The LeBron James- 23-24 NBA Playoffs & Off-Season Thread -(NO PERSONAL ATTACKS & BAITING)

[Heej]

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You could tell how emotional LeBron was getting during that pod. He's legitimately still upset at the way that coaching staff performed. Voice shaking and getting higher and s*** lol

[AEnigma]

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You could tell how emotional LeBron was getting during that pod. He's legitimately still upset at the way that coaching staff performed. Voice shaking and getting higher and s*** lol

Probably the first series since 2011 where he can rightly feel his team should have won, and first since 2009 where he can feel he should have won.

Easy enough to dismiss it in the sense they were almost certainly not winning the title regardless, but been over a decade since he was let down over an entire series like that (with 2018 Game 1 and the injury circumstances of 2015 being their own separate sour notes).

The respect he showed toward the team-building on the Wolves also made for an implicitly bitter point of contrast: last time the Lakers had that much “length”, they won a title… and they also had the opportunity to specifically go for Conley too.

[Ainosterhaspie]

I was thinking about LeBron's mind-boggling longevity and statistical accumulation and wondered how many players in the history of the league have matched half his total point, rebounds and assists. If I counted right, that number is 10.

The numbers we're looking at are 20,237 points, 5,504 assists, and 5,592 rebounds. Here are the players who have more in each category and the numbers in the category LeBron is closest to catching.

Jordan: 5633 Assists
Kareem: 5660 Assists
Bird: 5695 Assists
Havlicek: 6114 Assists
Drexler: 6125 Assists
Kobe: 6306 Assists
Paul: 5,682 Rebounds*
Harden: 6017 Rebounds*

*Still active so this number will rise before LeBron catches it.

Players he can't pass.

Oscar Robertson: 26,710 points, 9887 assists, 7804 rebounds.
Westbrook: 25,211 points, 9468 assists, 8307 rebounds.

He needs 382 assists to double up Jordan, Kareem and Bird in assists. That's doable next season. He needs 180 rebounds to double up Paul's current rebounds total, but given how many rebounds Paul and James have the last couple seasons, it's not likely James passes Paul unless Paul retires a year before James or there is a big shift in their totals. Passing these four seems reasonably probable.

He needs 1604 Assists to double up on Kobe, Drexler and Havlicek. That is not impossible, but very unlikely. He would need to average 535 assists for the next three seasons to do that. He did have more than that this year, still hard to see him passing that in the next three though. He has a slim chance of doubling up Harden's rebounds if Harden retires two years before him. That seems unlikely though.

When James retires, there will probably be no more than 7 players who he hasn't doubled up on in at least one of those three categories. There is a slim chance that that number will be just two. My guess is he passes Paul, Drexler and Havlicek leaving just four players he hasn't doubled up on in at least one category.

Luka and Jokic will need at least four year to not be doubled up in at least one category and that's if LeBron were to retire right now.

One last note on this more broadly. By the end of next season we can expect that half his career point total and half his career assist total will still be enough to qualify as top 50 all time in both those categories.

[Ian Scuffling]

Sheer craziness in regards to those stats, Ainosterhaspie. Just unbelievable.

[Kingdibs19]

Lebron 10 years ago would tear Denver to shreds.

[Run DLC]

Lebron 10 years ago would tear Denver to shreds.

Not even that, that 2018 version of LeBron was good enough to do that. The Lakers needed more size to compete with the Nuggets and until they find a way to address that situation, they’ll never get over the hump.

[Cavsfansince84]

Lebron 10 years ago would tear Denver to shreds.

More so though, even if he beats them in 5 we'd just hear how they have no interior defense so its not much of an accomplishment.

[Heej]

Lebron 10 years ago would tear Denver to shreds.

Not even that, that 2018 version of LeBron was good enough to do that. The Lakers needed more size to compete with the Nuggets and until they find a way to address that situation, they’ll never get over the hump.

Rui plays so small for his size man it's awful

[ardee]

Lebron 10 years ago would tear Denver to shreds.

Not even that, that 2018 version of LeBron was good enough to do that. The Lakers needed more size to compete with the Nuggets and until they find a way to address that situation, they’ll never get over the hump.

CURRENT LeBron destroyed them on an individual level. He was letdown by poor coaching and individual mistakes by a few teammates.

He scored on more volume and efficiency in this series than he did in 2020 against a worse Nuggets team.

(not saying he's better than he was back then but he was absolutely good enough to beat Denver under slightly different circumstances)

[TroubleS0me]

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[GSP]

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Its wild how comfortable other great players, Hofers and even players today are in disrespecting Bron. Its honestly crazy as big as his fanbase is the other side is so loud too

[Ian Scuffling]

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Heard that and thought to myself, "Reggie Miller? Pathetic loser that he is." And I'm all for honor, but to accept blame that wasn't your's to accept is stupid. Anthony didn't play well that game and he called himself out. When, Lebron has had a poor game (as rare as that is, especially in the playoffs), I've heard him say the same damn thing. The one caveat is the entire 2011 Finals against the Mavericks. Still not sure what happened there

[Ian Scuffling]

But, what an odd series this Nuggets/Wolves series has become. Home teams losing and not looking very good at all, except for Edwards last night as he was fantastic. Reminded me of early Lebron days with the Cavs. This is why it is a TEAM game. KAT was garbage, too.

