Maybe drop the in-season cup?

[Funcrusher]

Im more pissed off about the 65 game award cutoff the NBAPA agreed to, among other things. Honestly the league would be in a better place if we had gotten another lockout

Why?

People have crapped on limited-game awards forever, going back to Walton, and more recently Iverson. Why does having a minimum GP requirement bother you?

Because that, among other things, was a terrible and unnescessary investment that doesnt really solve anything intuitively wrong with the regular season (which is what it was billed as in part). Ive long expressed that the NBA needs to shorten the season by 20 games or so and eliminate back-to-backs, that would honestly address so manny issues at once, instead the narrative that was "addressed" was star player participation, player empowerment, load management, you get the drift. The league, with the cooperation of the Player's association, saw the rumblings of fan discontent with the product, and attacked the symptoms rather than the condition itself, predictably.

[dhsilv2]

IST was successful despite being just introduced, two trophies have nothing to do with one another, Lakers poped champagne because they beat other teams and won a trophy, as they should, no one ever claimed trophy has significant importance, not every trophy in sports is the same, they are all different, but you still celebrate it if you win one.

It did make money, so yes. By that it was successful. But no...teams and players shouldn't be celebrating this crap! The final doesn't even count towards the regular season. It was the most meaningless game most of these guys have played their entire lives! Win your money if you want. Buy a nice watch or something and move on. There's no need for popping bottles or putting up a freaking banner. Might as well have put an "I'm with stupid" t-shirt in the rafters.

[tsherkin]

Im more pissed off about the 65 game award cutoff the NBAPA agreed to, among other things. Honestly the league would be in a better place if we had gotten another lockout

Why?

People have crapped on limited-game awards forever, going back to Walton, and more recently Iverson. Why does having a minimum GP requirement bother you?

Because that, among other things, was a terrible and unnescessary investment that doesnt really solve anything intuitively wrong with the regular season (which is what it was billed as in part). Ive long expressed that the NBA needs to shorten the season by 20 games or so and eliminate back-to-backs, that would honestly address so manny issues at once, instead the narrative that was "addressed" was star player participation, player empowerment, load management, you get the drift. The league, with the cooperation of the Player's association, saw the rumblings of fan discontent with the product, and attacked the symptoms rather than the condition itself, predictably.

They aren't going to shorten the season. That would cost them far too much money. This is known.

Back to backs, maybe, but that really makes scheduling a pain. Star player participation is actually a relevant concern. And yeah, the minimum game requirement is another one to encourage players to actually play in games, which is a large part of regular season disengagement.

[UcanUwill]

Why should the NBA sanction a worst than bronze trophy?

The in-season tournament isn't just gimmicky. It's a mistake.

I don't have a problem with it, but multiple parties went too far in trying to over-hype it. The NBA did a Finals-level ceremony after the game, and the Lakers hung a banner. Both of these actions were over the top, and made the whole deal seem ridiculous at the time. Now that the winners were just 1st round almost sweep exits, it looks even sillier.

IST is fine, but let's hold the champagne/banner hanging type stuff.

American sport teams like banners, so I do not see a problem. They didnt even had separate banner, they put that one with intention to update it if they win again in the future, it is like one banner for all IST wins in advance, pretty deuchy kind of way to do for the Lakers, but how is that overhyping?

Also. It was a tournament which they won, what are they suppose to do, just leave the arena. Every team celebrates trophies, does Manchester City just leave the pitch after they win English cup, because it aint Champions league final? Like seriously, some of you guys are just being ridiculous, a team cant celebrate a cup win now...

I get everyone defends their way and what they acustommed to, and for some reason American way is to have one championship and thats it. But, its like objectively worse model from fan perspective. What is more interesting to me? Watching my Euro team play in 3 different tournaments, not only mixing the routine, but making each game more important since there are less games in each run, or watching a team play 82 season games, and the record of if often barely end to matter anyway? It is not the latter. American long season model is boring, seriously, how dare they tingle with my December NBA season games by making it into something...

