more ridiculous with Caitlin.

Standing behind collective bargaining is dumb pandering to bureaucracy. Caitlin didn’t get to collectively bargain anything, she’s coming into a system where she specifically and she alone is getting taken massive advantage of to a degree we haven’t seen in sports probably ever.

It’s a problem, just saying “well that’s just the way we do things, this shouldn’t have to be said” is a pretty lame place to stand but you do you


Caitlin joining the WNBA will over the course of her career raise the value of the league significantly and throughout her next couple of contracts she'll see not only her own contract increase as the WNBA's revenue increases, but the salary of every other player, coach, and WNBA employee as well. There's no doubt that she's sacrificing some money up front by playing in the WNBA instead of being a mercenary and going to the highest bidder, but the outcome is going to be that everyone benefits in the end. It's bigger than herself.

I get your mindset to some degree, and there are people who are just in it to maximize their own personal value and brand as much as possible, but might I suggest that if everyone in society lived like that it would be a terrible world to live in.


Why does she have to be the martyr for this to make up for the WNBAs faults for continually underperforming as a business? What you're saying is possibly true but it's probable it'll be the generation of WNBA players after her that gets to experience those benefits.

I just see so many people saying she's doing this for the greater cause of women's basketball. If so, the WNBA should cut her a percentage of any increased ad earnings they obviously will get by showing her nationally broadcast games.

I just can't imagine working for any company that will tell me they are underpaying me but to stick it out because it'll be for the greater good.


Every employee is worth more to their employer than the paycheck they receive. This is how industry functions.

So where's the injustice here exactly? Just the disparity between Caitlin's perceived "worth" to the WNBA and her salary? Personally I do not think this is worth your time. After all there are far more unjust and unfair wealth disparities in the world you could be getting upset about.

If an employee getting paid less than their "true worth" is not unjust in principle (and it isn't - businesses could not exist if this was the case) then you're going to have a hard time convincing me that it's perfectly acceptable for employees to get paid less than their "true worth" 99.99999% of the time, but it's actually unjust and unfair in this one specific case and the justification is... just because she's famous and really talented, I guess? It's an irrational argument.
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Re: OT Caitlin Clark's WNBA rookie contract breakdown released 

Post#174 » by DOT » Wed Apr 17, 2024 8:09 pm

Every player on a rookie contract is underpaid

That's the point of rookie contracts

Well, maybe not every player, but you get the point

If this is the parallel to Magic/Bird where she supercharges the sport's popularity, it seems likely that it won't be her that benefits, but the women who come into the league 10, 15 years from now. Which just is what it is. Well, it won't be just them, the people who will benefit the most will be the owners because they do none of the work yet will get most of the profit, but that's capitalism for you.
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Re: OT Caitlin Clark's WNBA rookie contract breakdown released 

Post#175 » by BeatDaCavs420 » Wed Apr 17, 2024 8:12 pm

ChipotleWest wrote:Man if I were her I would have gone to the Big 3 for 5 million.

Did she ever address this? She honestly should've took that offer and ran!
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Re: OT Caitlin Clark's WNBA rookie contract breakdown released 

Post#176 » by Doctor MJ » Wed Apr 17, 2024 8:15 pm

slick_watts wrote:i'm not sure how it could work logistically but i think the wnba would be better off if the seasons went concurrently with the nba season. maybe even get some of the nba drama intertwined with the wnba. having it completely segmented off makes it seem like a bush league. most basketball fans are basketball'ed out during the offseason.


Ah, but the primary goal of the NBA isn't to make the WNBA as successful as possible, it's to:

1. Control women's pro basketball.
2. Occupy arenas during the off-season.

So much of the talk about the WNBA losing money is misguided because people think the NBA is focused first and foremost on instantaneous profit, when it hasn't eve been so.

Now, the NBA is certainly trying to grow the WNBA over time to something bigger and bigger, and this has been a struggle in the wake of their misfire at the start of the WNBA - based on the American basketball assumption that the best players in the world were starring on the women's USA Gold Medal team. The NBA made the mistake because Team USA made the mistake, and Team USA made the mistake because they thought that beating all other nations in the world meant they were running things correctly, when it really just meant they had such an overwhelming talent advantage that even backward strategy and poor team selection didn't stop them from earning Golds in most tournaments.

I shouldn't imply that a better understanding would have necessarily made everything take off with the arrival of the WNBA because the reality is that it's a challenge to start a league on the back of a player already in her mid-30s, but if they had understood that old Cynthia Cooper was better than Lisa Leslie or Sheryl Swoopes could ever be, they wouldn't have tried to hype Leslie & Swoopes while ignoring Cooper at the birth of the WNBA.
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Re: OT Caitlin Clark's WNBA rookie contract breakdown released 

Post#177 » by DOT » Wed Apr 17, 2024 8:15 pm

BeatDaCavs420 wrote:
ChipotleWest wrote:Man if I were her I would have gone to the Big 3 for 5 million.

Did she ever address this? She honestly should've took that offer and ran!

She said they never actually contacted her to make an offer

Meaning it was just PR by Ice Cube.
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Re: OT Caitlin Clark's WNBA rookie contract breakdown released 

Post#178 » by BeatDaCavs420 » Wed Apr 17, 2024 8:16 pm

DOT wrote:
BeatDaCavs420 wrote:
ChipotleWest wrote:Man if I were her I would have gone to the Big 3 for 5 million.

Did she ever address this? She honestly should've took that offer and ran!

She said they never actually contacted her to make an offer

Meaning it was just PR by Ice Cube.

SMH that's messed up
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Re: OT Caitlin Clark's WNBA rookie contract breakdown released 

Post#179 » by JayMKE » Wed Apr 17, 2024 8:18 pm

Maybe she'll be able to buy a nice middle class house in a few years oof

WNBA pay is criminally low, these girls were making more money playing in Russia than they did the WNBA
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Re: OT Caitlin Clark's WNBA rookie contract breakdown released 

Post#180 » by GSWFan1994 » Wed Apr 17, 2024 8:19 pm

docholliday99 wrote:Rates have not been set yet though the League was looking to increase their media deals from 60m annually to 80-100m - though that was before Caitlin and the rest of the stacked 2024 class ripped through March Madness. I believe now they are looking to try and double their current rate to 120m - which will set the next 3-5 years. Will that change the league's pay scale this season? Probably not, as the League will first need to see a profit before it trickles down to the players - something which has not occurred for the league since Stern created it back in 1997.


There was a report yesterday on the Wiretap saying that the league is trying to set the benchmark on negotiations to at least double the previous deal, so increasing it to 160.

I still don't know if they are aiming high, or if they are simply trying to forecast Clark's projected impact on ratings, etc.

Also, it's alarming that the WNBA hasn't yet turned a profit in 30 years, it's a very, very long time which, needless to say, most business in multiple industry/service areas would by then stop being subsidized.

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