If you were the Raptors would you even want to keep this years pick?

[FarBeyondDriven]

of course. if they get this year's pick it'll be much higher than the pick they'll likely get in 2025. Forget the laughable narrative that this is a weak draft class (it isn't) for a second and think about what is likely to happen in 2025. They'll have more cohesion, better health, a full off-season to make moves (draft, FA, trades) and the odds of them being in the lottery next year let alone near the top are nil unless they tank but that's not likely. Even if we pretended the "experts" aren't wrong about this draft class like they're wrong about everything, and accept that there's no franchise changing talent in this year's draft, the Raptors already have a #1 and a few #2 and #3 candidates so they don't necessarily need a franchise player. If the players they want (Sarr or Holland for instance) are off the board, they have the opportunity to trade back or out and accumulate picks/players. Hasn't Masai proven his chops in the draft (minus Dick and a couple other late picks) all these years. You'd think people would trust him more.

[FarBeyondDriven]

Yes. I think you will find 6th-10th will equal late lottery next year, or possibly even later. 1-4 will likely equal mid lottery, weighted by how much closer to 1 it is.

They aren't tanking next year from the jump either way, you should know better than that. They may end up sucking and tank the end, but that's the way it goes.

I wasn't suggesting they'd tank from the start, just that keeping it this year doesn't rule out the possibility of keeping next year too.

I know what's being said generally about this year vs. next year draft, but I'll be surprised if it's that dramatic. There are no Cooper Flaggs this year, and so that part is very different, but claiming the 6th pick is worth something like the 13th pick next year is one hell of an indictment on this class (or perhaps a testament to the depth next year). We'll see.

I also think there's added value in getting someone in the door now vs. next year given our core young players are either into their second contracts already or are about to sign their extention.

This draft isn't good at the top. That's fact. You are going to have minimum 3-4 picks next year better than anyone in this draft from a scouting perspective. Its the double covid cohort year (they pushed back anyone 2020) so you have more seniors that can declare. It looks like in 2024, the middle lottery to past the lottery okay and a bit of a crap shoot with players of more similar quality than usual but some talent there. I don't see how the 2025 lottery is worse at the top and it should be deeper and not as flat as picks decline.

As for talent now, you will notice my first choice right?

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/?year-mock=2013

https://www.nbadraft.net/actual-draft/?year-mock=2013

https://www.nbadraft.net/actual-draft/?year-mock=2014

Just for comparison.

no, it's literally NOT a fact. It's a subjective opinion. An opinion held by "experts" and those that regurgitate them that get it wrong literally every single year. The only thing this class lacks is the consensus wow guy at the top like Webmanyama, Zion, KD, AD, etc. But most drafts lack that and that absence doesn't make it historically weak.

[Vampirate]

If it's a top 4 pick you have to take it (odds are Raptors either jump into top 4 or lose the pick).....you don't just pass on that even in a weak draft.

The thread is about whether you want to convey #7.

It really doesn't matter to us if we conveyed the pick at #7 or #12, the same fact is we lose the pick.

It matters to the Spurs more than us.

What matters is if we keep the pick or not, now if we do keep the pick being a 32 pick vs the #6 pick matters to us, and in this instance it doesn't matter to the Spurs because they don't get the pick this year.

[Johnny Bball]

I wasn't suggesting they'd tank from the start, just that keeping it this year doesn't rule out the possibility of keeping next year too.

I know what's being said generally about this year vs. next year draft, but I'll be surprised if it's that dramatic. There are no Cooper Flaggs this year, and so that part is very different, but claiming the 6th pick is worth something like the 13th pick next year is one hell of an indictment on this class (or perhaps a testament to the depth next year). We'll see.

I also think there's added value in getting someone in the door now vs. next year given our core young players are either into their second contracts already or are about to sign their extention.

This draft isn't good at the top. That's fact. You are going to have minimum 3-4 picks next year better than anyone in this draft from a scouting perspective. Its the double covid cohort year (they pushed back anyone 2020) so you have more seniors that can declare. It looks like in 2024, the middle lottery to past the lottery okay and a bit of a crap shoot with players of more similar quality than usual but some talent there. I don't see how the 2025 lottery is worse at the top and it should be deeper and not as flat as picks decline.

As for talent now, you will notice my first choice right?

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/?year-mock=2013

https://www.nbadraft.net/actual-draft/?year-mock=2013

https://www.nbadraft.net/actual-draft/?year-mock=2014

Just for comparison.

no, it's literally NOT a fact. It's a subjective opinion. An opinion held by "experts" and those that regurgitate them that get it wrong literally every single year. The only thing this class lacks is the consensus wow guy at the top like Webmanyama, Zion, KD, AD, etc. But most drafts lack that and that absence doesn't make it historically weak.

Nah, it's a fact that the 2025 draft will be better. No matter how petty you want to try and state its not. And the Raptors do in fact need a star player if they win this lottery or in the next few years.

[Tor_Raps]

We suck and need all the young talent we can get as fast as possible. Our front office has proven to be pretty good at drafting so I will assume we will make the right pick.

