Live Q&A: Basketball Historian and Author of 'The Birth of the Modern NBA'

[JElias]

Hello people of RealGM! My name is Josh Elias and I am a sports historian specializing in integration-era and pre-integration-era professional basketball. My book, The Birth of the Modern NBA: Pro Basketball in the Year of the Merger, 1949–50, is slated for publication late this spring and can be pre-ordered right now through the previous link or on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or Target.

My work involves formal research into many complex issues both directly and indirectly pertinent to the NBA, its three historic rival leagues, and its many predecessor leagues, and I have been involved in projects centering around archiving, analysis, writing, data, the study of historical trends within the sport, player and team performances, and more.

The Birth of the Modern NBA focuses on both the 1949-50 NBA season and how we arrived at a point in which it was possible for it to play out as it did and lead to the sport's evolution in the way that it did. Significant focuses beyond a play-by-play of the season itself include the BAA-NBL merger, the season's status as the last one before professional basketball's permanent integration, and how the sport navigated WWII, with this being the last season before the U.S. joined the Korean War. As well as, of course, the individual stories of the teams and many key players, coaches, and executives.

Other major projects currently on my docket include research for officially unofficial (Helms-style, for those who know NCAA history) retrospective MVP-equivalent and Champion-equivalent awards for each season prior to the NBA's existence, a series of biographies on pre-NBA players, and a book on the 1950-51 NBA and NPBL seasons which I expect to release in 2026.

I'm here to share my insights and answer any questions you might have about basketball's history, or about basketball in general from the perspective of a basketball historian. My professional experience, as regards what I can speak to as an expert, spans from 1896 until 1961, but I have a well-rounded understanding of later history as well and am happy to answer those questions too, just not to a level of which my perspective is uniquely important as an expert or authority.

[dhsilv2]

I'll kick it off. Can you give us your perspective on the suspentions of Ralph Beard, Dale Barnstable and Alex Groza on the NBA and how that era of basketball unfolded as a result of multiple "star" level guys being banned for life?

[CumberlandPosey]

Hello.i will check out your book.looking forward to it.

My question : How much substance do you put into frank basloes claim of naismith not being the Inventor?....a more Abstract question would be how you see the development of the game?? As Basketball is the most fluid game in Terms of rules,playstyle,interpretations etc and it changes every so often,do you see any patterns/cycles we are in now/do you see a timeframe when the game changes??


Sry for bad English...

[JElias]

I'll kick it off. Can you give us your perspective on the suspentions of Ralph Beard, Dale Barnstable and Alex Groza on the NBA and how that era of basketball unfolded as a result of multiple "star" level guys being banned for life?

It was certainly a weird time for basketball, and the loss of Groza and Beard led quite quickly to the death of the Indianapolis Olympians as a franchise (and the player-owner model as an ownership concept, by association). Both, as individual players, were a massive loss for the sport, but they were far from alone. Sherman White was seen by many as a better player than Groza, and he was guaranteed to be headed to the Knicks as a result of territorial rights because of the ban--that's a team that would go one to make the Finals the next three years anyways, so it's easy to make an argument that his ban stopped them from potentially becoming a dynasty. Gene Melchiorre, the number 1 pick, and Bill Spivey, the projected top pick of the next season, were banned as well. Ed Roman, Ed Warner, Floyd Layne, Billy Mann, all highly regarded prospects likely to carve out a role, all gone too.

I think the losses of Groza, Beard, White, Spivey, and Melchiorre in particular were impactful in a sense of limiting the number of potential stars in the gap between Mikan and Russell, in causing an image issue regarding legitimacy that pushed teams closer to bankruptcy (and note that the two teams that shut down in the subsequent years both lost key parts of their future), and I believe their absence has made it a decent bit easier for fans today to look back at things that happened prior to Russell with a level of dismissiveness that wouldn't be as easily acceptable had they been able to play.

White would've likely been the first black star in the integrated NBA. Spivey would've been the first player of well over 7'. But instead we have, as the best players in basketball right after a guy who was by a large consensus believed to be the best to ever do it, Bob Cousy (who was theoretically the perfect guy to be the face of the league but couldn't lead Boston to the promised in the playoffs at this point), Dolph Schayes (who was great but had aan unorthodox game for the time and was not particularly take-charge as someone easily picturable as the face of the league), and Neil Johnston (who people never really thought of as highly as his stats made him out to be).

[JElias]

Hello.i will check out your book.looking forward to it.

