GET RID!!! of the 3 second defensive violation

[rim_killa]

still don't know wtf it is

if it gives the defense the upper hand

good riddance to that rule

no more 120 point games

@adam_silver

[LaLover11]

No

[sp6r=underrated]

It is a stupid rule that doesn't exist in any basketball league beyond the NBA. It makes playing defense absurdly hard in the NBA and leads to endless pick and roll spam.

[ChipotleWest]

Didn't exist when Jordan played (except at the end when he was in Washington) nor hand checking being illegal, couldn't stop him anyway.

[prophet_of_rage]

Didn't exist when Jordan played (except at the end when he was in Washington) nor hand checking being illegal, couldn't stop him anyway.

The defensive three seconds is to prevent teams from playing true zones and wiping out the dunk. The NBA isn't meant to be college. People want to see spectacular layups and dunks not lumbering behemoths standing under the hoop or even pogostick guys blocking/altering most shots.

You have the NCAA for that.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

[Bloodbather]

Didn't exist when Jordan played (except at the end when he was in Washington) nor hand checking being illegal, couldn't stop him anyway.

The defensive three seconds is to prevent teams from playing true zones and wiping out the dunk. The NBA isn't meant to be college. People want to see spectacular layups and dunks not lumbering behemoths standing under the hoop or even pogostick guys blocking/altering most shots.

You have the NCAA for that.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

The most spectacular layups and dunks happen when there's a guy guarding the rim.

[prophet_of_rage]

Didn't exist when Jordan played (except at the end when he was in Washington) nor hand checking being illegal, couldn't stop him anyway.

The defensive three seconds is to prevent teams from playing true zones and wiping out the dunk. The NBA isn't meant to be college. People want to see spectacular layups and dunks not lumbering behemoths standing under the hoop or even pogostick guys blocking/altering most shots.

You have the NCAA for that.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

The most spectacular layups and dunks happen when there's a guy guarding the rim.

Tell that to the rules committee and players like Michael Jordan who argued against zones.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

[Scalabrine]

Wouldn't this just encourage more threes?

I don't think the high scores are because there are more points in the paint. It's more threes and more fast break points.

Why do you think this would help that?

[meekrab]

Didn't exist when Jordan played (except at the end when he was in Washington) nor hand checking being illegal, couldn't stop him anyway.

The defensive three seconds is to prevent teams from playing true zones and wiping out the dunk. The NBA isn't meant to be college. People want to see spectacular layups and dunks not lumbering behemoths standing under the hoop or even pogostick guys blocking/altering most shots.

You have the NCAA for that.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

NBA teams would *love* to play against a zone defense 24/7. There's a reason nobody does it in pro leagues, it's not good. It works in NCAA because scrubs can't shoot and the average college team is 11 scrubs and one guy who might make the G-league.

[One_and_Done]

Getting rid of it would literally ruin the league.

[Showtime 80]

The defensive three seconds is to prevent teams from playing true zones and wiping out the dunk. The NBA isn't meant to be college. People want to see spectacular layups and dunks not lumbering behemoths standing under the hoop or even pogostick guys blocking/altering most shots.

You have the NCAA for that.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

The most spectacular layups and dunks happen when there's a guy guarding the rim.

Tell that to the rules committee and players like Michael Jordan who argued against zones.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

Apparently it is a little known fact around theses parts that MJ killed the true “college style zone” to the tune of 54% FG average during his 3 years at NC while he shot 50% FG from 1984-98 in the NBA. Not to mention he did that without a 23 feet 3 point line to help out with the spacing! He murdered in the 84’ Olympics as well.

Jerry Tarkanian used to call zone defense “lazy man defense” because you are leaving too many gaps on the floor for versatile offensive players to exploit because you’re reduced to guarding space and not players. It creates a passive reactive defense instead of an aggressive opportunistic one.

Stu Jackson who has been at the forefront of most of the NBA offensive slanted rule changes for the past 30 years had an interview back in the mid 2000’s about the apprehension of players mainly Michael Jordan to the implementation of the zone in the NBA and his response was basically that he along with a lot of people saw the decay of offensive fundamentals from the mid 1990’s onwards with AAU taking a more pivotal role in the development of players with became more about athleticism and flash over nuanced substance.

He was right, NBA offenses cratered and defensive heavy teams like Detroit, San Antonio and Indiana started dominating until the summer of 2005 when everybody started complaining again mainly Mark Cuban and Jerry Collangelo and thus they went to the drawing board to handicap defenses even more with the complete elimination of more physicality, hand checking and adding the defensive 3 seconds before that.

So we arrive at the NBA at “beginner level” of modern times were defenses have been totally neutered offering basically no resistance to artificially enhance AAU poisoned offensive “stars” making people actually believe they are watching something “legendary” when in reality it was all manipulated to enhance NBA offenses, basically it’s the WWENBA

In short, the NBA would never take a rule that enhances offenses specially because they know more than everybody how limited these modern players have become since the mid 90’s with the invasion of the high schooler/one and dones who are essentially just concentrating on layups and 3 pointers ignoring basically any other spot on the court. In the 80’s early 90’s it wouldn’t have been a problem and players would’ve adjusted but it would be suicide for the modern NBA.

