Best 4 players over the past 25 years excluding bigs

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Who would you build around? (Top 4 candidates)

Lebron
71
22%
Curry
69
22%
Luka
31
10%
KD
43
13%
Kawhi
24
8%
CP3
7
2%
Nash
11
3%
SGA
6
2%
Kobe
49
15%
Other
8
3%
 
Total votes: 319

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Re: Best 4 players over the past 25 years excluding bigs 

Post#21 » by One_and_Done » Wed Apr 17, 2024 3:29 am

JustBuzzin wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:
JustBuzzin wrote:He won 2 without Shaq.

Cmon bro you just started watching basketball or something you sound cray cray!

He had the best team that year. Kobe was on the title favourites at least 10 times and only had a 50% success rate. If Nash had Kobe's teams he'd have alot of titles too.

Kobe had Amare/Marion/Joe Johnson he would still have 2 titles possibly more.

Are you telling me with a straight face Nash was better than Kobe? :o

Of course Nash was better than Kobe. 2 lots of MVP voters agreed. Kobe's impact is very overrated. From 99-07 he led the Lakers to a 135-137 record in games without Shaq. He's not the floor raiser other top end guys are, and his playoff failures make it clear he's not a big ceiling lifter either.
Warspite wrote:Billups was a horrible scorer who could only score with an open corner 3 or a FT.
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Re: Best 4 players over the past 25 years excluding bigs 

Post#22 » by JustBuzzin » Wed Apr 17, 2024 3:33 am

One_and_Done wrote:
JustBuzzin wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:He had the best team that year. Kobe was on the title favourites at least 10 times and only had a 50% success rate. If Nash had Kobe's teams he'd have alot of titles too.

Kobe had Amare/Marion/Joe Johnson he would still have 2 titles possibly more.

Are you telling me with a straight face Nash was better than Kobe? :o

Of course Nash was better than Kobe.

Image
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Re: Best 4 players over the past 25 years excluding bigs 

Post#23 » by NZB2323 » Wed Apr 17, 2024 3:47 am

Lebron, Curry, Kobe, Luka

Lebron, Curry, and Kobe have all won multiple championships and are top 12 guys.

Luka is the most talented out of the remaining players and I believe he’ll have a great career. KD winning championships with a 73 win team doesn’t impress me, and he’s had some bad playoff moments.

SGA hasn’t done anything in the playoffs.

Nash is a good player, but poor defensively and got outplayed by Mike Bibby in 2004.

Kawhi and CP3 get injured too often.
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Re: Best 4 players over the past 25 years excluding bigs 

Post#24 » by NZB2323 » Wed Apr 17, 2024 4:03 am

One_and_Done wrote:
JustBuzzin wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:He had the best team that year. Kobe was on the title favourites at least 10 times and only had a 50% success rate. If Nash had Kobe's teams he'd have alot of titles too.

Kobe had Amare/Marion/Joe Johnson he would still have 2 titles possibly more.

Are you telling me with a straight face Nash was better than Kobe? :o

Of course Nash was better than Kobe. 2 lots of MVP voters agreed. Kobe's impact is very overrated. From 99-07 he led the Lakers to a 135-137 record in games without Shaq. He's not the floor raiser other top end guys are, and his playoff failures make it clear he's not a big ceiling lifter either.


Pau Gasol has never won a playoff game before he joined Kobe. Kobe didn’t play well in the 2004 finals, but he was better in the playoffs than Nash that year.

Kobe: 25, 5, and 5, 50.6 TS%, 21 PER, 2.9 WS, 5.3 BPM, 1.8 VORP, +5.9 on/off

Nash: 14, 9, and 5, 46 TS%, 15.5 PER, 0.4 WS, 0 BPM, 0.1 VORP, -11.9 on/off

Kobe was a good defensive player and Nash got lit up by Mike Bibby. 24 ppg on 59.5 TS%.

Kobe’s failure just gets talked about more because it was in the NBA finals and Kobe was more famous.

Yeah, and Kobe got to play with Shaq and Gasol, but Nash got to play with Dirk and Amare.
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Re: Best 4 players over the past 25 years excluding bigs 

Post#25 » by One_and_Done » Wed Apr 17, 2024 4:09 am

NZB2323 wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:
JustBuzzin wrote:Kobe had Amare/Marion/Joe Johnson he would still have 2 titles possibly more.