As I have said in other thread, it will have historical significance, because there will be times same team will win both IST and LO'B, and we will be debating that teams place in history books, and we will be sad some all time great teams played in a league prior to IST, and never gad a chance to prove the dominance throughout whole season, not just April-June.

2 weeks ago, one of our domestic teams retired Chuck Eidson's number, who is arguably the best foreigner to play in our country. Jersey retirements are very rare here, but Eidson was well deserved. I remember how dominant Eidson made that team, but during the ceremony, I was reminded that during Eidsons golden season, the team won all 4 leagues and cups they were. I pondered on that, and realized it trully was the best season in franchice history, they won domestic league and cup, baltic league and Eurocup. Now, if we had the model where there was only one championship, it would be great, but it just wouldnt be the same thing at all. To reach and win four different finals, it is something that will be reminded again and again and fans can be proud of.

And yes, often cup winners do not win late season, more important championships, but it never takes away their victory prior.

Also, IST wont or at least never should be tied to anything NBA playoffs. It is separate thing, I think having it's games count as regular season games was smart at first, but ideally going forward should just be completely separate. If you give IST winner things like home court advantage in play offs, it instantly cheapens both IST itself, and furthermore cheapens already cheap regular season. You do not play IST for advantage in play offs or smth, you play it to win IST. If you don't like it, just lose. If you think trophy is useless, that is your personal problem. As a fan, I also never cared for some tournaments, I usually only care about international ones, I do not care about domestic ones, since no one outside our borders would even care, so why I care, I sim for international glory

But I know plenty of fans care about domestic championship the most by far, because all longlasting rivalries are present there. I know many Newcastle United fans would rather win Premier over Champions league, tho to anyone outside their island, Champions league would be more prestigious and the thing that would make Newcastle a global story, not winning the England thing.

[UcanUwill]

IST was successful despite being just introduced, two trophies have nothing to do with one another, Lakers poped champagne because they beat other teams and won a trophy, as they should, no one ever claimed trophy has significant importance, not every trophy in sports is the same, they are all different, but you still celebrate it if you win one.

It did make money, so yes. By that it was successful. But no...teams and players shouldn't be celebrating this crap! The final doesn't even count towards the regular season. It was the most meaningless game most of these guys have played their entire lives! Win your money if you want. Buy a nice watch or something and move on. There's no need for popping bottles or putting up a freaking banner. Might as well have put an "I'm with stupid" t-shirt in the rafters.

And what is nba finals game 7 really count for? What olympic final counts for? Why some things counts and some dont, because you don't like it?

Yes, somehow a game that was played for a cup, means less than one of 82 reg season games. I am not even going to bother discuss this garbage thinking anymore, if you don't care for something, it doesn't mean it doesn't matter.

I dont care for NFL, why even have such a thing, its not even Football, Football already exists, its just regby with commercials, aka garbage. How Superbowl matter? Why anything ever won in sports matter now? Its easy to be a di×k when you dont like something, look, if you dont like it, no one forces you to experience it, you are obviously not the target demographic. I dont watch LKL games tho it has a team that I cheer for in Euroleague. I want them to win Euroleague games, therefor I watch that, I dont care if they win LKL, I dont watch. I dont parade how LKL doesn't mean anything.

I wonder how the other thread balooned into 6 pages, but I saw you often where last post, so I guess you really wanted to prove the world a sports trophy dont matter in grand scheme. Thats great, why are we sports fans then? None of this crap matter, but Kyrie Irving somehow gets paid more than heart surgeon, we are obviously all the problem...

[UcanUwill]

Im more pissed off about the 65 game award cutoff the NBAPA agreed to, among other things. Honestly the league would be in a better place if we had gotten another lockout

Why?

People have crapped on limited-game awards forever, going back to Walton, and more recently Iverson. Why does having a minimum GP requirement bother you?