[Chuck Everett]

Didn't exist when Jordan played (except at the end when he was in Washington) nor hand checking being illegal, couldn't stop him anyway.

The defensive three seconds is to prevent teams from playing true zones and wiping out the dunk. The NBA isn't meant to be college. People want to see spectacular layups and dunks not lumbering behemoths standing under the hoop or even pogostick guys blocking/altering most shots.

You have the NCAA for that.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

Agreed. FG% would fall through the floor. However, the midrange merchants would become way more valuable.

[prophet_of_rage]

The most spectacular layups and dunks happen when there's a guy guarding the rim.

Tell that to the rules committee and players like Michael Jordan who argued against zones.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

Apparently it is a little known fact around theses parts that MJ killed the true “college style zone” to the tune of 54% FG average during his 3 years at NC while he shot 50% FG from 1984-98 in the NBA. Not to mention he did that without a 23 feet 3 point line to help out with the spacing! He murdered in the 84’ Olympics as well.

Jerry Tarkanian used to call zone defense “lazy man defense” because you are leaving too many gaps on the floor for versatile offensive players to exploit because you’re reduced to guarding space and not players. It creates a passive reactive defense instead of an aggressive opportunistic one.

Stu Jackson who has been at the forefront of most of the NBA offensive slanted rule changes for the past 30 years had an interview back in the mid 2000’s about the apprehension of players mainly Michael Jordan to the implementation of the zone in the NBA and his response was basically that he along with a lot of people saw the decay of offensive fundamentals from the mid 1990’s onwards with AAU taking a more pivotal role in the development of players with became more about athleticism and flash over nuanced substance.

He was right, NBA offenses cratered and defensive heavy teams like Detroit, San Antonio and Indiana started dominating until the summer of 2005 when everybody started complaining again mainly Mark Cuban and Jerry Collangelo and thus they went to the drawing board to handicap defenses even more with the complete elimination of more physicality, hand checking and adding the defensive 3 seconds before that.

So we arrive at the NBA at “beginner level” of modern times were defenses have been totally neutered offering basically no resistance to artificially enhance AAU poisoned offensive “stars” making people actually believe they are watching something “legendary” when in reality it was all manipulated to enhance NBA offenses, basically it’s the WWENBA

In short, the NBA would never take a rule that enhances offenses specially because they know more than everybody how limited these modern players have become since the mid 90’s with the invasion of the high schooler/one and dones who are essentially just concentrating on layups and 3 pointers ignoring basically any other spot on the court. In the 80’s early 90’s it wouldn’t have been a problem and players would’ve adjusted but it would be suicide for the modern NBA.

Yes the world peaked in the 90s. Read up.on Michael.Jordan talking to the competition committee saying he wouldn't have had his career in the NBA if there were zones. Nobody wants college scores in the NBA.

And analytics killed the midrange not AAU.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

[tsherkin]

And analytics killed the midrange not AAU.

Analytics did not kill the midrange. People's misapplication of analytics did that.

[Showtime 80]

Tell that to the rules committee and players like Michael Jordan who argued against zones.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

Apparently it is a little known fact around theses parts that MJ killed the true “college style zone” to the tune of 54% FG average during his 3 years at NC while he shot 50% FG from 1984-98 in the NBA. Not to mention he did that without a 23 feet 3 point line to help out with the spacing! He murdered in the 84’ Olympics as well.

Jerry Tarkanian used to call zone defense “lazy man defense” because you are leaving too many gaps on the floor for versatile offensive players to exploit because you’re reduced to guarding space and not players. It creates a passive reactive defense instead of an aggressive opportunistic one.

Stu Jackson who has been at the forefront of most of the NBA offensive slanted rule changes for the past 30 years had an interview back in the mid 2000’s about the apprehension of players mainly Michael Jordan to the implementation of the zone in the NBA and his response was basically that he along with a lot of people saw the decay of offensive fundamentals from the mid 1990’s onwards with AAU taking a more pivotal role in the development of players with became more about athleticism and flash over nuanced substance.

He was right, NBA offenses cratered and defensive heavy teams like Detroit, San Antonio and Indiana started dominating until the summer of 2005 when everybody started complaining again mainly Mark Cuban and Jerry Collangelo and thus they went to the drawing board to handicap defenses even more with the complete elimination of more physicality, hand checking and adding the defensive 3 seconds before that.

So we arrive at the NBA at “beginner level” of modern times were defenses have been totally neutered offering basically no resistance to artificially enhance AAU poisoned offensive “stars” making people actually believe they are watching something “legendary” when in reality it was all manipulated to enhance NBA offenses, basically it’s the WWENBA

In short, the NBA would never take a rule that enhances offenses specially because they know more than everybody how limited these modern players have become since the mid 90’s with the invasion of the high schooler/one and dones who are essentially just concentrating on layups and 3 pointers ignoring basically any other spot on the court. In the 80’s early 90’s it wouldn’t have been a problem and players would’ve adjusted but it would be suicide for the modern NBA.