My question : How much substance do you put into frank basloes claim of naismith not being the Inventor?....a more Abstract question would be how you see the development of the game?? As Basketball is the most fluid game in Terms of rules,playstyle,interpretations etc and it changes every so often,do you see any patterns/cycles we are in now/do you see a timeframe when the game changes??


Sry for bad English...

I'll freely admit I haven't spent a massive amount of time looking into the Lambert Will theory that Basloe purports, but my understanding from what I have read is that Will was an important early contributor to the game and introduced it to New York state, but never himself claimed to have invented the sport. If the Herkimer 9 foundation is able to find some hard evidence that it was played in the Herkimer Valley prior to Naismith's first game, I'll consider the theory seriously, but for now I'm treating it as relatively safe to refer to Naismith as the inventor and Will as an early contributor. He probably does deserve a spot in the Hall of Fame as a contributor, but the Hall's incredibly bad at picking and choosing who to recognize from pre-NBA ball.

In terms of how the game changes, the way I understand it is as a series of typically minor to moderate changes in reaction to what succeeds in the half-generation prior that define an era as being somewhat distinct in playstyle. On average, they seem to last about eight years, with the absolute shortest eras being more like five. That's going all the way back to 1891, starting with the Nasmian and Cuparian eras of the sport. In the hundred years prior to Jordan's prime, most of these changes existed in the form of a predominant coaching style, an authoritative president or commissioner, or large-scale events that reached far beyond basketball itself, with players themselves being secondary within that change (but still crucially important, I don't want it to come across as if I'm downplaying them). During and since Jordan, most of these changes have existed primarily as a reaction to a specific player, either in terms of trying to figure how to stop them or how to replicate them. The greatest period of change in the sport's history by far though, unfolded over the course of the Mercenarian Era (1917-23), Fureian Era (1923-1931), and Depression Era (1931-38)... the point in which players had the least direct impact on how the sport changed. I'd hypothesize, because of that, that we are quite unlikely to see extreme changes and that what happens next will likely be a simple reaction to the boom of "skillful" centers operating in the league today.

[wojoaderge]

Do you share the belief that the NBA has yet to celebrate its 75th anniversary? It looks like you might

[JElias]

Do you share the belief that the NBA has yet to celebrate its 75th anniversary? It looks like you might

The evidence I have seen--and I believe I have seen more of the evidence than quite possibly anyone still alive given my focus these past couple years, for the purposes of the book, regarding the 1949-50 season in specific--points to the NBA having come into existence on August 3, 1949 when the BAA and NBL merged.

I am willing to leave open the possibility that the NBA has some internal documentation from the merger that stated in an official capacity that the NBA was, as they claim, to be a rebranded and expanded BAA, but...

1) I do tend to somewhat doubt that to be the case given the general sense of desperation the NBL leadership put the BAA into in the months leading up to the merger, specifically following the NBL's founding of the Indianapolis Olympians in May 1949.

2) External communications during the 1949-50 season were extremely explicit that the NBA was to be considered a new league created as a result of a merger between the BAA and the NBL, that the league was entering its first season, that a new organizational constitution was drawn up and new rules were sent out to each organization, and that records would be reset. The most thoroughly that was explained in my opinion was when Bobby Cook of the Sheboygan Redskins scored 44 points in a game and the newspaper article about that game declared:

The mark will go on the books as a new N.B.A. record in the league's first season of play. The old B.A.A. mark of 63, set by Philadelphia's Joe Fulks in February of last year, stands only as an all-time professional basketball record. It is not recognized as an N.B.A. record, inasmuch as former B.A.A. and N.B.L. marks are officially not a part of the merged-league's records.

3) The NBL's biggest advocate, Ike Duffey, got out of basketball as soon as the 1949-50 NBA season ended. The NBA proceeded to try to force out three of the former NBL teams with surprise financial obligations within days, and when that didn't work, held a vote during the league meeting the next month to expel those three teams. When one owner initially voted against kicking those teams out, Podoloff told him that his team would be added to the list if he didn't change his vote to make it unanimous. Podoloff then lied about it to the media for months, insisting that the three teams resigned their spots despite their owners insisting adamantly that they were kicked out and despite the minutes from the meeting confirming that such a vote was held.

and 4) When those three teams decided to form the backbone of a rival major league the next season, they associated closely with the NBL's history in order to garner legitimacy. When that league poached the NBA's #1 pick, a good number of starters, and had a greater opening day attendance than the NBA, the NBA had to go on the offensive. The BAA had originally only wanted to add a couple NBL teams rather than merge until the Olympians franchise came about, and multiple owners hated being associated with places like Waterloo and Sheboygan, so it was a pretty natural position for the NBA to lean into its BAA-ness in response to this. Midway through this 1950-51 season was when the NBA started to reference the old BAA records as being NBA ones, and then in the 1952 All-Star Game, Podoloff officially recognized during halftime the all-stars who were "five-year veterans" of the league... a list that comprised the trio of ex-BAAers Fulks, Scolari, and Zaslofsky but did not include the ex-NBLers Mikan, Davies, and Risen.

