2023-24 NBA Season Discussion

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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2161 » by Colbinii » Wed Apr 17, 2024 10:28 pm

falcolombardi wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:
He is actually not alone, most fanbases have been wishing to facr the thunder because young/first time teams are assumed to be fraudulent until proven otherwise

In the numbera the 57 win/+ 7 srs thunder are not a weak #1 at all, but we are also a core that has zero playoff experience (amd shai only has his rookie/sophomore seasons before he broke out) so we are on a "prove you are real" status


My rationale of picking teams over Oklahoma City has nothing to do with playoff experience.

I think they are one of the smallest team in the NBA Playoffs and I don't trust their offense outside of Shai minutes.


What teams do you trust outside their best player minutes to a larger degree?


Minnesota, Clippers, Lakers in the West with Dallas/Denver being comparable. Both Dallas and Denver have good size on their roster though.
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2162 » by Peregrine01 » Wed Apr 17, 2024 11:53 pm

I got a very strong feeling that Miami takes this game.
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2163 » by GSP » Thu Apr 18, 2024 12:24 am

Embiid never beating the playoff dropper allegations. They're not even allegations anymore he should be convicted. Legit argument for worst playoff dropper and elimination game player ever for an Mvp top 5 player.
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2164 » by trex_8063 » Thu Apr 18, 2024 12:53 am

Texas Chuck wrote:
70sFan wrote:No love for Zion postseasin debut? He looked very impressive.

Any update on his health? Will he play in the 2nd play-in game?


Eh. It was the story of Zion. Unstoppable physical scorer, but injuries always going to stop him. And that one was so weird. Alvarado kept dying and kept getting back into the fight. Zion just left and never came back and all reports were he was moving fine after the game. Doesn't mean he's not legit injured and him not finishing that game wasn't right, but it has strong Derrick Rose vibes--all I'm about is me and my money.


This is a little out of thin air, don't you think? Maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

I mean, we know [and he knows] he's had injury issues fairly persistently; so when something hurts, he really SHOULD listen to his body.
And this wasn't a do or die situation for the Pels; it's not an elimination game (they can still win the second play-in game and makes the playoffs)......given his injury history, would it have been wise to continue in last night's game if he wasn't absolutely SURE he was good to go?

idk, I just think some caution is probably called for in his circumstance.
And as far as Alvarado......I didn't get to see enough of the game to know which plays your talking about him "dying", but appearances can be deceiving; and also Jose knows he's not anywhere near the asset that Zion is (and won't be protected in the same way).


Let's just see where this goes before we cast aspersions, is all I'm sayin'.
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2165 » by eminence » Thu Apr 18, 2024 1:23 am

Batum, just as we all expected.
I bought a boat.
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2166 » by tsherkin » Thu Apr 18, 2024 1:29 am

eminence wrote:Batum, just as we all expected.


Right?
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2167 » by Lebronnygoat » Thu Apr 18, 2024 1:31 am

Embid is one of the worst postseason translators of his elite regular season status. Just wow.
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2168 » by tsherkin » Thu Apr 18, 2024 1:36 am

Lebronnygoat wrote:Embid is one of the worst postseason translators of his elite regular season status. Just wow.


This 4th quarter is perhaps not the moment for that comment, lol.
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2169 » by GSP » Thu Apr 18, 2024 1:37 am

In a game w/ Embiid, Jimmy, Bam, Maxey....................Nicolas Batum has been the most impactful player on the floor

what a time........one of the elite role players of this era i remember when he was on those Portland teams
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2170 » by Lebronnygoat » Thu Apr 18, 2024 1:52 am

tsherkin wrote:
Lebronnygoat wrote:Embid is one of the worst postseason translators of his elite regular season status. Just wow.


This 4th quarter is perhaps not the moment for that comment, lol.

The first 45 minutes matter too. Against a crippling Miami team without Duncan, Terry, Josh rich and an injured Jimmy, playing like how he did, even overall and not nitpicking the 45 minutes (94% of a game) he still translated very poorly and played poor.
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2171 » by tsherkin » Thu Apr 18, 2024 2:00 am

Lebronnygoat wrote:
tsherkin wrote:
Lebronnygoat wrote:Embid is one of the worst postseason translators of his elite regular season status. Just wow.


This 4th quarter is perhaps not the moment for that comment, lol.

The first 45 minutes matter too. Against a crippling Miami team without Duncan, Terry, Josh rich and an injured Jimmy, playing like how he did, even overall and not nitpicking the 45 minutes (94% of a game) he still translated very poorly and played poor.


Mmmm, 7th game after a 29-game absence, missed 2 of the 4 leading into this one and you want to treat him like he's any kind of healthy?

That's telling, particularly since he posted 23/15/5 and had a strong end to the game when it was close in the 4th. Yeah, he didn't shoot well, but that happens. Would you have crucified MJ for shooting 6/19 and 5/19 in Games 4 and 6 of the 1996 Finals en route to the win?