Are you telling me with a straight face Nash was better than Kobe? :o

Of course Nash was better than Kobe. 2 lots of MVP voters agreed. Kobe's impact is very overrated. From 99-07 he led the Lakers to a 135-137 record in games without Shaq. He's not the floor raiser other top end guys are, and his playoff failures make it clear he's not a big ceiling lifter either.


Pau Gasol has never won a playoff game before he joined Kobe. Kobe didn’t play well in the 2004 finals, but he was better in the playoffs than Nash that year.

Kobe: 25, 5, and 5, 50.6 TS%, 21 PER, 2.9 WS, 5.3 BPM, 1.8 VORP, +5.9 on/off

Nash: 14, 9, and 5, 46 TS%, 15.5 PER, 0.4 WS, 0 BPM, 0.1 VORP, -11.9 on/off

Kobe was a good defensive player and Nash got lit up by Mike Bibby. 24 ppg on 59.5 TS%.

Kobe’s failure just gets talked about more because it was in the NBA finals and Kobe was more famous.

Yeah, and Kobe got to play with Shaq and Gasol, but Nash got to play with Dirk and Amare.

It's meaningless to downplay Pau for that. If Kobe had led those Memphis teams I doubt they win a game either. Heck, it's debatable if they'd even make the playoffs those 3 years. The west was tough, and Memphis was hurt by the broken seeding system.

Nash was misused before he went to Phoenix.
Warspite wrote:Billups was a horrible scorer who could only score with an open corner 3 or a FT.
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Re: Best 4 players over the past 25 years excluding bigs 

Post#26 » by NZB2323 » Wed Apr 17, 2024 4:16 am

One_and_Done wrote:
NZB2323 wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:Of course Nash was better than Kobe. 2 lots of MVP voters agreed. Kobe's impact is very overrated. From 99-07 he led the Lakers to a 135-137 record in games without Shaq. He's not the floor raiser other top end guys are, and his playoff failures make it clear he's not a big ceiling lifter either.


Pau Gasol has never won a playoff game before he joined Kobe. Kobe didn’t play well in the 2004 finals, but he was better in the playoffs than Nash that year.

Kobe: 25, 5, and 5, 50.6 TS%, 21 PER, 2.9 WS, 5.3 BPM, 1.8 VORP, +5.9 on/off

Nash: 14, 9, and 5, 46 TS%, 15.5 PER, 0.4 WS, 0 BPM, 0.1 VORP, -11.9 on/off

Kobe was a good defensive player and Nash got lit up by Mike Bibby. 24 ppg on 59.5 TS%.

Kobe’s failure just gets talked about more because it was in the NBA finals and Kobe was more famous.

Yeah, and Kobe got to play with Shaq and Gasol, but Nash got to play with Dirk and Amare.

It's meaningless to downplay Pau for that. If Kobe had led those Memphis teams I doubt they win a game either. Heck, it's debatable if they'd even make the playoffs those 3 years. The west was tough, and Memphis was hurt by the broken seeding system.

Nash was misused before he went to Phoenix.


You give Kobe slack for not winning on the Lakers without Shaq, but then give Pau a pass for not winning on the Grizzlies.

Nash’s career with the Mavs counts just like his career with the Suns counts. He also went on a stricter diet when he went to Phoenix. To say he’d be like MVP Nash entering the league today is too speculative.

And was he being misused while he was being torched by Bibby?
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Re: Best 4 players over the past 25 years excluding bigs 

Post#27 » by CIN-C-STAR » Wed Apr 17, 2024 4:25 am

One_and_Done wrote:
CIN-C-STAR wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:Cos SGA is better. To be fair though, I was pretty torn on including Kobe over Wade or Harden. Personally I'd build over both the latter. That's what the other option is for though. Jimmy Butler was another tough exclusion.


Over the past 25 years, SGA is better than D Wade??
Shai has had like 2 notable seasons, whereas Wade won 3 titles. Wade's career value >>> Shai's career value to date, and it's not even close.
If you're just going for peak, then put D Rose on there too.

Also, if Giannis is a big, so are KD & Lebron.

Read the OP.


Did.
Twice.
By your own criteria your list is terrible.
"I'd rather have Kevin Love spacing out to the three point line than anything (Karl) Malone brings"
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Best 4 players over the past 25 years excluding bigs 

Post#28 » by One_and_Done » Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:33 am

NZB2323 wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:
NZB2323 wrote:
Pau Gasol has never won a playoff game before he joined Kobe. Kobe didn’t play well in the 2004 finals, but he was better in the playoffs than Nash that year.