So for those reasons in a principal sense, I, generally speaking, do indeed treat the NBA as if it began in 1949 and later decided to count the BAA's history as its own, yes.

[mastermixer]

Bang, marry, kill.

Rosanne Barr

Kaitlyn Jenner

Whoopi Goldberg

Uhh please respect our guest and don't derail this thread by typing dumb stuff just for the sake of typing dumb stuff. Thx. -b

[JElias]

Bang, marry, kill.

Rosanne Barr

Kaitlyn Jenner

Whoopi Goldberg

Even if I had an answer for that, I wouldn't want it on the record.

[Clav]

Hi Josh, great work on your research and thanks for stopping by. I'm curious do you enjoy the state of the game today ? Do you see any comparisons from historical basketball to today's players ?

[SNPA]

I'll kick it off. Can you give us your perspective on the suspentions of Ralph Beard, Dale Barnstable and Alex Groza on the NBA and how that era of basketball unfolded as a result of multiple "star" level guys being banned for life?

It was certainly a weird time for basketball, and the loss of Groza and Beard led quite quickly to the death of the Indianapolis Olympians as a franchise (and the player-owner model as an ownership concept, by association). Both, as individual players, were a massive loss for the sport, but they were far from alone. Sherman White was seen by many as a better player than Groza, and he was guaranteed to be headed to the Knicks as a result of territorial rights because of the ban--that's a team that would go one to make the Finals the next three years anyways, so it's easy to make an argument that his ban stopped them from potentially becoming a dynasty. Gene Melchiorre, the number 1 pick, and Bill Spivey, the projected top pick of the next season, were banned as well. Ed Roman, Ed Warner, Floyd Layne, Billy Mann, all highly regarded prospects likely to carve out a role, all gone too. I think the losses of Groza, Beard, White, Spivey, and Melchiorre in particular were impactful in a sense of limiting the number of potential stars in the gap between Mikan and Russell, in causing an image issue regarding legitimacy that pushed teams closer to bankruptcy (and note that the two teams that shut down in the subsequent years both lost key parts of their future), and I believe their absence has made it a decent bit easier for fans today to look back at things that happened prior to Russell with a level of dismissiveness that wouldn't be as easily acceptable had they been able to play. White would've likely been the first black star in the integrated NBA. Spivey would've been the first player of well over 7'. But instead we have, as the best players in basketball right after a guy who was by a large consensus believed to be the best to ever do it, Bob Cousy (who was theoretically the perfect guy to be the face of the league but couldn't lead Boston to the promised in the playoffs at this point), Dolph Schayes (who was great but had aan unorthodox game for the time and was not particularly take-charge as someone easily picturable as the face of the league), and Neil Johnston (who people never really thought of as highly as his stats made him out to be).

You’re getting better as you go but paragraph breaks are very helpful online.

Thanks for stopping by. Good stuff.

[GSWFan1994]

I'll try to import the book, seems interesting and worth a read. Appreciate your work and insight.

You should also post this thread at the "Player Comparisons" board, they really like basketball history over there.

My question is: who are the underrated players of the 50s?

Greetings.

[zimpy27]

Will sticky this for now. We hope you get good feedback and discussion going.

[Message Boar]

I don't even feel like I know enough about pre-1961 basketball to even ask a worthwhile question, to be honest.

[VanWest82]

…

[Sixers in 4]

As a historian which players do you believe of years past don't get the recognition they deserve?

What players of past eras that most casual fans would be unaware of do you think would thrive in this era?

As a historian Jordan or Lebron?

[hauntedcomputer]

How much was Mikan the real engine of driving the league at that point? Would there have been other stars who could have carried the mantle toward legitimacy, or was "teams/owners/administrative organization" more important than the talent on the court?