How about 9/22 (40.9%), 11/27 (40.7%) and 15/35 (42.9%) in games 3, 4 and 6 in 1997? Or that 9/26 (34.6%) in the Game 5 loss in the 98 Finals? Or the 15/35 he shot in Game 6?

C'mon, man. Gotta give a dude his laurels when they are appropriate.
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2172 » by Colbinii » Thu Apr 18, 2024 3:21 am

Lebronnygoat wrote:
tsherkin wrote:
Lebronnygoat wrote:Embid is one of the worst postseason translators of his elite regular season status. Just wow.


This 4th quarter is perhaps not the moment for that comment, lol.

The first 45 minutes matter too. Against a crippling Miami team without Duncan, Terry, Josh rich and an injured Jimmy, playing like how he did, even overall and not nitpicking the 45 minutes (94% of a game) he still translated very poorly and played poor.


You have a tendency to explain-away struggles of a player you have a preference for with deep-dive excuses while you do the inverse of player's you aren't fond of by providing other context to weaken their high level of play.

It's called Mental Gymnastics, and you are the Gabby Douglas of the field.
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2173 » by Lebronnygoat » Thu Apr 18, 2024 3:24 am

tsherkin wrote:
Lebronnygoat wrote:
tsherkin wrote:
This 4th quarter is perhaps not the moment for that comment, lol.

The first 45 minutes matter too. Against a crippling Miami team without Duncan, Terry, Josh rich and an injured Jimmy, playing like how he did, even overall and not nitpicking the 45 minutes (94% of a game) he still translated very poorly and played poor.


Mmmm, 7th game after a 29-game absence, missed 2 of the 4 leading into this one and you want to treat him like he's any kind of healthy?

That's telling, particularly since he posted 23/15/5 and had a strong end to the game when it was close in the 4th. Yeah, he didn't shoot well, but that happens. Would you have crucified MJ for shooting 6/19 and 5/19 in Games 4 and 6 of the 1996 Finals en route to the win?

How about 9/22 (40.9%), 11/27 (40.7%) and 15/35 (42.9%) in games 3, 4 and 6 in 1997? Or that 9/26 (34.6%) in the Game 5 loss in the 98 Finals? Or the 15/35 he shot in Game 6?

C'mon, man. Gotta give a dude his laurels when they are appropriate.


Embid averaged 32/10/5, on his usual efficiency in the last 5 games before the play ins.

Is that a question? MJ played bad in those 1996 games, and certainly didn’t do any late game performances like at least Embid did today. I mean what do you want me to say about MJ in 1997? He was more efficient than Embid and was scoring mid-sometimes high 30’s in those games unlike Embid. Certainly MJ wasn’t the same at all as he used to be or the goat lvl player in the last 3 years, though, in 1998 actually is more impressive than 97 Jordan In totality, and 96 Jordan in the finals.
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2174 » by Lebronnygoat » Thu Apr 18, 2024 3:26 am

Colbinii wrote:
Lebronnygoat wrote:
tsherkin wrote:
This 4th quarter is perhaps not the moment for that comment, lol.

The first 45 minutes matter too. Against a crippling Miami team without Duncan, Terry, Josh rich and an injured Jimmy, playing like how he did, even overall and not nitpicking the 45 minutes (94% of a game) he still translated very poorly and played poor.


You have a tendency to explain-away struggles of a player you have a preference for with deep-dive excuses while you do the inverse of player's you aren't fond of by providing other context to weaken their high level of play.

It's called Mental Gymnastics, and you are the Gabby Douglas of the field.


Tell me, you’re not BACK, after averaging 32/10/5 the last 5 games? Now, if I were to use Trae Young today vs the Bulls as a point against him, you’re completely right it’s mental gymnastics and a horrible argument. But it’s not the same scenario.
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2175 » by tsherkin » Thu Apr 18, 2024 9:00 am

Lebronnygoat wrote:Embid averaged 32/10/5, on his usual efficiency in the last 5 games before the play ins.

Is that a question? MJ played bad in those 1996 games, and certainly didn’t do any late game performances like at least Embid did today. I mean what do you want me to say about MJ in 1997? He was more efficient than Embid and was scoring mid-sometimes high 30’s in those games unlike Embid. Certainly MJ wasn’t the same at all as he used to be or the goat lvl player in the last 3 years, though, in 1998 actually is more impressive than 97 Jordan In totality, and 96 Jordan in the finals.


1) He shot under 50% in 3 of the 4 games he played after returning from his 29-game absence, and played under 30 minutes per game in two of them. He was 11/25 for 29 points in the second game. He also played 38 minutes, which is a lot, and the most he's played since January 16th. And yes, Jordan shot in volume; that's what he did, for good or for ill. Embiid did not need to shoot in volume, particularly whilst not shooting well.

2) He was at 53.7% TS last night despite shooting 35.3% from the field. Jordan was actually at 53.2% TS in the 97 Finals, 53.8% in the 96 Finals and 51.6% TS in the 1998 Finals. Fairly similar efficiency, as it happens.

