The refs and ref #45 in the Mavs Clippers Game 2

[Dirk]

Let me pre-phrase this by saying that I did not intend to create this topic. I was expecting this to just be a thread reply with a couple of plays in the main series discussion, but as I kept watching 'dubious' calls, they added up and a certain ref stood out, so I figured it would be of interest to get some general feedback on this.

Context: After game 1, I was caught off guard by Clippers fans crying about the refs. All that despite the easy win and Harden's phantom free throws. By "Clips fans", I don't even mean realgm (love you all), I mean a general audience on the interwebs - it was all over twitter, including their beat reporter who fuelled the crying.

So that context made me keep an eye on the refs going in to game 2.

Let me make a couple of notes:

1. As a Mavs fan, I am disappointed by the performance of our main guy. Has not been himself. The team also has underperformed massively. They had a good run and beat some good teams to close out the season... but so far haven't yet looked in sync.

2. Horrible turnovers, terrible wide open misses at the rim, missed free throws, bricked 3 pointers. You name it... an absurd volume of self inflicted wounds. Refs not to blame.

3. As you may suspect, this was being written during the game and I was expecting the L (given that the Mavs weren't sharp, the stuff I'll describe below and expecting the Clips to make a run). This was being written during live play. Submitting now after getting the videos.

4. This topic is not too serious and isn't personal about the Clips. Had the Mavs lost, despite the plays below, I still would feel worse about the team not playing at their best than whatever refs decisions. I am biased. I am not 100% sure it's the same ref at times. But in general, the Mavs absolutely were jobbed in game 2 and the refereeing was not balanced.

Random plays below throughout the game.

If you're bored and have no life like me, watch them and see if you feel the ref or refs were leaning towards one team.

Does anyone know why a foul was called here?

Spoiler:

Clippers didn't score a field goal for 5-6 minutes and refs needed to give them points?

A bit later, another call that is kind of funky:

Can anyone also help me understand if Exum touched Harden at all here?

Spoiler:

And if he did... why doesn't Kyrie get the foul here for a much more obvious contact?

Spoiler:

Derrick Jone clearly fouled by Plumlee here. Again no call....

Spoiler:

It appears Zubac doesn't have to respect «verticality laws», can move, contact sideways or maybe PJ Washington (like DJJr) is just a scrub who doesn't deserve respect.

Spoiler:

But wait, these refs really are calling it tight. Harden cannot be touched...

Spoiler:

They really called this a foul. Gotta keep the foul count ticking I guess.

I was quite puzzled though. Refs don't call fouls on guys like Washington and Jones in actual basketball plays/shot attempts, but then are calling stuff that we can't even comprehend or soft stuff?

You may notice that the same clown ref (#45) who gave away silly fouls to the Clips, doesn't behave the same way here when George makes a move with his elbow and DJJr's head bobs (100% certain that with roles reversed it'd have been a foul). [This was not a foul by the way. I am just tracing a pattern with the ref who made up calls for the Clips earlier]

Spoiler:

In the following play, you can again see contact by Harden on Irving (Irving beats Harden who commits a foul before later striping him) and the same clown ref (#45) doesn't see it. Only sees the kick ball.

Spoiler:

Ref allows contact. Or doesn't. Or maybe just one side. Who knows at this point.

Spoiler:

Again, same clown ref, doesn't see Paul George pushing off Green.

Spoiler:

Zubac just runs over Gafford here. Can anyone explain why this is a foul if above Kawhi didn't foul Gafford?

Spoiler:

And again, ref #45.

Please review this one... and tell if this ref clearly didn't have money in the game? Look at how eager he was to call an off the ball foul... to again give free points to his team. The hilarious bit is that Dallas just had a big plays before, so he had to kill the momentum.

Much beloved James Harden drawing 3 more free throws. And yes, #45.

Spoiler:

In the following play, Luka cries about a foul (don't even care if it was or not, hint: it was)... I just want to highlight that again #45 is staring at it. Doesnt call it and give Luka a technical foul.

I guess Lively is the one called for a foul because his jersey is white here.

Spoiler:

This sequence is amazing... Westbrook is an amazing defender and right after... the Mavs guys aren't. Again, #45. Check out the Mavs guys... they are desperate at this point. They simply suck and guys in black are brilliant defenders.

Spoiler:

Luka asks for a technical foul here. Why does Westbrook get away with this?

You can say Luka is a whiny *make up your own word*, but he is 100% correct. That is a textbook tech not given.

They really were trying until the end.

Spoiler:

P.S: if you were wondering, #45 is Brian Forte - bonus material below, not mine. Harden takes like 20 steps.

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

[Bergmaniac]

Just what this board needs, another thread about the refs...

[Mavrelous]

I thought the most egregious thing was Westbrook pushing PJ hard enough for him to fall, and slaps the ball out of Luka's hands after the whistle, Luka got T'ed for much less.
There certainly was homecooking, but Mavs survived.

[dirkforpres]

The refs were horrible last night, biting on every single James Harden flop like we are back in 2014 again and going with whatever would appease the home crowd.

Only way Mavs won that game yesterday was by shooting lights out from 3, which (thankfully) they did in the 4Q.

[Roscoe Sheed]

probably wouldn't have made a difference, but Kyrie fouled Kawhi at the end and they reversed it when they shouldn't have

[Ambrose]

Watching live, Harden was bailed out with some ridiculous flails, and I thought that was poor officiating. However, I think most of the examples given above are pretty tame.

[41Dirk41]

No... but I'm surprised at how the referees still call "Phantom" fouls on Harden in 2024.