Assumedly your front office would make an even better pick if they had a more valuable draft pick then.

Ya but who knows what next year will be. Maybe we end up becoming a play-in team or are back in the same position where we can keep our pick again.

I'd rather have the assurance of getting a good pick and hoping our front office can make the most of it. It also gives another reason to hope and watch this team next year.

[Raps in 4]

This draft isn't good at the top. That's fact. You are going to have minimum 3-4 picks next year better than anyone in this draft from a scouting perspective. Its the double covid cohort year (they pushed back anyone 2020) so you have more seniors that can declare. It looks like in 2024, the middle lottery to past the lottery okay and a bit of a crap shoot with players of more similar quality than usual but some talent there. I don't see how the 2025 lottery is worse at the top and it should be deeper and not as flat as picks decline.

As for talent now, you will notice my first choice right?

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/?year-mock=2013

https://www.nbadraft.net/actual-draft/?year-mock=2013

https://www.nbadraft.net/actual-draft/?year-mock=2014

Just for comparison.

no, it's literally NOT a fact. It's a subjective opinion. An opinion held by "experts" and those that regurgitate them that get it wrong literally every single year. The only thing this class lacks is the consensus wow guy at the top like Webmanyama, Zion, KD, AD, etc. But most drafts lack that and that absence doesn't make it historically weak.

Nah, it's a fact that the 2025 draft will be better. No matter how petty you want to try and state its not. And the Raptors do in fact need a star player if they win this lottery or in the next few years.

It's absolutely not a fact, not unless you have a crystal ball. Plenty of drafts predicted to be strong ended up being disappointing (anyone remember the Wiggins and Jabari "sweepstakes"?) and supposedly weak drafts ended up producing great players. There is absolutely no way to reliably predict how a draft will pan out.

[FarBeyondDriven]

This draft isn't good at the top. That's fact. You are going to have minimum 3-4 picks next year better than anyone in this draft from a scouting perspective. Its the double covid cohort year (they pushed back anyone 2020) so you have more seniors that can declare. It looks like in 2024, the middle lottery to past the lottery okay and a bit of a crap shoot with players of more similar quality than usual but some talent there. I don't see how the 2025 lottery is worse at the top and it should be deeper and not as flat as picks decline.

As for talent now, you will notice my first choice right?

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/?year-mock=2013

https://www.nbadraft.net/actual-draft/?year-mock=2013

https://www.nbadraft.net/actual-draft/?year-mock=2014

Just for comparison.

no, it's literally NOT a fact. It's a subjective opinion. An opinion held by "experts" and those that regurgitate them that get it wrong literally every single year. The only thing this class lacks is the consensus wow guy at the top like Webmanyama, Zion, KD, AD, etc. But most drafts lack that and that absence doesn't make it historically weak.

Nah, it's a fact that the 2025 draft will be better. No matter how petty you want to try and state its not. And the Raptors do in fact need a star player if they win this lottery or in the next few years.

someone clearly doesn't know the definition of a fact

[Johnny Bball]

no, it's literally NOT a fact. It's a subjective opinion. An opinion held by "experts" and those that regurgitate them that get it wrong literally every single year. The only thing this class lacks is the consensus wow guy at the top like Webmanyama, Zion, KD, AD, etc. But most drafts lack that and that absence doesn't make it historically weak.

Nah, it's a fact that the 2025 draft will be better. No matter how petty you want to try and state its not. And the Raptors do in fact need a star player if they win this lottery or in the next few years.

It's absolutely not a fact, not unless you have a crystal ball. Plenty of drafts predicted to be strong ended up being disappointing (anyone remember the Wiggins and Jabari "sweepstakes"?) and supposedly weak drafts ended up producing great players. There is absolutely no way to reliably predict how a draft will pan out.

It was only the Raptors board that made you think that the Wiggins draft was a great one.

And what? Weak drafts can surely produce great players at any outlier spot but they aren't churning out 20 NBA players or loaded with can't miss players. I'm not sure people even understand the message when people say its a bad draft year.

You only have to look and see how few teams (none?) traded any 2025 picks this year to see what NBA scouts think of it.

[Los_29]

of course. if they get this year's pick it'll be much higher than the pick they'll likely get in 2025. Forget the laughable narrative that this is a weak draft class (it isn't) for a second and think about what is likely to happen in 2025. They'll have more cohesion, better health, a full off-season to make moves (draft, FA, trades) and the odds of them being in the lottery next year let alone near the top are nil unless they tank but that's not likely. Even if we pretended the "experts" aren't wrong about this draft class like they're wrong about everything, and accept that there's no franchise changing talent in this year's draft, the Raptors already have a #1 and a few #2 and #3 candidates so they don't necessarily need a franchise player. If the players they want (Sarr or Holland for instance) are off the board, they have the opportunity to trade back or out and accumulate picks/players. Hasn't Masai proven his chops in the draft (minus Dick and a couple other late picks) all these years. You'd think people would trust him more.

It’s unanimously regarded as a weak draft class. However, I agree that it’s better to have their pick this year because they are so bad and are in a position to land a really high pick. They have cap space, potentially three picks (in the top 31) in this draft and young players that will likely be better next year. It’s unlikely they are this bad next year.