Personally, I think if NBA gives person a voting power, they trust their judgement. It was always arbitrary thing, hard to define best players and best defenders. Sometimes best defender plays less and then it gets tricky, but it should be up for a voter in my view. League had right to place such stupid restrictions, but I personally not a fan. Now we have and will have instances where guy will play one less game or 5 minutes less in 2 games, and now he cant even be considered... Just stupid.

This and positionless all nba is pretty insulting changes in my opinion.

[tsherkin]

Personally, I think if NBA gives person a voting power, they trust their judgement. It was always arbitrary thing, hard to define best players and best defenders.

We have seen that such trust is often misplaced, more broadly, but also because they are giving voting power, they are able to take it away or create a frame in which those votes should be cast.

I love the restrictions. We've entered an era of players missing many more games than they need to, especially compared to previous eras. It's a little more understandable with the really mobile guys who do a lot of sharp, angular cutting and stuff, sure. Someone like Ja Morant, I mean suspensions aside, that dude is made to be injured based on how he plays. But other guys take a lot of nights off, and teams load manage a ton, and then they get injured in the playoffs anyway and just screw the fans. And I'm a fan of durability being rewarded.

65 games is a reasonable threshold. That was a "notably injured" season 20 years ago. Today, it's almost become par for the course. I'm glad it wasn't something silly like 80 games or whatever because that's unreasonable with a sport like this, for sure. But 65 is pretty reasonable.

[dhsilv2]

IST was successful despite being just introduced, two trophies have nothing to do with one another, Lakers poped champagne because they beat other teams and won a trophy, as they should, no one ever claimed trophy has significant importance, not every trophy in sports is the same, they are all different, but you still celebrate it if you win one.

It did make money, so yes. By that it was successful. But no...teams and players shouldn't be celebrating this crap! The final doesn't even count towards the regular season. It was the most meaningless game most of these guys have played their entire lives! Win your money if you want. Buy a nice watch or something and move on. There's no need for popping bottles or putting up a freaking banner. Might as well have put an "I'm with stupid" t-shirt in the rafters.

And what is nba finals game 7 really count for? What olympic final counts for? Why some things counts and some dont, because you don't like it?

Yes, somehow a game that was played for a cup, means less than one of 82 reg season games. I am not even going to bother discuss this garbage thinking anymore, if you don't care for something, it doesn't mean it doesn't matter.

I dont care for NFL, why even have such a thing, its not even Football, Football already exists, its just regby with commercials, aka garbage. How Superbowl matter? Why anything ever won in sports matter now? Its easy to be a di×k when you dont like something, look, if you dont like it, no one forces you to experience it, you are obviously not the target demographic. I dont watch LKL games tho it has a team that I cheer for in Euroleague. I want them to win Euroleague games, therefor I watch that, I dont care if they win LKL, I dont watch. I dont parade how LKL doesn't mean anything.

I wonder how the other thread balooned into 6 pages, but I saw you often where last post, so I guess you really wanted to prove the world a sports trophy dont matter in grand scheme. Thats great, why are we sports fans then? None of this crap matter, but Kyrie Irving somehow gets paid more than heart surgeon, we are obviously all the problem...

You play the NBA season and playoffs to win the NBA title. You go to the Olympics to win the Olympic title.

They matter more because they are the reason for the whole event in the first place.

I've not no idea what you're going about why have more than one sport not played on horse back. NBA is just another football event if you want to look at history. I think we can all agree it's ok to have multiple sports played on our feet.

But again, having side quests in a professional season is just dumb. And that's effectively what this is. A lame side quest that at best does nothing and at worst could get guys injured if they put too much focus on it.

[Raps in 4]

It's just a participation trophy. It's pointless. Whether it exists or doesn't is irrelevant. It's there for the casual fans. The players won't ever care about it and neither will hardcore fans.

[UcanUwill]

Personally, I think if NBA gives person a voting power, they trust their judgement. It was always arbitrary thing, hard to define best players and best defenders.