[tsherkin]

But, what an odd series this Nuggets/Wolves series has become. Home teams losing and not looking very good at all, except for Edwards last night as he was fantastic. Reminded me of early Lebron days with the Cavs. This is why it is a TEAM game. KAT was garbage, too.

It's a point worth repeating, right? Team play wins titles. You don't solo your way to a title, even if the distribution of All-NBA teams and the like makes it seem that way. Not-Ant shot just over 40% from the field in that most recent game. 23/57 (40.4%). That isn't gonna get it done, regardless of their 4th quarter. The 2nd really killed them. One quarter where you go down that much can really pinch you for the rest of a game.

We'll see how it goes from here on out: whole new series now.

[Ainosterhaspie]

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Heard that and thought to myself, "Reggie Miller? Pathetic loser that he is." And I'm all for honor, but to accept blame that wasn't your's to accept is stupid. Anthony didn't play well that game and he called himself out. When, Lebron has had a poor game (as rare as that is, especially in the playoffs), I've heard him say the same damn thing. The one caveat is the entire 2011 Finals against the Mavericks. Still not sure what happened there

One of the Mind the Game episodes, he says he played terrible in the 2011 finals. Doesn't say why, but he acknowledges his poor play.
--
As to Reggie's comment, a player can take all the responsibility they want to, whatever that means, it's it's little more than performative. It doesn't fix underlying problems. If anything, it's counterproductive if it's letting others slide for their failures.

2011 is a good example. LeBron needed to be better. Wade needed to get out of the way. Spoelstra needed to be better. The roster needed more depth. They all acknowledge all of these things needing fixes. They would not have won the titles they did without access the board improvements. LeBron could have spent every single day taking responsibility and working to fix his flaws, and it would not have been enough without the rest.

The older players really are obsessed with projecting an idealized image of what a player should be mentally, and while there is some wisdom in what they value, it's only a small part of the picture. They miss the rest of the picture all too often.

[Ian Scuffling]

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Heard that and thought to myself, "Reggie Miller? Pathetic loser that he is." And I'm all for honor, but to accept blame that wasn't your's to accept is stupid. Anthony didn't play well that game and he called himself out. When, Lebron has had a poor game (as rare as that is, especially in the playoffs), I've heard him say the same damn thing. The one caveat is the entire 2011 Finals against the Mavericks. Still not sure what happened there

One of the Mind the Game episodes, he says he played terrible in the 2011 finals. Doesn't say why, but he acknowledges his poor play.

Ok, haven't seen or heard that. Damn, would I love to know what was going through his head that series. My own opinion, and it's just that an opinion, is that I'm not sure he was comfortable taking over the team. He seems to be a very friendly guy, so maybe he was weary of taking over Wade's team? I don't know. It's just the only thing that makes any sense to me.

[Ainosterhaspie]

I think that was a core problem, and had he been more assertive, that could have created longer term problems of tensions with Wade. One thing that changed after that series is that Wade agreed James needed to do his thing instead of trying to make sure Wade was getting fed. If they win with James taking touches from Wade, maybe Wade is resentful and they fail the next seasons because of that.

It was bigger than that though. James did have holes in his game that needed to be fixed and to his credit, he worked in them in the off-season and leveled up. 2012 and after James was a much more complete player than pre-2012 James. He finally learned he needed more than his freak physical gifts to win. He added to his skill set and started mastering the mental side of the game too. Doc Rivers talks about James calling out their sets in a pre-season game and chatting with an assistant that they were in trouble because Miami James was becoming a student of the game in a way that first stint Cleveland James never was.

I think James is also a more deliberate player than players like Jordan and Kobe who play more instinctually. He couldn't find an efficient way to attack the Mavericks defense and basically got stuck on the loading screen. The 2015 finals is a good demonstration that after 2011 he changed his approach. He wasn't efficient there, but he relentlessly attacked anyway making it a far more competitive series than it should have been.

I do think the 2011 loss, as painful as it is, was a necessary catalyst fornJames and the Heat to improve, and that without it, both would have fallen far shorter of maximizing their potential.

[Ainosterhaspie]

At :45. "I played like ****."
At 1:25. "...in order for us to reach our full potential, one, I had to be **** 10 times better than I was in that previous June finals."
At 2:38. "I told myself, the way I played, unacceptable."
At 11:14. JJ and James both talking. "...2011 is a great example of that. I wasn't at my best. You weren't your best. And we lost. If I play anything like I did in Eastern Conference Finals, we win."

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[Ian Scuffling]

At :45. "I played like ****."
At 1:25. "...in order for us to reach our full potential, one, I had to be **** 10 times better than I was in that previous June finals."
At 2:38. "I told myself, the way I played, unacceptable."
At 11:14. JJ and James both talking. "...2011 is a great example of that. I wasn't at my best. You weren't your best. And we lost. If I play anything like I did in Eastern Conference Finals, we win."

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Thank you. So, per usual, Reggie Miller was demonstrating his ignorance on a topic. Good stuff.

[TroubleS0me]

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