Did Duncan Have Worst Cast Ever For 3+ Championship Team?

[Bucksfans1and2]

Technically, I guess. Tim is a great, great player. But with the possible exception of 03 -- when they had a lot of good, but very young players -- it wasn't like he was dragging a bunch of stiffs on his back.

David Robinson was no longer the Admiral by the time Duncan showed up, but he was still giving them 16/10 with a couple of blocks in 99. Plus, you had some really nice veterans like Johnson, Elliott and Elie. It wasn't an accident that team was one of the best defensive teams in history.

In 05, Ginobili might have been their best player in the playoffs. In 07, Parker won the Finals MVP. The two have made four All-Star teams between them, and it undoubtedly would have been more if not for health problems and Manu's diminished role with the Spurs. Either way, they were easily among the best backcourts in basketball during each of those title runs.

Then you have Bowen, one of the most decorated perimeter defenders in history, a solid cast of role players like Horry and Brent Barry, and a first-class organization run by Gregg Popovich, a first-ballot Hall of Famer, and R.C. Buford.

So as much credit as I give Tim, I never, ever felt like he was going to battle with second-rate support. Far from it, in fact.

Thank you for saying what I was trying to say only so much clearer.

[Sephiroth]

1999 - Spurs played a crappy Knicks team.
2003 - Spurs played a crappy Nets team.
2005 - Spurs played a good Detriot team.
2007 - Spurs played a crappy Cavs team.

Spurs had terrible competition.

And yes, Duncan has 4 Championships, not 3, for those who can't remember.

[Sedale Threatt]

Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili have 2 combined All-NBA teams and BOTH of those honors came AFTER the 4 rings.

James Worthy only made two All-NBA teams -- both thirds, and both coming after Showtime won its last championship. But nobody would ever question that he wasn't an elite player well before that. So I'm not sure how valid that measure is.

[_BBIB_]

1999 - Spurs played a crappy Knicks team.
2003 - Spurs played a crappy Nets team.
2005 - Spurs played a good Detriot team.
2007 - Spurs played a crappy Cavs team.

Spurs had terrible competition.

And yes, Duncan has 4 Championships, not 3, for those who can't remember.

Yeah but you can do the same for the Lakers if you only include the championship game.

The East was weak in the 2000s. That's pretty much established.

[_BBIB_]

Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili have 2 combined All-NBA teams and BOTH of those honors came AFTER the 4 rings.

James Worthy only made two All-NBA teams -- both thirds, and both coming after Showtime won its last championship. But nobody would ever question that he wasn't an elite player well before that. So I'm not sure how valid that measure is.

He also made 7 all-star games which is more than any of Duncan's teammates have made combined since he took over as a starter during their championship run. In fact it's the same total number period up to the present for Duncan's Spurs.

Not to mention we REALLY don't want to compare 1b/2nd option of that team to the Spurs do we?

Heck even last year's Lakers team that won a championship had a better 2nd option than anything Duncan ever had on a championship team.

[Bucs80]

Most likely.... I mean most teams that have won 3 Championships in a 5 year span have the talent. But the Spurs were never exactly the favorites in any of those years.

Plus Robinson couldn't be an all-star in 99... Because there was no all-star game that year.

[Sedale Threatt]

Everybody had poor competition. The Lakers only ever had to beat one great team on any of their title runs. Portland in 00, San Antonio in 01, Sacramento in 02. Considering how badly the Lakers spanked them, I'm not even sure if the Spurs qualify.

[Bucs80]

1999 - Spurs played a crappy Knicks team.
2003 - Spurs played a crappy Nets team.
2005 - Spurs played a good Detriot team.
2007 - Spurs played a crappy Cavs team.

Spurs had terrible competition.

And yes, Duncan has 4 Championships, not 3, for those who can't remember.

Lakers vs. Pacers
Lakers vs. Nets
Lakers vs. Sixers

I think you forgot how bad the east was.

[_BBIB_]

Most likely.... I mean most teams that have won 3 Championships in a 5 year span have the talent. But the Spurs were never exactly the favorites in any of those years.

Plus Robinson couldn't be an all-star in 99... Because there was no all-star game that year.

Yeah and I stand corrected on Robinson not being an above average to elite talent that year. 16/10 doesn't look great next to Shaq but compared to hte rest of the league, David Robinson had pretty dang good numbers that year.

So ok I guess I can't say all 4 years he didn't have an elite teammate.

But 3 out of 4 ain't bad

And if we discount these accomplishments because of the competition might as well discount the whole 2000s.

Don't foget who they had to beat along the way like the Lakers in 2003, or even in the Finals in 2005 let's not lose sight of the fact that they beat a Pistons team that was going for back to back titles after breaking up the Shaq/Kobe duo.

[Sedale Threatt]

He also made 7 all-star games which is more than any of Duncan's teammates have made combined since he took over as a starter during their championship run. In fact it's the same total number period up to the present for Duncan's Spurs.

Not to mention we REALLY don't want to compare 1b/2nd option of that team to the Spurs do we?

Heck even last year's Lakers team that won a championship had a better 2nd option than anything Duncan ever had on a championship team.