We have seen that such trust is often misplaced, more broadly, but also because they are giving voting power, they are able to take it away or create a frame in which those votes should be cast.

I love the restrictions. We've entered an era of players missing many more games than they need to, especially compared to previous eras. It's a little more understandable with the really mobile guys who do a lot of sharp, angular cutting and stuff, sure. Someone like Ja Morant, I mean suspensions aside, that dude is made to be injured based on how he plays. But other guys take a lot of nights off, and teams load manage a ton, and then they get injured in the playoffs anyway and just screw the fans. And I'm a fan of durability being rewarded.

65 games is a reasonable threshold. That was a "notably injured" season 20 years ago. Today, it's almost become par for the course. I'm glad it wasn't something silly like 80 games or whatever because that's unreasonable with a sport like this, for sure. But 65 is pretty reasonable.

League give and take away voting power each year, so of course sometimes it is misplaced, but overall, you carefully select people, most of them should have idea how to do this.

As Euro, I always grew up with idea of cheering for teams, not players. NBA is obviously built different as it advertises itself entirely around stars. But they shot themselves in a foot by doing that and now punishing teams and players themselves for doing it. Same with loterry system. To me, it is pretty insulting. If Nuggets don't play Jokic, how is that anyone elses problem? I know league is built in a way they have a right to punish teams for not playing their players, but it really shouldn't be that way, it is absolutely ridiculous. Imagine if La Liga could have fined Barcelona for not playing Messi enough...

Most leagues are build in a way games matter, so teams would want to play their best guys cause they need to win. Pretty novel idea... NBA is built where NBA regular season games often barely matter if that, or even worse, Ls actually rewarded. League is fundamentally broken and they can't fix it, so they just fining teams and players who bring to surface how broken the league is.

Explain that to a person who is a fan of league that isnt broken. They fining and adding restrictions so best players would play. But why? Because players skip games all the time. Why would they do that? Because they can since a lot of results do not mean anything. So, instead of doing something to change the league, they just figured to fine players? Yes, exactly. Aren't they added mid season tournament so games would matter a little? Yes, but fans hate it and argue it matters even less. Why that league even has fans then? I don't know, it has Wembanyama and Jokic...

[tsherkin]

League give and take away voting power each year, so of course sometimes it is misplaced, but overall, you carefully select people, most of them should have idea how to do this.

One would think. Errantly, as it happens, but I understand the assumption.

If Nuggets don't play Jokic, how is that anyone elses problem?

Every fan of the opposing team hoping for a quality game. Every fan of Jokic, local or from another place, looking to see him play. Etc, etc.

Most leagues are build in a way games matter,

No they aren't. The NHL has the same 82-game season and baseball has 162, for example. You can hurt yourself pretty badly in terms of your chances if you don't seed well.

[UcanUwill]

League give and take away voting power each year, so of course sometimes it is misplaced, but overall, you carefully select people, most of them should have idea how to do this.

One would think. Errantly, as it happens, but I understand the assumption.

If Nuggets don't play Jokic, how is that anyone elses problem?

Every fan of the opposing team hoping for a quality game. Every fan of Jokic, local or from another place, looking to see him play. Etc, etc.

Most leagues are build in a way games matter,

No they aren't. The NHL has the same 82-game season and baseball has 162, for example. You can hurt yourself pretty badly in terms of your chances if you don't seed well.

Personally, I always felt that at least here, if you show up and are disappointed away teams best player is not playing, you can get your ass kicked. As I've said, over here we want teams to win, its a team sport. I bet there will be people who wanted to see some stars, but overwhelming majority of home fans come with one objective - help home team win or at least watch and hope home team wins. It is entitely different culture, where in America, you only see games as entertainment, you do not feel obligated to cheer or anything, and its great imo, but over here, you will always be z weirdo if you are actually disapointed in away teams lineup getting weaker.