Also, from the description of the book, there was some anti-Semitism at play, which is interesting because Jews seem to have played a large role in integrating Northeastern basketball for black players before the larger organizational structures and wealthier owners came in. Is there much history on the written or unwritten rules that kept basketball segregated for so long, and then resulting in the informal "no more than two blacks per team" policy until Red Auerbach decided he'd rather have a dynasty?

[WaltFrazier]

I'll kick it off. Can you give us your perspective on the suspentions of Ralph Beard, Dale Barnstable and Alex Groza on the NBA and how that era of basketball unfolded as a result of multiple "star" level guys being banned for life?

Groza was interesting. 2nd leading scorer after Mikan his first two years, then gone. Brother of Browns kicker Lou the Toe Groza. Alex later emerged as a fairly successful executive in the ABA, in Kentucky and San Diego. Someone could write a good biography on him.

[wojoaderge]

Do you share the belief that the NBA has yet to celebrate its 75th anniversary? It looks like you might

The evidence I have seen--and I believe I have seen more of the evidence than quite possibly anyone still alive given my focus these past couple years, for the purposes of the book, regarding the 1949-50 season in specific--points to the NBA having come into existence on August 3, 1949 when the BAA and NBL merged.

I am willing to leave open the possibility that the NBA has some internal documentation from the merger that stated in an official capacity that the NBA was, as they claim, to be a rebranded and expanded BAA, but...

1) I do tend to somewhat doubt that to be the case given the general sense of desperation the NBL leadership put the BAA into in the months leading up to the merger, specifically following the NBL's founding of the Indianapolis Olympians in May 1949.

2) External communications during the 1949-50 season were extremely explicit that the NBA was to be considered a new league created as a result of a merger between the BAA and the NBL, that the league was entering its first season, that a new organizational constitution was drawn up and new rules were sent out to each organization, and that records would be reset. The most thoroughly that was explained in my opinion was when Bobby Cook of the Sheboygan Redskins scored 44 points in a game and the newspaper article about that game declared:

The mark will go on the books as a new N.B.A. record in the league's first season of play. The old B.A.A. mark of 63, set by Philadelphia's Joe Fulks in February of last year, stands only as an all-time professional basketball record. It is not recognized as an N.B.A. record, inasmuch as former B.A.A. and N.B.L. marks are officially not a part of the merged-league's records.

3) The NBL's biggest advocate, Ike Duffey, got out of basketball as soon as the 1949-50 NBA season ended. The NBA proceeded to try to force out three of the former NBL teams with surprise financial obligations within days, and when that didn't work, held a vote during the league meeting the next month to expel those three teams. When one owner initially voted against kicking those teams out, Podoloff told him that his team would be added to the list if he didn't change his vote to make it unanimous. Podoloff then lied about it to the media for months, insisting that the three teams resigned their spots despite their owners insisting adamantly that they were kicked out and despite the minutes from the meeting confirming that such a vote was held.

and 4) When those three teams decided to form the backbone of a rival major league the next season, they associated closely with the NBL's history in order to garner legitimacy. When that league poached the NBA's #1 pick, a good number of starters, and had a greater opening day attendance than the NBA, the NBA had to go on the offensive. The BAA had originally only wanted to add a couple NBL teams rather than merge until the Olympians franchise came about, and multiple owners hated being associated with places like Waterloo and Sheboygan, so it was a pretty natural position for the NBA to lean into its BAA-ness in response to this. Midway through this 1950-51 season was when the NBA started to reference the old BAA records as being NBA ones, and then in the 1952 All-Star Game, Podoloff officially recognized during halftime the all-stars who were "five-year veterans" of the league... a list that comprised the trio of ex-BAAers Fulks, Scolari, and Zaslofsky but did not include the ex-NBLers Mikan, Davies, and Risen.

So for those reasons in a principal sense, I, generally speaking, do indeed treat the NBA as if it began in 1949 and later decided to count the BAA's history as its own, yes.

Great answer, thanks!

[dhsilv2]

I'll kick it off. Can you give us your perspective on the suspentions of Ralph Beard, Dale Barnstable and Alex Groza on the NBA and how that era of basketball unfolded as a result of multiple "star" level guys being banned for life?

Groza was interesting. 2nd leading scorer after Mikan his first two years, then gone. Brother of Browns kicker Lou the Toe Groza. Alex later emerged as a fairly successful executive in the ABA, in Kentucky and San Diego. Someone could write a good biography on him.

My dad is a commercial photograph. Sam Beard's basketball collection many many years ago found it's way to his studio along with some other UK related stuff. Really wild to see somewhat "important" players like these two being removed from a fledgling league in need of names and stars.