Kobe: 25, 5, and 5, 50.6 TS%, 21 PER, 2.9 WS, 5.3 BPM, 1.8 VORP, +5.9 on/off

Nash: 14, 9, and 5, 46 TS%, 15.5 PER, 0.4 WS, 0 BPM, 0.1 VORP, -11.9 on/off

Kobe was a good defensive player and Nash got lit up by Mike Bibby. 24 ppg on 59.5 TS%.

Kobe’s failure just gets talked about more because it was in the NBA finals and Kobe was more famous.

Yeah, and Kobe got to play with Shaq and Gasol, but Nash got to play with Dirk and Amare.

It's meaningless to downplay Pau for that. If Kobe had led those Memphis teams I doubt they win a game either. Heck, it's debatable if they'd even make the playoffs those 3 years. The west was tough, and Memphis was hurt by the broken seeding system.

Nash was misused before he went to Phoenix.


You give Kobe slack for not winning on the Lakers without Shaq, but then give Pau a pass for not winning on the Grizzlies.

Nash’s career with the Mavs counts just like his career with the Suns counts. He also went on a stricter diet when he went to Phoenix. To say he’d be like MVP Nash entering the league today is too speculative.

And was he being misused while he was being torched by Bibby?

Kobe had them playing sub-500 ball minus Shaq. Pau had thrm in the playoffs from 04-06. Also are we comparing Kobe to Pau, or Kobe to these other stars? Kobe should be doing better than Pau at floor raising, because he's supposed to be the superior player. That he fails to distinguish himself from Pau is what's alarming.

If you want to ding Nash for longevity, because he was misused, you could do that. It depends on your criteria. What's very clear is that Nash from 05-10 is a vastly more impactful player than any version of Kobe.
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Re: Best 4 players over the past 25 years excluding bigs 

Post#29 » by ForeverTFC » Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:37 am

LeBron, KD and Curry are locks.

The fourth spot has to go to either Kawhi or Luka.
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Re: Best 4 players over the past 25 years excluding bigs 

Post#30 » by deneem4 » Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:39 am

deneem4 wrote:Kobe
Lebron
Curry
Kd

In championship order

My bad kwahi over kd
Pay your beals....or its lights out!!!
Bron, Bosh, Wade is like Mike, Hakeem, barkley...3 top 5 picks from same draft
mike, hakeem and Barkley on the same team!!!!
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Re: Best 4 players over the past 25 years excluding bigs 

Post#31 » by deneem4 » Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:40 am

ForeverTFC wrote:LeBron, KD and Curry are locks.

The fourth spot has to go to either Kawhi or Luka.

Over Kobe Bryant?
Pay your beals....or its lights out!!!
Bron, Bosh, Wade is like Mike, Hakeem, barkley...3 top 5 picks from same draft
mike, hakeem and Barkley on the same team!!!!
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Re: Best 4 players over the past 25 years excluding bigs 

Post#32 » by ForeverTFC » Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:45 am

deneem4 wrote:
ForeverTFC wrote:LeBron, KD and Curry are locks.

The fourth spot has to go to either Kawhi or Luka.

Over Kobe Bryant?


Yes. No one is objectively picking Kobe over Kawhi if health isn’t an issue. If health is being taken into consideration, Luka offensively is in a different tier than Kobe, making up for the defensive shortcomings. So I don’t see how Kobe has an argument in either scenario.
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Re: Best 4 players over the past 25 years excluding bigs 

Post#33 » by deneem4 » Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:49 am

ForeverTFC wrote:
deneem4 wrote:
ForeverTFC wrote:LeBron, KD and Curry are locks.

The fourth spot has to go to either Kawhi or Luka.

Over Kobe Bryant?


Yes. No one is objectively picking Kobe over Kawhi if health isn’t an issue. If health is being taken into consideration, Luka offensively is in a different tier than Kobe, making up for the defensive shortcomings. So I don’t see how Kobe has an argument in either scenario.


Luka over Kobe?
Kwahi over kobe?
Kobe Bryant?
Pay your beals....or its lights out!!!
Bron, Bosh, Wade is like Mike, Hakeem, barkley...3 top 5 picks from same draft
mike, hakeem and Barkley on the same team!!!!
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Re: Best 4 players over the past 25 years excluding bigs 

Post#34 » by One_and_Done » Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:57 am

deneem4 wrote:
ForeverTFC wrote:
deneem4 wrote: Over Kobe Bryant?


Yes. No one is objectively picking Kobe over Kawhi if health isn’t an issue. If health is being taken into consideration, Luka offensively is in a different tier than Kobe, making up for the defensive shortcomings. So I don’t see how Kobe has an argument in either scenario.