And as for most leagues, I obviously do not talk about North American ones, as my gripes with the NBA heavily implies I have gripes with entirety of how North American sports are structured. As a big Basketball, but not necessarily NBA fan, I feel obligation to follow and know the league inside out, it is a distraction and I don't want to end up like Mirotic12, who is like clueless, but at the same time, at this point I find harder to pull for a league that from ground up built the way it is. With one championship until now, long season that barely mean anything, loterry system. None of that is very appealing to me.
My hobby is following the league, not necessarily being a fan of it. I am like a historian now or smth. Sad, but thats how it is.

[tsherkin]

Personally, I always felt that at least here, if you show up and are disappointed away teams best player is not playing, you can get your ass kicked.

That isn't a reasonable take at all in my eyes, to be honest. That's sort of thuggish nonsense and inappropriate to the 21st century. *shrug*

[UcanUwill]

Personally, I always felt that at least here, if you show up and are disappointed away teams best player is not playing, you can get your ass kicked.

That isn't a reasonable take at all in my eyes, to be honest. That's sort of thuggish nonsense and inappropriate to the 21st century. *shrug*

Maybe I agree, but that is how it is, if you come to arena to watch opposing players, be quiet about it, because you are not in the right place. If you just away fan and find a spot, sure it is risky in some arenas, but you are a fan. Being local and coming to watch opponent is not accepted very much.

[cgf]

Why? It was a huge success.

[tsherkin]

Maybe I agree, but that is how it is, if you come to arena to watch opposing players, be quiet about it, because you are not in the right place. If you just away fan and find a spot, sure it is risky in some arenas, but you are a fan. Being local and coming to watch opponent is not accepted very much.

Yeah, that's unfortunate and makes me happy I'm not a sports fan there, to be honest.

[Hair Jordan]

Watching Lebron’s in-season tournament champagne celebration mere months before getting blasted out of the playoffs in the first round is hilarious. The irony is not lost on me. They should keep the IST for that reason alone

[UcanUwill]

Maybe I agree, but that is how it is, if you come to arena to watch opposing players, be quiet about it, because you are not in the right place. If you just away fan and find a spot, sure it is risky in some arenas, but you are a fan. Being local and coming to watch opponent is not accepted very much.

Yeah, that's unfortunate and makes me happy I'm not a sports fan there, to be honest.

Its a different culture, as I have mentioned, people who are in arena, they are obligated to actually impact the game. Thats why many people laugh that NBA games have in game music. Such a thing is not needed in Europe.

I am glad you live in a place where you can come to the game peacefully for any reason, I myself, I know what type of person I am and just never go to Arena as fan, it is just not for me as Introvert, and sociophob to boot. I have been to live games and stuff and have seen NBA players live of course, but as fan, my experience is mostly broadcasts and honestly, it works for me.

Superfans here are also different. Being rich and sitting courtside in every game gor 20 years wont make you a superfan, there will always be people who outclasses that and grabs camera attention.

[UcanUwill]

Watching Lebron’s in-season tournament champagne celebration mere months before getting blasted out of the playoffs in the first round is hilarious. The irony is not lost on me. They should keep the IST for that reason alone

I appreaciate your hating, how even a player winning a trophy is spinned into ironic loss in a haters eyes, thats impressive dedication to a bit.

[tsherkin]

Its a different culture, as I have mentioned, people who are in arena, they are obligated to actually impact the game.

I understood that, yes. It is not one which I would find appealing in any way, shape or form, was more my point. That's the sort of thing which leads to soccer hooliganism. And Philadelphia.

In any case, different places, different cultures. Here, I like to watch what I enjoy. And yeah, there are people who will call you a bandwagoner or whatever, but they can pound sound. It's recreation, not a job or a religious calling or whatever. I am not standing against the unwashed tides of heretics pouring over the hills to defend the shining purity that is the Raptors, or whatever, you know what I mean? If I wanna watch Jokic while he's in Toronto, then I'm gonna do it. Or whomever. Or whatever else I'm enjoying about a game which isn't involving the Raptors.