Yes the world peaked in the 90s. Read up.on Michael.Jordan talking to the competition committee saying he wouldn't have had his career in the NBA if there were zones. Nobody wants college scores in the NBA.

And analytics killed the midrange not AAU.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

Again a raw 18-21 year old MJ shot 54% FG against a true non-gimmick zone playing in Dean Smith’s rigid offensive system so he would’ve had no problems getting his numbers against any defense.

Would he get as many spectacular dunks in the half court as a pro had the NBA allowed a college style zone in the 80’s/90’s (they still don’t allow it)? Probably not as the paint can be more sealed off but he would’ve just killed teams with short mid range shots, put backs and the fast break opportunities just as he did in college for an easy 50% shooting!

The numb skulls that came during the mid 90’s through today don’t have the blessing of having college coaches like Dean Smith teaching them the basic fundamentals of both offense and defense for 3 plus years so they end up playing off their athleticism which forced the NBA’s hand in altering a bunch of rules to heavily favor offenses and artificially enhance future offensive players. Nothing more, nothing less but kind’ve pathetic for the integrity of a so called “sport”

[Bloodbather]

The defensive three seconds is to prevent teams from playing true zones and wiping out the dunk. The NBA isn't meant to be college. People want to see spectacular layups and dunks not lumbering behemoths standing under the hoop or even pogostick guys blocking/altering most shots.

You have the NCAA for that.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

The most spectacular layups and dunks happen when there's a guy guarding the rim.

Tell that to the rules committee and players like Michael Jordan who argued against zones.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

Players like Jordan trying to make things easier for themselves has nothing to do with the aesthetics of the game.

Point is that spectacular layups and dunks would still happen. The change would be fewer open baskets for scorers. I personally don't find much enjoyment in wide open dunks and layups. Zones couldn't kill the game like college because players can actually punish a zone in the NBA.

I know what not having a defensive 3 second is like, not from college, but from FIBA. It'd make defenses more potent, increasing the value of great offense. NBA would still be more spacious, because the court is bigger and the 3 point line is further away.

[Mr Puddles]

Wouldn't this just encourage more threes?

I don't think the high scores are because there are more points in the paint. It's more threes and more fast break points.

Why do you think this would help that?

Not necessarily, driving to the basket opens up the three point line as well by making the defense collapse. Having a presence in the paint makes it more difficult for teams to drive to the rim.

Also, defenders will in theory play tighter on the perimeter if they know that they have a big man in the middle bailing them out. So it might be that offensive players would be driven off the three point line, but not necessarily be able to go all the way to the cup - which could result in more mid rangers.

[og15]

The defensive three seconds is to prevent teams from playing true zones and wiping out the dunk. The NBA isn't meant to be college. People want to see spectacular layups and dunks not lumbering behemoths standing under the hoop or even pogostick guys blocking/altering most shots.

You have the NCAA for that.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

The most spectacular layups and dunks happen when there's a guy guarding the rim.

Tell that to the rules committee and players like Michael Jordan who argued against zones.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

Certainly at that time when teams didn't prioritize spacing and you were playing multiple non shooters, the idea of zones made no sense.

I don't think Jordan should be an authority on this though as he's simply thinking from his experience vs from what coaches are able to do and adjust in terms of how their run their offense to take advantage of the zone (with 3 in the key).

If you have shooting and spacing though, you gain much greater ability to attack a zone. Euroleague has no 3 in the key and their Ortg this season was close to NBA levels.

[boomershadow]

Didn't exist when Jordan played (except at the end when he was in Washington) nor hand checking being illegal, couldn't stop him anyway.

Defensive limitations were MORE strict in the 90s, not less.

illegal defense and defensive 3 seconds are both bizarre, arbitrary, unnecessary rules. If players are as absurdly offensively talented today as they claim to be today, they should be able to handle a zone defense

[og15]

Didn't exist when Jordan played (except at the end when he was in Washington) nor hand checking being illegal, couldn't stop him anyway.

Defensive limitations were MORE strict in the 90s, not less.

illegal defense and defensive 3 seconds are both bizarre, arbitrary, unnecessary rules. If players are as absurdly offensively talented today as they claim to be today, they should be able to handle a zone defense

The players were all scoring fine vs zone in international basketball, the college ones played against zones and were fine. Of course few teams even in college these days play actual "zone", the coaches say there are too many good shooters and everyone has other zone busting strategies to do that, so 90% of the time they are in man to man, but it's just the defenders not having to worry about stepping out of the paint every 3 seconds that is the value.

The no zone was a rule from the onset of the NBA when there wasn't even a 3PT line and most of the offense was like 16 feet in, of course you don't want a zone with that set up.

As the game expanded and they had the 3PT line, people weren't shooting two handed set shots, etc, they should have allowed zone. Teams would adjust. It's possible in that situation, 3PT shooting would have been prioritized even earlier.

NBA teams still aren't going to be throwing out a 2-3 zone for a whole game or something wild like that, but not having to step out of the paint every few seconds would help.