Is Jokic better than Kobe ever was? How long before he surpasses him all-time?

[Myth]

Top 10 lists are just going to get more complicated and controversial with Jokic entering that discussion. Not simply where he is, but also who gets left out of the 10.

[Movics]

Grew up idolizing Kobe’s game and his jersey was the first one I’ve ever gotten. Kobe was a truly amazing player. Jokic is on another level though. Guy seems unbeatable which I never felt watching Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Bron or Steph… if he catches Shaq in rings, he’s a top 5 player of all time

[uncleduck13]

No he’s not and he won’t unless he gets more rings. This board has serious Kobe Derangement Syndrome.

Kobe only has 2 FMVPs and 1 MVP while also just straight up not peaking as high as a player in general. If rings is your only argument in the debate you're cooked.

Yea, it's not that difficult to surpass Kobe, relatively speaking. In terms of fame and popularity, however, Joker will never come close.

This is why Kobe will always be in top 10 discussions. Not because he’s actually a top 10 level basketball player. But because he’s a super famous pop culture figure, who played for the most storied franchise in NBA history. By default he’ll always be relevant and mentioned over players that are vastly superior to him.

[Special_Puppy]

Think it would take something crazy like getting 3 MVPs and 3 Finals MVPs for Jokic to pass Kobe in the eyes of the public

[Jta444]

Kobe is a top 10 player of all time, and at the very least top 12.

And that’s exactly the greatest thing about Kobe and why a lot of people and a lot of players idolize him.

For a 6”6 guard without the body of Lebron, athleticism of Jordan, height of Duncan he really maximized all his talents to be one of the greatest. Mentality wise and work ethic wise id say he’s top 5 if not the greatest. That’s why a lot of people are fans.

Yea his peak isnt as great as Lebron and Jokic, but you have to consider his physical tools and how he maximized those to be the great he is and a lot
Of fans relate to that. Intangibles is where’s he is the greatest.

Along with curry he’s the only small man without really any excellent athletic tools in the top 12.

[FrobeBryant]

Rings matter to a degree, but also not really a great way of comparing players individually. Kobe won 3 of his rings playing second fiddle to a top 10 player of all time, while both were in their primes. If Jokic got to be the second best player on his team to someone like Magic or LeBron in their prime, he'd probably be going for his 5th straight title right now. Instead, he's never even played with an all-star and spent a couple of his prime years with Will Barton as his #2 scorer. Comparing rings in that scenario doesn't make much sense.

Kobe also won 2 as the best player on his team. If Kobe had the talent Jokic has had on his team the last couple years he most likely would have won more. Yes Jokic is great, not denying that..but he’s got an amazing supporting cast that complement each other very well.

Kobe won those 2 alongside another Hall of famer , while Jokic has yet to play with an All-Star. No way are you comparing team talent.

Hall of famer only because winning with Kobe got him to that level. That and his international play, which doesn’t factor into this argument. Before Kobe, Pau had gone to the playoffs once and was swept in the first round and had one all star appearance. Meanwhile Jokic doesn’t have another all star but Murray sure plays like one looking at his numbers in the playoffs. Add Gordon and MPJ to that mix and it far out-talents any roster Kobe has played in.

[famicommander]

Kobe was never, at any point, the best player in the NBA. That title went from Jordan to Shaq to Duncan to LeBron. Jokic has been the best player in the NBA for the last four seasons. It's not even close.

[FrobeBryant]

No he’s not and he won’t unless he gets more rings. This board has serious Kobe Derangement Syndrome.

Kobe only has 2 FMVPs and 1 MVP while also just straight up not peaking as high as a player in general. If rings is your only argument in the debate you're cooked.

Winning as a standard is a bad argument? I’m sorry, is that not what the players play for?

[EmpireFalls]

Kobe is a top 10 player of all time, and at the very least top 12.

And that’s exactly the greatest thing about Kobe and why a lot of people and a lot of players idolize him.