No, I was just tossing that out for perspective. All-NBA teams don't necessarily tell the whole story. Besides, by the time he's done, Parker might have that many.

And I would dispute, very strongly, that the Duncan never had a better 2nd option than Pau Gasol. You must have forgotten what Manu Ginibili did in the 05 playoffs. Plus, it wasn't like Parker circa 06-09 was a stiff.

[Sedale Threatt]

So ok I guess I can't say all 4 years he didn't have an elite teammate.

But 3 out of 4 ain't bad.

Again, how do 05 All-Star Manu Ginibili, 07 All-Star Tony Parker, and 05/07 All-Defense first teamer Bruce Bowen not qualify as elite?

[Chronz]

I will never forget that run in 03, his 2nd best player did everything he could to lose, luckily what the spurs lacked in talent they made up for with veteran depth. When TP sucked Speedy would do well, every series had a hero/x factor, remember Kerr vs Dallas. Bowen was in his prime, Manu was an up and comer, Jacko had his head on straight, D-Rob was heroic. And then there was Duncan 25-15-5 for the playoffs, that was elite.

But lets not forget that was the year the contenders were dropping like flies, Dirk,C-Webb both out. The Lakers still had Shaqobe, but as Shaq aged and Kobe couldnt pick up the slack the drop off in their role players made the difference. 2 players cant win you a series and without Fox/Deavon and Horry playing a role well beyond his abilities, they lacked the talent to compete.

[Basileus777]

2003 was the exception. In every other title run, Duncan had a supporting cast that was just as good as the teams he was playing against in the playoffs. Measure his supporting talent against the competition, not teams from a different era that he didn't have to play.

[_BBIB_]

Again, how do 05 All-Star Manu Ginibili, 07 All-Star Tony Parker, and 05/07 All-Defense first teamer Bruce Bowen not qualify as elite?

In comparison to other teams that have won 3+ titles though.

Those teams had top 5-10 in the entire NBA 2nd options. Even for the Bulls dynasty where many say there was the biggest differential between 1st and 2nd option, Pippen was still a top 10-15 player in the league statistically over that span.

What did Duncan have? Maybe top 30 over the course of 1999 to 2007.

[Bomb_First]

1999 - Spurs played a crappy Knicks team.
2003 - Spurs played a crappy Nets team.
2005 - Spurs played a good Detriot team.
2007 - Spurs played a crappy Cavs team.

Spurs had terrible competition.

And yes, Duncan has 4 Championships, not 3, for those who can't remember.

The 05 Pistons were a better team than any Finals team the Lakers beat during last 10-11 years.

[ThreeYearPlan]

Manu was the 2nd best sg in the league from 05-07, how is that not elite?

[_BBIB_]

2003 was the exception. In every other title run, Duncan had a supporting cast that was just as good as the teams he was playing against in the playoffs. Measure his supporting talent against the competition, not teams from a different era that he didn't have to play.

I don't know how you can possibly say that

2007 Suns- Amare/Nash/Marion/Barbosa/Bell etc etc
2007 Jazz- Deron Williams/Carlos Boozer/Mehmet Okur/ Derek Fisher/ AK 47

2005 Detroit Pistons (who won the title breaking up Lakers dynasty previous year)
2005 Suns- Amare/Nash/Marion/Joe Johnson/Quentin Richardson/Barbosa

1999 Lakers- Shaq/Kobe/Glen Rice/Eddie Jones/Rick Fox

Even the 1999 Knicks- Latrell Sprewell/ALlan Houston/Larry Johnson/Marcus Camby/Patrick Ewing


Almost all those teams had more talent and in most cases better records as well

[Basileus777]

Manu was the 2nd best sg in the league from 05-07, how is that not elite?

Not really. Wade and Carter were better.

[_BBIB_]

Manu was the 2nd best sg in the league from 05-07, how is that not elite?

Not really. Wade and Carter were better.

Exactly. DWade, Vince, Kobe, and even Gilbert Arenas all say hi

[Chronz]

2003 was the exception. In every other title run, Duncan had a supporting cast that was just as good as the teams he was playing against in the playoffs. Measure his supporting talent against the competition, not teams from a different era that he didn't have to play.

I don't know how you can possibly say that

2007 Suns- Amare/Nash/Marion/Barbosa/Bell etc etc
2007 Jazz- Deron Williams/Carlos Boozer/Mehmet Okur/ Derek Fisher/ AK 47

2005 Detroit Pistons (who won the title breaking up Lakers dynasty previous year)
2005 Suns- Amare/Nash/Marion/Joe Johnson/Quentin Richardson/Barbosa

1999 Lakers- Shaq/Kobe/Glen Rice/Eddie Jones/Rick Fox

Even the 1999 Knicks- Latrell Sprewell/ALlan Houston/Larry Johnson/Marcus Camby/Patrick Ewing


Almost all those teams had more talent and in most cases better records as well

Dude are you just reading roster sheets or did you watch or atleast analyze those cases. LJ was done Ewing wasnt even available. Glen Rice and Eddie Jones were traded for eachother IIRC, Suns lost JJ. Yes they beat some quality teams but after 03 he had some quality teammates. 03 was the one year and you look at the team and you dont really think championship material but that was also the year injuries decimated the playoffs.