Jokic's Road to GOATness Happens in 2024

[lambchop]

I'm not sure about him being the GOAT, but imo he's the best player LBJ has ever played against. In theory that puts him at 2nd or 3rd on the GOAT list. However, he just needs more rings and accolades to solidify that status.

[Mephariel]

I think it depends on the context of the conversation. If you’re saying team success shouldn’t weigh heavily when you’re talking about someone’s place amongst the absolute best of the best, I’d disagree.

Nope, we're on the same page there. What I'm saying is that it shouldn't stop the conversation from starting for guys today, because it didn't stop the conversation from starting earlier in league history. People were talking about the potential for Jordan, for example, and Kareem, both well before their resumes lined up. No reason to rule out conversation of Jokic because he doesn't have the full complement of titles yet, you know?

I wouldn't rule him out, but he will have to win several more championships to even be considered in the conversation. Jordan is an iconic basketball player, with skills and athleticism that embodies the ultimate player. Jokic will never be iconic. Whether that is fair or not, it will play into the discussion.

Sure, people are beholden to narrative more than logic, that's known. But not everyone factors popularity into their GOAT discussion, especially here. I don't particularly care, for example, how "iconic" someone was in terms of their ability to compete for that ranking, and I certainly don't think not being iconic should interrupt our ability to discuss someone potentially being on the path to that ranking.

It is not just popularity though. Jordan was a great defender. I don't think Jokic will ever be on that level on defense. Jordan is basically the ultimate basketball player in his generation. He could never be exploited in anyway. Jordan embodies what it means to be a basketball player, and that is why he is iconic.

[moderndarwin]

He’s lucky the only true contemporary he has is an oft injured guy in the East. Jokic is great but there’s just no good center matchups for him. Either people are too small like AD or too slow like Boban. There’s literally no above 7 foot 280 lb guy that can match him for size and strength. the closest i suppose is Nurkic sadly. Playing against someone like Shaq would be a whole different world for him. He looks human against Embiid. Feasting on the ADs of the world is all well and good but a prime Dwight Howard would give him a lot more problems.

[kinggnik87]

He’s lucky the only true contemporary he has is an oft injured guy in the East. Jokic is great but there’s just no good center matchups for him. Either people are too small like AD or too slow like Boban. There’s literally no above 7 foot 280 lb guy that can match him for size and strength. the closest i suppose is Nurkic sadly. Playing against someone like Shaq would be a whole different world for him. He looks human against Embiid. Feasting on the ADs of the world is all well and good but a prime Dwight Howard would give him a lot more problems.

Lucky? That's just a lazy take. Bam Adebayo and Rudy Gobert are definitely the best of the best centers for the pass 20 years. And Jokic plays well against them.

You said he looks human against Embiid who always injured and never play against Jokic in Denver since like what, 2019? 4-5 years ago?

You also mentioned about Shaq and Dwight, those two who can't shoot threes? Yeah, that's "scary". These two can't even adapt fast enough for the current basketball games. Stop with the "if" and admit Jokic is the best player right now, not only as a center, but in the whole league. Hence, his road to GOATness.

[Exp0sed]

He’s lucky the only true contemporary he has is an oft injured guy in the East. Jokic is great but there’s just no good center matchups for him. Either people are too small like AD or too slow like Boban. There’s literally no above 7 foot 280 lb guy that can match him for size and strength. the closest i suppose is Nurkic sadly. Playing against someone like Shaq would be a whole different world for him. He looks human against Embiid. Feasting on the ADs of the world is all well and good but a prime Dwight Howard would give him a lot more problems.

lol, people really making stuff up now

Jokic is 6'11 and I doubt his current weight is 280, probably closer to like 265 now
do u know how many players in the NBA are bigger, taller and longer than him? quite a few lol- why aren't they dominating? haha

Ofc he looks human next to Embiid, Embiid is taller, longer, weighs more and has a wider frame

not gonna go into the whole how would he fare vs. Shaq as it has been discussed ad nauseam. just a reminder that Jokic's I.Q is off the charts, he would also strip Shaq quite a bit and more importantly - Shaq has to guard him in space and beyond the 3 pts line, has to guard the PNR and 2-man game with Murray and has to keep up stamina wise with Jokic running up and down the floor..good luck with that

here's yesterday's dagger, after playing 35+ mins and almot 80 games of rs - Jokic sees that AD lingers back and just goes for it. he'd do that to Shaq after every made basket basically

Watch on YouTube

[AleksandarN]

He’s lucky the only true contemporary he has is an oft injured guy in the East. Jokic is great but there’s just no good center matchups for him. Either people are too small like AD or too slow like Boban. There’s literally no above 7 foot 280 lb guy that can match him for size and strength. the closest i suppose is Nurkic sadly. Playing against someone like Shaq would be a whole different world for him. He looks human against Embiid. Feasting on the ADs of the world is all well and good but a prime Dwight Howard would give him a lot more problems.

