Wiretap: Baron thinks Jennings should be RoY

[Newz]

Salmons> Lebron IMO.

I think that is what he is trying to prove.

[rpa]

Oh, so Salmons is the only reason we are doing this? Salmons is so good that he takes us from being 24-28 and by himself improves our record to 36-29?

Salmons = MVP candidate?

The point I'm trying to make (and obviously it's being missed) is that people are trying to equate Jennings' possible success (ie ROY) to his team's success despite the obvious fact that Jennings' team just traded for a good player and got MUCH better. In essence, the claim that Jennings is an ROY because of his current team success is more of a function of who the Bucks added at the trade deadline than it is about Jennings' play.

[heybuckfan]

Samons for MVP!!!!

[KevinMcreynolds]

OK so Steph Curry plays 2 minutes more a game on the team with the fastest pace and his team is ranked 13th in Offensive Efficiency. That means they play very, very fast and at a fairly efficient rate as well. He only averages 5.5 assists.

Jennings plays on 16th ranked pace team with the 23rd ranked offensive efficiency. He also plays 2 minutes less, as mentioned. He averages 6.1 assists.

This isn't to say that Curry isn't a play maker. This is to validate how good of a playermaker Jennings is. Jennings plays on a slow team that isn't efficient at all. If you moved the bucks up to 10 in efficiency it's not hard to imagine about 2 or 3 assists more per game from Jennings.

So the point is, Jennings is proving to be an excellent play maker despite inefficient, sub-average offense around him.

In his last 20 games Curry's at 7.3 APG. Not to mention he's achieving that with D-League callups to dish to. He also shoots a ton and is still getting 7.3. Jennings has become pass first since he can't knock down a jumper right now and still isn't reaching 7+ assists.

Same as you, I'm not trying to discredit Jennings playmaking ability but I don't think you're giving Steph a fair shake.

[Doctor MJ]

If there is one person that respects 37% shooting it's Baron Davis. This makes sense.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archi ... ld_be_roy/

Dayum, that's classic.

[rpa]

See, better.

So 34-38 (a 12% improvement) is "a lot"?

So what's it say about Evans' team going from 17 to 27 wins (a 59% improvement)?


People want to try and attach Jennings' individual success (against other rookies) to his team's success while overlooking the fact that Jennings started with a better team than the other rookies in question. Has Jennings done an admirable job? Sure. But if you want to look at team success look at how much each guy improved their team from last year.

[Newz]

Oh, so Salmons is the only reason we are doing this? Salmons is so good that he takes us from being 24-28 and by himself improves our record to 36-29?

Salmons = MVP candidate?

The point I'm trying to make (and obviously it's being missed) is that people are trying to equate Jennings' possible success (ie ROY) to his team's success despite the obvious fact that Jennings' team just traded for a good player and got MUCH better. In essence, the claim that Jennings is an ROY because of his current team success is more of a function of who the Bucks added at the trade deadline than it is about Jennings' play.

The Kings just traded for a good player in Carl Landry (17/7 on around 52% shooting since he went to the Kings) and they didn't get that much better...

[lakerhater]

24-28 was still in the playoff race in the east and was still on pace to be better than last season's record by a lot.

24-28 is still a bad team. Being in the playoff race with that kind of record tells us a whole lot more about the conference than about the team.

Second:

24-28 over a full season equates to 38 wins (37.8 actually). The Bucks won 34 games last year.

rpa wins with logic in this thread.

Those 4 extra wins in that scenario could easily be attributed to Bogut's return to health. The run they're on now coincides with Salmons' arrival to Milwaukee.

[Buck You]

Or they could also be attributed to Jennings coming in injecting some life into the Bucks and giving them, and most importantly, Bogut confidence. Bogut's rise to a top center has been because of health, skiles, confidence and having a PG who will pass him the ball and make plays.

How about some of you actually think logically instead of trying to ride your agenda of hating Jennings? NONE of the Buck fans are saying he should be roy, we are just trying to defend that he's a good player and I think that's pretty damn ridiculous.

[Newz]

24-28 was still in the playoff race in the east and was still on pace to be better than last season's record by a lot.

24-28 is still a bad team. Being in the playoff race with that kind of record tells us a whole lot more about the conference than about the team.

Second:

24-28 over a full season equates to 38 wins (37.8 actually). The Bucks won 34 games last year.

rpa wins with logic in this thread.

Those 4 extra wins in that scenario could easily be attributed to Bogut's return to health. The run they're on now coincides with Salmons' arrival to Milwaukee.

The Kings only winning 17 games last year could be due to tanking as well (a lot of teams do it). So their record increasing may just be because of them trying to win games?

I also don't see anyone saying Bogut being healthy and Salmons coming to Milwaukee didn't help... Obviously it did. The Bucks look like they are going to win around 45 games this year. They haven't won 45+ games since the 2000-2001 season and it is no coincidence they are on pace to do it now that Brandon Jennings is playing the point for us.

[KF10]

LOL dude. Don't think you're making some kind of point. ESPN pinned the Bucks at 19-63 before the season.

To be fair, most major media outlets saw us having the worst record in the NBA again. And there was a few so called people saying that we will contend for the all time worst record in the history of the L. Kelly Dwyer had us 12-70. And BSPN had us having the worst record in the L again.

....

And btw, BSPN had the Buck winning 30-52 not 19-63.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/stor ... tStandings

[Newz]

And once again, I do not think Jennings should be the ROY. I think he's in third right now behind Evans and Curry.

