Would SGA + Kawhi have won a championship?

[Cubbies2120]

In a hypothetical situation that took place last year, if Kawhi had been playing like peak Kawhi and fully healthy and SGA had started turning into a superstar ... they still wouldn't win because they'd run into the one-man force known as Jokic. I think the league's about to be in for a rude awakening where the Jokic era will be defined by him going on to win 4 straight as the lone all-star on his team.

[ChipotleWest]

In a hypothetical situation that took place last year, if Kawhi had been playing like peak Kawhi and fully healthy and SGA had started turning into a superstar ... they still wouldn't win because they'd run into the one-man force known as Jokic. I think the league's about to be in for a rude awakening where the Jokic era will be defined by him going on to win 4 straight as the lone all-star on his team.

His team beat two #8 seeds, a #7 seed and a #4 seed get out of here.

[Cubbies2120]

In a hypothetical situation that took place last year, if Kawhi had been playing like peak Kawhi and fully healthy and SGA had started turning into a superstar ... they still wouldn't win because they'd run into the one-man force known as Jokic. I think the league's about to be in for a rude awakening where the Jokic era will be defined by him going on to win 4 straight as the lone all-star on his team.

His team beat two #8 seeds, a #7 seed and a #4 seed get out of here.

Let me rephrase it for you since you're so triggered and unhinged

He took out LeBron (GOAT) + AD, KD + Booker, baby MJ + Gobert + KAT, and HIMMY Butler!

[ejftw]

It’s five years later and Kawhi is now 33 and declining and who knows how healthy he’ll ever be in a playoff run, and Shai still hasn’t done anything in a playoff run.

It’s really easy to imagine them never winning anything.

I remember thinking it at the time, the big confusion was why they had to include Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, given the massive pick haul. Always felt like the pick package (maybe add more swaps) should have been enough for an expiring Paul George. Sam Presti leveraged Kawhi Leonard's free-agency against the Los Angeles Clippers in a pretty unbelievable way.

Regardless, Kawhi's injuries definitely make it hard to see the Los Angeles Clippers winning in any season.

Paul George wasn’t expiring he had just resigned with the Thunder. The deal was fair and everyone still rides that decision out. No one expected this much injury from those two.

The deal, if it were a standalone, would be quite the overpay.

Which is how most people seem to continue to view it as. Realistically, it was for both Kawhi and PG, based off everything we know

[CodeBreaker]

In a hypothetical situation that took place last year, if Kawhi had been playing like peak Kawhi and fully healthy and SGA had started turning into a superstar ... they still wouldn't win because they'd run into the one-man force known as Jokic. I think the league's about to be in for a rude awakening where the Jokic era will be defined by him going on to win 4 straight as the lone all-star on his team.

His team beat two #8 seeds, a #7 seed and a #4 seed get out of here.

Let me rephrase it for you since you're so triggered and unhinged

He took out LeBron (GOAT) + AD, KD + Booker, baby MJ + Gobert + KAT, and HIMMY Butler!

"baby MJ"

[OkcSinceSGA]

Good thread.

[Gatorade Sax]

People have already hit the nail on the head regarding Kawhi being extremely unreliable injury wise. There’s also a reasonable chance SGA doesn’t become the player he is today without being traded and given the keys to OKC.

That being said, he’s definitely better than PG..even pre injury Indiana PG (who I was a big fan of).

[dirkdiggler4177]

It’s five years later and Kawhi is now 33 and declining and who knows how healthy he’ll ever be in a playoff run, and Shai still hasn’t done anything in a playoff run.

It’s really easy to imagine them never winning anything.

I remember thinking it at the time, the big confusion was why they had to include Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, given the massive pick haul. Always felt like the pick package (maybe add more swaps) should have been enough for Paul George. Sam Presti leveraged Kawhi Leonard's free-agency against the Los Angeles Clippers in a pretty unbelievable way.

Regardless, Kawhi's injuries definitely make it hard to see the Los Angeles Clippers winning in any season.

Well, picks are kinda "worthless" when the team is becoming very good long term. At the same time, that team will do everything in their power to stay strong because they don't have their picks. It's like the Rockets. People don't understand that they signed a bunch of players this offseason because they don't have their pick in this year's draft.

[greekman]

In a hypothetical situation that took place last year, if Kawhi had been playing like peak Kawhi and fully healthy and SGA had started turning into a superstar ... they still wouldn't win because they'd run into the one-man force known as Jokic. I think the league's about to be in for a rude awakening where the Jokic era will be defined by him going on to win 4 straight as the lone all-star on his team.

1 man force ? jokic has never made it past the 1st round without murray. he was arguably the better player in at least 1 of the series postseason every year.

[Lalouie]

the biggest issue with kawhi NOT winning another ring has been his health, not whether not having sga would have made a diff

[ChipotleWest]

In a hypothetical situation that took place last year, if Kawhi had been playing like peak Kawhi and fully healthy and SGA had started turning into a superstar ... they still wouldn't win because they'd run into the one-man force known as Jokic. I think the league's about to be in for a rude awakening where the Jokic era will be defined by him going on to win 4 straight as the lone all-star on his team.

I had forgotten Jokic won the last 5 titles.

[hardenASG13]

In a hypothetical situation that took place last year, if Kawhi had been playing like peak Kawhi and fully healthy and SGA had started turning into a superstar ... they still wouldn't win because they'd run into the one-man force known as Jokic. I think the league's about to be in for a rude awakening where the Jokic era will be defined by him going on to win 4 straight as the lone all-star on his team.

His team beat two #8 seeds, a #7 seed and a #4 seed get out of here.