Lol I knew you couldn’t resist. Surprised it took you this long.

[bledredwine]

He’s lucky the only true contemporary he has is an oft injured guy in the East. Jokic is great but there’s just no good center matchups for him. Either people are too small like AD or too slow like Boban. There’s literally no above 7 foot 280 lb guy that can match him for size and strength. the closest i suppose is Nurkic sadly. Playing against someone like Shaq would be a whole different world for him. He looks human against Embiid. Feasting on the ADs of the world is all well and good but a prime Dwight Howard would give him a lot more problems.

Lol I knew you couldn’t resist. Surprised it took you this long.

He's not wrong though. There's only one true championship quality (contending) team in the league.
I hope that Boston proves me wrong but these lineups don't compare with many championship squads of the past.

Jokic is still one of the greatest to come around in a long time, but I look forward to him facing future Wembanyama.

[JasonStern]

I would not be that hopeless. There is a chance, although not a big one.

I have a better chance of landing Sydney Sweeney than Serbia does of knocking off the 2024 U.S. team.

I'm sure you're a great guy, and Sydney Sweeney isn't all that, and this US team will be incredibly tough to beat.

That said, I'm gonna bet on Serbia vs you landing Sydney Sweeney, pretty comfortably.

Agree to disagree. I'm good looking, have money, can be charming for stints. Women slum it sometimes - after break ups, around the holidays if they are feeling depressed, etc.

You're saying Jokic and a limited amount of Euro talent would need to take down LeBron, Leonard, Tatum, Embiid, Durant, Curry, Davis, Booker, Edwards, Holiday, Abedayo, and Haliburton. I just don't see it.

But if Jokic manages to knock out Team USA, I promise to at least try to slide into Sydney Sweeney's DMs.

[AleksandarN]

He’s lucky the only true contemporary he has is an oft injured guy in the East. Jokic is great but there’s just no good center matchups for him. Either people are too small like AD or too slow like Boban. There’s literally no above 7 foot 280 lb guy that can match him for size and strength. the closest i suppose is Nurkic sadly. Playing against someone like Shaq would be a whole different world for him. He looks human against Embiid. Feasting on the ADs of the world is all well and good but a prime Dwight Howard would give him a lot more problems.

Lol I knew you couldn’t resist. Surprised it took you this long.

He's not wrong though. There's only one true championship quality (contending) team in the league.
I hope that Boston proves me wrong but these lineups don't compare with many championship squads of the past.

Jokic is still one of the greatest to come around in a long time, but I look forward to him facing future Wembanyama.

Given his posting history you will know why I replied.

[AleksandarN]

Coach I would not go that far. But that is high praise

Read on Twitter

[Optms]

I guess we know which thread to bump when the Nuggets don't even make it out if the West.

[AleksandarN]

I guess we know which thread to bump when the Nuggets don't even make it out if the West.

And we know which thread we will bump when he wins another. Right Optms? You know the one.

[CodeBreaker]

Win a 3-peat and he'd be above Duncan

[DowJones]

I think Jokic can get into the 11-15 range if he wins a title this year but he has a ways to go before he gets into the the Shaq/Duncan range and even that would put him only into the top 9 or 8. Unless Denver does something like 4 straight, I don't think GOAT is even worth considering.