Luka over Kobe?
Kwahi over kobe?
Kobe Bryant?

Kobe is last on this list for me bro. There were people I didn't even list who should debatably go over him (e.g. Wade, Harden, Butler, etc).
Warspite wrote:Billups was a horrible scorer who could only score with an open corner 3 or a FT.
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Re: Best 4 players over the past 25 years excluding bigs 

Post#35 » by deneem4 » Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:59 am

ForeverTFC wrote:LeBron, KD and Curry are locks.

The fourth spot has to go to either Kawhi or Luka.


This gotta be the most (words I can’t say)
Lebron ok
Curry mhmmm
Kd Kwahi and luka over Kobe?

I troll but I quit
Realgm is not serious
Pay your beals....or its lights out!!!
Bron, Bosh, Wade is like Mike, Hakeem, barkley...3 top 5 picks from same draft
mike, hakeem and Barkley on the same team!!!!
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Re: Best 4 players over the past 25 years excluding bigs 

Post#36 » by deneem4 » Wed Apr 17, 2024 6:00 am

One_and_Done wrote:
deneem4 wrote:
ForeverTFC wrote:
Yes. No one is objectively picking Kobe over Kawhi if health isn’t an issue. If health is being taken into consideration, Luka offensively is in a different tier than Kobe, making up for the defensive shortcomings. So I don’t see how Kobe has an argument in either scenario.


Luka over Kobe?
Kwahi over kobe?
Kobe Bryant?

Kobe is last on this list for me bro. There were people I didn't even list who should debatably go over him (e.g. Wade, Harden, Butler, etc).


Who won the most rings in your lifetime bro?
Pay your beals....or its lights out!!!
Bron, Bosh, Wade is like Mike, Hakeem, barkley...3 top 5 picks from same draft
mike, hakeem and Barkley on the same team!!!!
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Re: Best 4 players over the past 25 years excluding bigs 

Post#37 » by One_and_Done » Wed Apr 17, 2024 6:02 am

deneem4 wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:
deneem4 wrote:
Luka over Kobe?
Kwahi over kobe?
Kobe Bryant?

Kobe is last on this list for me bro. There were people I didn't even list who should debatably go over him (e.g. Wade, Harden, Butler, etc).


Who won the most rings in your lifetime bro?

You mean Horry? Or maybe you mean Hondo. Duncan wasn't a coat tail rider for 3 of his, so I guess him.

Back to reality; rings are a team achievement, not how we rate individual players.
Warspite wrote:Billups was a horrible scorer who could only score with an open corner 3 or a FT.
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Re: Best 4 players over the past 25 years excluding bigs 

Post#38 » by deneem4 » Wed Apr 17, 2024 6:08 am

One_and_Done wrote:
deneem4 wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:Kobe is last on this list for me bro. There were people I didn't even list who should debatably go over him (e.g. Wade, Harden, Butler, etc).


Who won the most rings in your lifetime bro?

You mean Horry? Or maybe you mean Hondo. Duncan wasn't a coat tail rider for 3 of his, so I guess him.

Back to reality; rings are a team achievement, not how we rate individual players.


But u got curry over Kobe? Coat tail rider?
Pay your beals....or its lights out!!!
Bron, Bosh, Wade is like Mike, Hakeem, barkley...3 top 5 picks from same draft
mike, hakeem and Barkley on the same team!!!!
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Re: Best 4 players over the past 25 years excluding bigs 

Post#39 » by ForeverTFC » Wed Apr 17, 2024 6:09 am

deneem4 wrote:
ForeverTFC wrote:
deneem4 wrote: Over Kobe Bryant?


Yes. No one is objectively picking Kobe over Kawhi if health isn’t an issue. If health is being taken into consideration, Luka offensively is in a different tier than Kobe, making up for the defensive shortcomings. So I don’t see how Kobe has an argument in either scenario.


Luka over Kobe?
Kwahi over kobe?
Kobe Bryant?


Is this a controversial take? I know Kobe stans come in numbers but I’d presume a decent share of folks without a horse in this race would agree with me.
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Re: Best 4 players over the past 25 years excluding bigs 

Post#40 » by deneem4 » Wed Apr 17, 2024 6:10 am

I gave curry an mhmmm but to put anybody else over Kobe at your age?!????
Pay your beals....or its lights out!!!
Bron, Bosh, Wade is like Mike, Hakeem, barkley...3 top 5 picks from same draft
mike, hakeem and Barkley on the same team!!!!

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