I just find it amusing that people are trying to say he is either bad or has had no impact on how successful our team has been.

[rpa]

Or they could also be attributed to Jennings coming in injecting some life into the Bucks and giving them, and most importantly, Bogut confidence. Bogut's rise to a top center has been because of health, skiles, confidence and having a PG who will pass him the ball and make plays.

How about some of you actually think logically instead of trying to ride your agenda of hating Jennings? NONE of the Buck fans are saying he should be roy, we are just trying to defend that he's a good player and I think that's pretty damn ridiculous.

I haven't said he's a **** player. My argument is that he isn't in the ROY discussion (though he's in the rookie 1st team discussion obviously) because his only real claim is team success. Yet, he inherited a better team than other players need an extra infusion of talent to that team in order for the team to even be getting any run.

The Kings just traded for a good player in Carl Landry (17/7 on around 52% shooting since he went to the Kings) and they didn't get that much better...

First, the Kings didn't get Landry for a package of Hakim Warrick & Joe Alexander (basically throw-aways); they traded their de-facto best player from last season.

Second, let's take out their record since the trade. On the day before the trade the Kings lost to the Warriors to fall to 18-36. 18-36 puts them on pace for 27 wins. Same value.

[rpa]

LOL dude. Don't think you're making some kind of point. ESPN pinned the Bucks at 19-63 before the season.

To be fair, most major media outlets saw us having the worst record in the NBA again. And there was a few so called people saying that we will contend for the all time worst record in the history of the L. Kelly Dwyer had us 12-70. And BSPN had us having the worst record in the L again.

....

And btw, BSPN had the Buck winning 30-52 not 19-63.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/stor ... tStandings

To add to the above< I read a number of previews saying the Kings not only had the worst talent in the league (by a lot) but also that they were in BY FAR the worst shape of any team in the league and couldn't hope to contend for the playoffs for a good half decade.

[Buck You]

You may have not had said that he's not a good player, but others have.

[Newz]

Where is all of this talent that the Bucks have and that Jennings came into? We have Andrew Bogut and John Salmons. Bogut is playing very well and John Salmons is an average starting 2-guard in the NBA.

After that we have Luke Ridnour, Jerry Stackhouse, Kurt Thomas, Carlos Delfino, Luc Mbah a Moute, Charlie Bell and Ersan Ilyasova... We didn't even get Stackhouse and Salmons until later in the year and up until that point we were giving Warrick burn.

I agree Jennings has a better supporting cast. But 10-20 wins better type supporting cast?

Like I said, I still think Evans and Curry are the guys who should win it. To say Jennings, with all that he has done this year, isn't even in the discussion though is foolish, IMO.

[rpa]

To say Jennings, with all that he has done this year, isn't even in the discussion though is foolish, IMO.

Depends on how you define it. I think of "in the discussion" as meaning that there's a legitimate argument that can be made whereby Jennings *IS* the ROY over both Evans and Curry. Because of the way Evans has played this year I just don't think there's a legitimate argument you can make. In a normal year I think an argument could be made for Jennings winning it. But seeing as how Evans is putting up only the 4th 20/5/5 in history and basically resurrected the entire Kings franchise I just don't see an argument where someone would say "OK, I'll take Jennings".

That's not to take away from Jennings the player or what he's doing. The fact is just that what Evans is doing is of the historical nature.

[Newz]

To say Jennings, with all that he has done this year, isn't even in the discussion though is foolish, IMO.

Depends on how you define it. I think of "in the discussion" as meaning that there's a legitimate argument that can be made whereby Jennings *IS* the ROY over both Evans and Curry. Because of the way Evans has played this year I just don't think there's a legitimate argument you can make. In a normal year I think an argument could be made for Jennings winning it. But seeing as how Evans is putting up only the 4th 20/5/5 in history and basically resurrected the entire Kings franchise I just don't see an argument where someone would say "OK, I'll take Jennings".

That's not to take away from Jennings the player or what he's doing. The fact is just that what Evans is doing is of the historical nature.

I guess I consider 'in the discussion' being one of the top 3 guys. Like Kevin Durant and Kobe Bryant are 'in the discussion' for MVP this year, but LeBron is going to easily win it.

I agree that it is pretty much already settled that (unless something crazy happens here at the end) Evans will be the ROY.

I am still interested in seeing you show me where all of this amazing talent is on the Bucks (outside of Bogut), by the way.

[ZedgetRedd]

As a Bucks fan, Jennings is not the ROY unless he really plays well to round out the season. He does not however, deserve the huge amount of hate he gets on this board. Like, there was a thread a couple weeks ago about good performances by bad players and one guy cited Jennings' double nickel.

On a thread about players people were wrong about, examples of which are Acie Law, Julian Wright, Ammo and others, somebody said something like, "Brandon Jennings. I thought he would be good."

Those statements are just foolish as most people should be able to see. He is not the ROY, but he should be at least top 4 IMO.

[BrewCityBBQ]

I think Evans will win ROY. He is putting up the best statistics and thats all that matters for the ROY award, sadly. For the Bucks I'd take Jennings out of the three. He fits the team better and is the only true point guard. I'd rather have him running my team than any other rookie point guard this year. People don't see the winning attitude and work ethic that he brings to this team. He fits this Bucks team and is a very big reason why they're in the playoff race. Some of you don't look past the cockiness and thats fine its your opinion.