[Exp0sed]

I guess we know which thread to bump when the Nuggets don't even make it out if the West.

it's a team sport..

for instance, I think the Wolves will beat the Nuggets in the semis
ANT is basically a young Wade\MJ, KAT is a top 15 talent, Gobert is a monster and the perennial DPOY, Mike Conley has played over 34,000 career mins and has 0 (!) technical fouls (just throwing it out there) and Jalen Mcdaniels is a 7 ft. elite 3&D player

Clippers with a healthy KL, PG13, Harden, WB, Zubac and co are extremely stacked - it's a team sport

do u think Wilt, Jamal Murray and MPJ would have beaten an 89' MJ + prime Rodman (that's Gobert in the analogy) + prime Amare (that would be Towns,who btw is 19th in all time PER one spot ahead of Curry at #20) + legit role players, size and depth at every position in a 7 game series?

how about Kareem, Murray, MPJ and AG - do they beat my hypotethical team?
idk but i'm sure they'd win some years and lose in others..

not saying that Jokic is Wilt or KAJ btw, just making a general point


edit: btw, last season Joe L the "MVP", failed to make it out of the first rd alongside Harden, Maxey, Harris and some decent role players. where is he in the GOAT talk? how about when he didn't even make the ECF with Butler, Simmons, Harris and Reddick? context matters and the league has quite a bit of parity rn compared the past eras. no1 is 3 peating nowadays, margins are way too small

p.s, heck, an AD + LBJ team would be a finalist in alot of seasons but has barely been a play-in team these past couple of seasons, somehow i'm supposed to believe that Jokic losing a series to another great team means he's Cr*p? nah..

[moderndarwin]

Il say it over and over. Joker can definitely be the best of this era. But he is benefiting greatly from the timely lack of large 7 foot capable men. He either is way too big and strong for the people guarding him or they’re scrubs on offensive side and he can rest. It’s the only position in basketball where this is true. The true test he has is only one - Joel Embiid. And any rationale objective observer wouldn’t say he wins that matchups every time. It’s a toss up.

If he was going against Pat Ewing, David Robinson, Hakeem Olujawon, and Shaq it’d be a very different story for him. He’d still be amazing no doubt and hed put up amazing stats. He just would have other players that at least can go toe to toe with him. He looks so insanely good because right now there is literally only 1 player who is a good matchup for him.

Him having to guard Shaq for example would be an absolute joke.

[MavsDirk41]

Il say it over and over. Joker can definitely be the best of this era. But he is benefiting greatly from the timely lack of large 7 foot capable men. He either is way too big and strong for the people guarding him or they’re scrubs on offensive side and he can rest. It’s the only position in basketball where this is true. The true test he has is only one - Joel Embiid. And any rationale objective observer wouldn’t say he wins that matchups every time. It’s a toss up.

If he was going against Pat Ewing, David Robinson, Hakeem Olujawon, and Shaq it’d be a very different story for him. He’d still be amazing no doubt and hed put up amazing stats. He just would have other players that at least can go toe to toe with him. He looks so insanely good because right now there is literally only 1 player who is a good matchup for him.

Him having to guard Shaq for example would be an absolute joke.

I think Hakeem would give him the most fits honestly

[MavsDirk41]

Coach I would not go that far. But that is high praise

Read on Twitter

Is Karl drunk lol?? Jokic is amazing but come on

[dhsilv2]

Il say it over and over. Joker can definitely be the best of this era. But he is benefiting greatly from the timely lack of large 7 foot capable men. He either is way too big and strong for the people guarding him or they’re scrubs on offensive side and he can rest. It’s the only position in basketball where this is true. The true test he has is only one - Joel Embiid. And any rationale objective observer wouldn’t say he wins that matchups every time. It’s a toss up.

If he was going against Pat Ewing, David Robinson, Hakeem Olujawon, and Shaq it’d be a very different story for him. He’d still be amazing no doubt and hed put up amazing stats. He just would have other players that at least can go toe to toe with him. He looks so insanely good because right now there is literally only 1 player who is a good matchup for him.

Him having to guard Shaq for example would be an absolute joke.

Jokic is exactly the type of player Shaq struggled most against in his prime. And what is this resting on defense? Jokic is inconstant movement on defense. He's got the largest role in the nugget's defensive sets. Going against a big man in the post would allow Jokic more rest time. Not less.

[KembaWalker]

Half the reason the 2000s NBA sucked was because rosters were fielding 3-4 tall bums just to foul and put a body on Shaq. Teams today aren’t doing that, you can see Davis do decently against Jokic but then there’s nobody else on the depth chart to help. You put Bron and Rui on Jokic and it’s free buckets. I feel like roster construction is lagging 5 years behind the state of the league , GMs are building teams to beat the Warriors still