3) I don't think 98 was more impressive. He chucked a lot and both teams slowed the game down quite a bit, leaving it something of a disgusting grind-fest. He also had 2 guys scoring 15+ ppg for him, and Malone had one guy managing double-digit PPG with Hornacek at 10.7 ppg. Support mattered. And Chicago smashed the offensive glass against Utah.

EDIT:

4) Forgot to mention, Jordan was below playoff league average TS% during the 98 Finals, FWIW. 52.9% TS was average during the playoffs in 98. So that was -1.3% rTS, FWIW. He shot a lot. He didn't score well. The series was ugly-as, so it worked out. His low turnover rate helped a lot, but man, he was not performing well by any standard. He was old, Pippen wasn't playing well, Utah was a very good defense... And because it was before the 24/7 coverage era, and because it was Jordan, no one wanted to say anything. There are reasons to justify a little bit of a rougher performance, right?

But that's my point. The reasons aren't the same, but the idea of their presence remains. Embiid had a rough night. They happen. We've grown into the habit of crucifying people every time they do, but he came up when it counted in the 4th (kind of like 2011 Dirk, actually) and his health remains in some doubt. And as Ohayo astutely noted, he was quite relevant on D.
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2176 » by OhayoKD » Thu Apr 18, 2024 9:11 am

tsherkin wrote:
Lebronnygoat wrote:Embid averaged 32/10/5, on his usual efficiency in the last 5 games before the play ins.

Is that a question? MJ played bad in those 1996 games, and certainly didn’t do any late game performances like at least Embid did today. I mean what do you want me to say about MJ in 1997? He was more efficient than Embid and was scoring mid-sometimes high 30’s in those games unlike Embid. Certainly MJ wasn’t the same at all as he used to be or the goat lvl player in the last 3 years, though, in 1998 actually is more impressive than 97 Jordan In totality, and 96 Jordan in the finals.


1) He shot under 50% in 3 of the 4 games he played after returning from his 29-game absence, and played under 30 minutes per game in two of them. He was 11/25 for 29 points in the second game. He also played 38 minutes, which is a lot, and the most he's played since January 16th. And yes, Jordan shot in volume; that's what he did, for good or for ill. Embiid did not need to shoot in volume, particularly whilst not shooting well.

2) He was at 53.7% TS last night despite shooting 35.3% from the field. Jordan was actually at 53.2% TS in the 97 Finals, 53.8% in the 96 Finals and 51.6% TS in the 1998 Finals. Fairly similar efficiency, as it happens.

3) I don't think 98 was more impressive. He chucked a lot and both teams slowed the game down quite a bit, leaving it something of a disgusting grind-fest. He also had 2 guys scoring 15+ ppg for him, and Malone had one guy managing double-digit PPG with Hornacek at 10.7 ppg. Support mattered. And Chicago smashed the offensive glass against Utah.

Will just add here, whatever you want to say about Embid's offense, Embid, a top 2 paint-protector who the Sixers were 7 points worse without, should be getting some credit defensively, particularly with what he did to Bam.
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2177 » by tsherkin » Thu Apr 18, 2024 9:35 am

OhayoKD wrote:Will just add here, whatever you want to say about Embid's offense, Embid, a top 2 paint-protector who the Sixers were 7 points worse without, should be getting some credit defensively, particularly with what he did to Bam.


Yes, that's true, we do tend to over-focus on offense with him because his RS scoring volume tends to draw a lot of attention. He did a lot of good things that game even while shooting poorly, absolutely.
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2178 » by TheGOATRises007 » Thu Apr 18, 2024 9:37 am

Credit to Embiid defensively, but not specifically for what he did to Bam. Bam's not a good offensive player and was inefficient all season. Even had a negative on-off.
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2179 » by 70sFan » Thu Apr 18, 2024 10:33 am

I understand that people as always overreact after a rough performance, but I have no idea how you can defend this Embiid performace. He was horrible for 90% of the game and no, his defense wasn't amazing outside a few stretches either.

I am happy that the Sixers advanced, I still hope for the Bucks vs Sixers matchup (far from a given). I am also not Embiid hater at all, but he played well below expectations - even taking the break into consideration. It's not about his weak efficiency, but he was sloppy with his decision making, zones made him very passive and he got bailed out by refs in a few occassions again. Making Bam irrelevant on offense isn't a huge achievement, Bam is usually useless against bigger opponents he can't dominate physically.

If Joel disappoints during this run overall, it would be really tough to defend him at this point.
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Re: 2023-24 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2180 » by falcolombardi » Thu Apr 18, 2024 12:27 pm

In a vacuum i dont think embiid was bad, he still hit key shots and created shots with his gravity

But the issue is that he was too easily limited to be a decoy by heat defense

I dont know if the issue was tactical or mental but nurse and embiid need to think through what to do next time a team plays a tough zone on him like this

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