[HotelVitale]

I just have a minute so I'll respond to the first couple of these. None of these needed to be called IMO but I see why they're fouls (or non-fouls in the last one). If all the calls like this were going LAC's way that's a problem (but also remember that with these type of things you remember and stew over the ones that go against, and don't even really notice them when they go for you).

If you're bored and have no life like me, watch them and see if you feel the ref or refs were leaning towards one team.
Does anyone know why a foul was called here?

Spoiler:

Hard to say much about it because we can't see the contact basically at all with this angle, but the ref is standing literally 3-4 feet from it. It looks like Green grabs PG's back or pushes him in the back here, not a good angle from the TV but the ref is right there and the defender doesn't protest too much. There's a LOT of grabbing on screens so I wouldn't be surprised if this was legit and Green just reminded himself not to do it right in front of the refs.

A bit later, another call that is kind of funky:

[/spoiler]

The sound is ahead here I think (whistle blows like a second early), but the foul's pretty clear--Kyrie makes contact with the screener and then just tries to push right through him. Could be a non-call but people are falling over and there's a lot of contact so makes sense they'd call it. Might've been a way of tamping down aggression on picks.

Can anyone also help me understand if Exum touched Harden at all here?

Spoiler:

I remember this one, also thought it was a trash call until they showed a different angle and you could see that Exum did shuffle directly into Harden's landing space. He had a nice contest going and then he kinda took one more hop into Harden's space, could easily be a no-call but not a smart move by Exum.

And if he did... why doesn't Kyrie get the foul here for a much more obvious contact?[spoiler]

Compared to the last one, Kyrie is the one jumping sideways here so he doesn't have a right to that landing space (shooters only get space to jump and down in the same spot). Could be a foul still, but I like this being a no call since Irving is also using his right arm as a guard-rail and probably pushing off some, and Mann is doing a good job staying tight but not putting any weight on Kyrie. Sick shot too.

[RoteSchroder]

About 3-5 unnecessary calls, including one in favor of the Mavs, which is pretty tame if it’s based on the entire game.

Do the same compilation for bad calls against the Clips otherwise this post is pointless

[Captain_Obvious]

I want to see the travel call on PJ again where he never actually catches the ball

[mademan]

probably wouldn't have made a difference, but Kyrie fouled Kawhi at the end and they reversed it when they shouldn't have

Theyve been pretty clear about ball and hand (and pretty generous about hand as if you touch the ball, they let you slap peoples wrists too). Pretty consistent call the entire 2nd half the season

[Texas Chuck]

ugh, hate this Dirk.

[Slimjimzv]

Several of these are calls where the ref is seeing the action from the opposite side of the camera, so my guess is that there's grabbing going on that you can't see from this angle. One was the defender clearly stepping into the landing space of the jump shooter, and the comp was one where the defender was not stepping into the landing space. There are some bad calls here, but nothing of note over the course of an entire game. It's remarkable that every game has both fan bases complaining about officiating. That probably means that they're doing a fine job.

[DwayneSchintzus]

What the Mavs fans need to understand is that the refs miss calls. It isn't part of some larger conspiracy against the Mavericks or Luka Doncic. Look at the other games, they are missing calls all over the place. The victim mentality of this fanbase has been around for a long time and its supported by a whiny owner and man-baby star player.

All of our teams get hosed. The Lakers get more calls than anyone.

[___Rand___]

1st one's BS. 2nd one should've been a moving screen on Clippers - that was blatant. 3rd one is a foul and correct call - landing space for Harden was taken up by Exum. 4th: Kyrie does get fouled and should be called (but minimal contact). 5th yes foul- that's the kind of contact they haven't been calling these playoffs but they were calling soft fouls earlier so refs are being inconsistent.

Westbrook foul on the block not called and the bump on the other end being called is BS too.

Some of these calls are too soft I agree. And some are just straight BS. That ref needs to get a reprimand for sure after this game. Can't have this kind of inconsistency. I'd be furious too (didn't watch this game. Should have in hindsight).

[Roscoe Sheed]

probably wouldn't have made a difference, but Kyrie fouled Kawhi at the end and they reversed it when they shouldn't have

Theyve been pretty clear about ball and hand (and pretty generous about hand as if you touch the ball, they let you slap peoples wrists too). Pretty consistent call the entire 2nd half the season

Looked like Kyrie hit his forearm.

I'd be in favor of getting rid of all reviews that aren't about clock, three point confirmation, or out of bounds calls because fouls are too subjective. They also take far too long.

[The High Cyde]

Tbh I gave up on what is and isn’t a foul, ignorance is bliss in this case, because it’s all up to the refs to call it or not, it’s subjective.

With gambling becoming more prominent I doubt some stuff in purely innocuous though.

[MrGoat]

A lot of the crying about the refs for the Clippers was because they had one late call go against them in the crunch, the Kyrie one where Kidd challenged (I was shocked they won that challenge).

But my sympathy for the Clippers was very low at that point because I agree there were many earlier calls that seemed slanted against the Mavs. Harden got an infuriatingly friendly whistle in particular and Paul George Zaza Pachulia'd Tim Hardaway leading to an ankle sprain without a call (not that injuring Hardaway particularly hurt the Mavs but he should have gotten free throws on that play)

[NyKnicks1714]

The poll wording is a little disingenuous, but could be unintentional. You're making people choose between "the officiating did not favor a team" and "the officiating was poor" implying that if people pick the latter they're agreeing it was biased. What if someone thinks the officiating was poor and unbiased?

[Laimbeer]

If I'm ever at the point that I take the time to write an OP like this about the refs, please shoot me. Or least stop me from watching any more games.