Gradey actually started off horribly but had a good three months to finish the year. He’s looking like a solid value pick.

[One_and_Done]

Nah, it's a fact that the 2025 draft will be better. No matter how petty you want to try and state its not. And the Raptors do in fact need a star player if they win this lottery or in the next few years.

It's absolutely not a fact, not unless you have a crystal ball. Plenty of drafts predicted to be strong ended up being disappointing (anyone remember the Wiggins and Jabari "sweepstakes"?) and supposedly weak drafts ended up producing great players. There is absolutely no way to reliably predict how a draft will pan out.

It was only the Raptors board that made you think that the Wiggins draft was a great one.

And what? Weak drafts can surely produce great players at any outlier spot but they aren't churning out 20 NBA players or loaded with can't miss players. I'm not sure people even understand the message when people say its a bad draft year.

You only have to look and see how few teams (none?) traded any 2025 picks this year to see what NBA scouts think of it.

Nah. The 2014 draft was objectively seen as a talent rich draft.

[docholliday99]

of course. if they get this year's pick it'll be much higher than the pick they'll likely get in 2025. Forget the laughable narrative that this is a weak draft class (it isn't) for a second and think about what is likely to happen in 2025. They'll have more cohesion, better health, a full off-season to make moves (draft, FA, trades) and the odds of them being in the lottery next year let alone near the top are nil unless they tank but that's not likely. Even if we pretended the "experts" aren't wrong about this draft class like they're wrong about everything, and accept that there's no franchise changing talent in this year's draft, the Raptors already have a #1 and a few #2 and #3 candidates so they don't necessarily need a franchise player. If the players they want (Sarr or Holland for instance) are off the board, they have the opportunity to trade back or out and accumulate picks/players. Hasn't Masai proven his chops in the draft (minus Dick and a couple other late picks) all these years. You'd think people would trust him more.

It’s unanimously regarded as a weak draft class. However, I agree that it’s better to have their pick this year because they are so bad and are in a position to land a really high pick. They have cap space, potentially three picks (in the top 31) in this draft and young players that will likely be better next year. It’s unlikely they are this bad next year.

Gradey actually started off horribly but had a good three months to finish the year. He’s looking like a solid value pick.

Yeah, whatever special program the team had him on at the end of December, into January, definitely had a positive effect on GD. I was a bit worried there.

Definitely agree with the rest, there's lots of gaps that need to be filled and 3 picks plus a boatload of cap space is a good start. That said, not the worst thing to have the pick convey this year, as I can't really get a read on this draft; I'm sure there'll be gems but atm, no one is really standing out and when I read profiles or watch some, I sense more rotation player or possibly a solid starter - which is not really a bad thing but the team does need another star player. Good thing the team already has their centerpiece to build around.

[Saul Goodman]

As a Raps fan I’ll always have a grudge against Masai and Bobby for that Poetl trade. However I think the probability of success is best keeping it this year. Next season you get a full camp of Quickley Barrett Dick who has shown some real starter promise and Barnes who we hope takes a real leap. That combo with Poetl and cap room should presumably be a team in the low playoff of play in mix.

[Los_29]

of course. if they get this year's pick it'll be much higher than the pick they'll likely get in 2025. Forget the laughable narrative that this is a weak draft class (it isn't) for a second and think about what is likely to happen in 2025. They'll have more cohesion, better health, a full off-season to make moves (draft, FA, trades) and the odds of them being in the lottery next year let alone near the top are nil unless they tank but that's not likely. Even if we pretended the "experts" aren't wrong about this draft class like they're wrong about everything, and accept that there's no franchise changing talent in this year's draft, the Raptors already have a #1 and a few #2 and #3 candidates so they don't necessarily need a franchise player. If the players they want (Sarr or Holland for instance) are off the board, they have the opportunity to trade back or out and accumulate picks/players. Hasn't Masai proven his chops in the draft (minus Dick and a couple other late picks) all these years. You'd think people would trust him more.

It’s unanimously regarded as a weak draft class. However, I agree that it’s better to have their pick this year because they are so bad and are in a position to land a really high pick. They have cap space, potentially three picks (in the top 31) in this draft and young players that will likely be better next year. It’s unlikely they are this bad next year.

Gradey actually started off horribly but had a good three months to finish the year. He’s looking like a solid value pick.

Yeah, whatever special program the team had him on at the end of December, into January, definitely had a positive effect on GD. I was a bit worried there.

Definitely agree with the rest, there's lots of gaps that need to be filled and 3 picks plus a boatload of cap space is a good start. That said, not the worst thing to have the pick convey this year, as I can't really get a read on this draft; I'm sure there'll be gems but atm, no one is really standing out and when I read profiles or watch some, I sense more rotation player or possibly a solid starter - which is not really a bad thing but the team does need another star player. Good thing the team already has their centerpiece to build around.

Yeah, the good thing about having the pick convey is that we won’t have that hanging over our heads next year and can move forward with all of our picks.

[ItsDanger]

They need to tank next season to acquire more upside talent.