For a 6”6 guard without the body of Lebron, athleticism of Jordan, height of Duncan he really maximized all his talents to be one of the greatest. Mentality wise and work ethic wise id say he’s top 5 if not the greatest. That’s why a lot of people are fans.

Yea his peak isnt as great as Lebron and Jokic, but you have to consider his physical tools and how he maximized those to be the great he is and a lot
Of fans relate to that. Intangibles is where’s he is the greatest.

Along with curry he’s the only small man without really any excellent athletic tools in the top 12.

I think Kobe had excellent athletic tools… at least before the late-2000s.

[Gatorade Sax]

Absolutely love Kobe, shed numerous tears when he passed..for multiple reasons.

Jokic is easily a better, more impactful player and that is highlighted by his MVP count already..he SHOULD be about to lock up his 4th straight for gods sake.

Kobe obviously has the rings, but he did play with Shaquille freakin Oneal in his prime as well as many other great players. Jokic just straps whoever he has to his back and goes to work.

[stormi]

Easily. Steph too.

[ScrantonBulls]

No he’s not and he won’t unless he gets more rings. This board has serious Kobe Derangement Syndrome.

Kobe only has 2 FMVPs and 1 MVP while also just straight up not peaking as high as a player in general. If rings is your only argument in the debate you're cooked.

Winning as a standard is a bad argument? I’m sorry, is that not what the players play for?

Agreed. That's why I have Kobe right behind Robert Horry. Both all time greats.

[durden_tyler]

He’s already better than Kobe.

[Showdown]

Kobe has 5 rings,was clutch player,superior defender ,played in era when it was toughest to score compared to this era with inflated points and rebounds plus Jokic plays for Nuggets that are known to pad assists so at least 3rd of his asists woukdn't be counted if he played somewhere else.Kobe deserved two more MVPs but didnt got them because they gave them to the white guy who avereged 16 points becayse of racism, Jokic got two undeserved MVP awards for the same reason.Using fact that Kobe wasn't pasive guy and that he took responsibility for taking tough shots in the PO instead of giving the hot potato into the hands of his role players isn't argument against him ,it is argument for him,stat nerds using it against him just show that they are bad faith actors that use advanced stats ro push naratives and fact that they are unathletic guys that didn't played sport even in the elementary school want to rewrite the history and the way basketball is viewed and played makes them even worse.

[Jimmy Recard]

Individually he’s already better than Kobe ever was. Just needs a couple more titles now.

[scrabbarista]

First question: Duh.

Second question: Approximately six weeks.

[uncleduck13]

Easily. Steph too.

You saying Joker > Steph?
Or Steph > Kobe too?

I personally agree with both statements.

[Rishkar]

I have Jokic 29th (I'm big on era-relative longevity) and Kobe 17th (really low on his peak). Give Jokic 5 years of average production, and I think he cracks the top 15. Give him 5 more years of elite production, and he's a Goat candidate.

[CodeBreaker]

He's already better than Peak Kobe imo

[Jta444]

Kobe is a top 10 player of all time, and at the very least top 12.

And that’s exactly the greatest thing about Kobe and why a lot of people and a lot of players idolize him.

For a 6”6 guard without the body of Lebron, athleticism of Jordan, height of Duncan he really maximized all his talents to be one of the greatest. Mentality wise and work ethic wise id say he’s top 5 if not the greatest. That’s why a lot of people are fans.

Yea his peak isnt as great as Lebron and Jokic, but you have to consider his physical tools and how he maximized those to be the great he is and a lot
Of fans relate to that. Intangibles is where’s he is the greatest.

Along with curry he’s the only small man without really any excellent athletic tools in the top 12.

I think Kobe had excellent athletic tools… at least before the late-2000s.

Yes ofc he was above average compared to the league but when you look at the top 12 all-time all of them had physical tools better than him except Curry and maybe Bird although Bird was 6”10 too. Almost all in top 12 are athletic marvels. Wilt Shaq Lebron MJ Magic Bill Russell Hakeem Duncan Kareem all are either top-tier athletes or big men or both. Kobe didnt have the size nor the athleticism of those players but still was able to form a resume better than most of them.