Let me rephrase it for you since you're so triggered and unhinged

He took out LeBron (GOAT) + AD, KD + Booker, baby MJ + Gobert + KAT, and HIMMY Butler!

We all know the names.....the thing is, none of their teams were any good, and KD/Lebron/Butler are past their prime.

As for the question. No, Kawhi has been hurt every playoffs since the bubble. He sure does get a lot of credit for winning titles with the spurs (not as their best player) and making it out of the east one season and beating a badly injured warriors team, who any neutral fan knows wouldve easily beat Toronto that year. He won a title in a year where the best team clearly didn't win, and is hailed as some mythical playoff god.

[ChipotleWest]

His team beat two #8 seeds, a #7 seed and a #4 seed get out of here.

Let me rephrase it for you since you're so triggered and unhinged

He took out LeBron (GOAT) + AD, KD + Booker, baby MJ + Gobert + KAT, and HIMMY Butler!

We all know the names.....the thing is, none of their teams were any good, and KD/Lebron/Butler are past their prime.

As for the question. No, Kawhi has been hurt every playoffs since the bubble. He sure does get a lot of credit for winning titles with the spurs (not as their best player) and making it out of the east one season and beating a badly injured warriors team, who any neutral fan knows wouldve easily beat Toronto that year. He won a title in a year where the best team clearly didn't win, and is hailed as some mythical playoff god.

You're kind of right about that however I think in 2021 if Kawhi stayed healthy they beat the Suns in the WCF we're talking about Booker and CP3 not exactly Michael Jordan and then you had Bucks and Suns it was like who will choke the least? Excellent chance Clippers could have beaten Giannis too and won the championship.

[durden_tyler]

Is Kawhi injured in the second round or first round in this theoretical pairing?

[ChiTownHero1992]

I always thought it was a bad idea to trade SGA, never knew he'd be this good to be honest but thought he'd be borderline-all-star most years. Especially after the year he had with LAC, but then they traded him and took on another aging/injured "star" in George to pair with their aging/injured "star" Leonard.

I have always wondered if LAC kept SGA with Zubac and began to build from there, my thought is they'd be better than they are now and likely better than what the Thunder currently is.

[Kordic27]

No, because they never would have played together. Part of the deal when they signed Kawhi is he could pick a player they'd trade for and he picked George, so Kawhi never signs with them if the George deal isn't made.

So if the Clips shouldn't have made the trade, who knows where they would be...they might be really good now with SGA and some more good picks.

The more interesting question is if Kawhi signed with the Lakers, how would they be?

However, Kawhi has gotten injured like 3 postseasons so even if the SGA/Kawhi WAS relevant, they probably wouldn't win due to that...it isn't the George trade that has killed them...it's Kawhi's injuries (and they kind of blew that Nuggets series in the bubble). Of course Kawhi probably has the injuries with the Lakers too...but maybe not the same time as AD who also got injured at times.

Is that confirmed? That Kawhi got to choose a player? Because I always felt like Kawhi was going to LA no matter what, and that he didn't want to go to the Lebron Lakers. So if the Clippers were willing to hold fast, they could've got him without trading everything for George.

[bwgood77]

No, because they never would have played together. Part of the deal when they signed Kawhi is he could pick a player they'd trade for and he picked George, so Kawhi never signs with them if the George deal isn't made.

So if the Clips shouldn't have made the trade, who knows where they would be...they might be really good now with SGA and some more good picks.

The more interesting question is if Kawhi signed with the Lakers, how would they be?

However, Kawhi has gotten injured like 3 postseasons so even if the SGA/Kawhi WAS relevant, they probably wouldn't win due to that...it isn't the George trade that has killed them...it's Kawhi's injuries (and they kind of blew that Nuggets series in the bubble). Of course Kawhi probably has the injuries with the Lakers too...but maybe not the same time as AD who also got injured at times.

Is that confirmed? That Kawhi got to choose a player? Because I always felt like Kawhi was going to LA no matter what, and that he didn't want to go to the Lebron Lakers. So if the Clippers were willing to hold fast, they could've got him without trading everything for George.

They may have been able to get him, but no one knows. That was part of their pitch....though they regretted allowing him to just pick anyone later and wished they would have maybe had a specific list of players. They needed to sell him on being part of a really competitive experienced team and not an addition to a young team.

I read all about it at the time. I kind of felt he wouldn't want to play with LeBron and would want his own team, but also would want to play with another all star caliber player (at the time).

[Lockdown504090]

They wouldn’t win because of Leonard’s injuries

[kodo]

Kawhi never would have signed w/ the Clippers without Paul George promised, so he'd be on another team. This is why Ballmer threw such a massive package at OKC for PG13, he considered it getting both Kawhi & PG13.

“He said, ‘I want to play for you,’ and he pointed at me. He said, ‘Mr. Ballmer, I love the things you do and what you stand for, but your team is not good enough and if you don’t change your team, I’m not coming.’”

“We showed him everybody else and he didn’t want to hear it. He just stayed on Paul George, so after the meeting we sat down and I said, ‘We got to get Paul George. I don’t know how we are going to do it, but we have to do it.’
- Doc Rivers

[ryguy613]

No. The Paul George trade not panning out hasn't been the reason the Clippers haven't won a title, it's been about Kawhi's injuries.

we dont know that's the case. while kawhi's injuries obviously closed the door on the potential for them to win a title up to this point, we dont have overwhelming evidence that with a healthy Kawhi, a title was the likeliest outcome. The clippers have been stacked literally every year of the Kawhi/PG era, with big yearly additions that were supposed to stem the tide... yet in their entire iteration, this team has been the 1 seed exactly zero times, through seasons where the team was relatively healthy, and seasons where they werent. at some point we do have to say that this team has underachieved, regardless of injuries.