Jeremy Lamb vs Dion Waiters AKA our sg's suck

[spearsy23]

OKC is in a position where roster spots are at a premium, it seems obvious that Presti values Lamb less than Waiters. This seems fairly inconceivable to me (and most other OKC fans), but Waiters does have some staunch supporters. The main argument for waiters seems to be in the form of raw ppg and 'skillset' (mainly he handles the ball better and can run some PG), but he mainly chucks up bad shots and misses easy ones. The argument for Lamb is that in less opportunity he has been better in almost every way statistically, unfortunately he often seems to lose confidence and go on lengthy cold streaks.

If it came down to keeping one or the other which would you keep and how do you see them developing?

[bondom34]

http://bkref.com/tiny/ahGkb

Career stats

[The High Cyde]

"Ball hard D-Waiters"

Lamb. You keep him.

[Jaivl]

Lamb. Waiters' a good kid by all accounts, but he is really bad on the court.

[bondom34]

Bump.

And I didn't vote FYI.

[bondom34]

Oh, and sorry, but here's the conversation this spurred from:

1. No, I'm showing he's been bad at multiple things, TS is one. He's also a poor finisher, doesn't look for open teammates, overshoots, has poor shot selection, and isn't very good defensively, thoguh I haven't focused on that here.

So you're highlighting 2 things? 2 Advanced stats, that even when combined or used alone, don't at all represent the player and how good or bad they are or can be?
Again, and i edited my last post so you might not have seen it...

On that list btw, Waiters ( at 40 ) is ahead of Monta Ellis, who im sure you think sucks, and yes he is a split guard. Henderson, Bledsoe, Walker, Green... oh look at that, Lamb (who is at 96), and JR Smith who is at 100.... I guess Lamb is really another JR Smith.

But when i see a list with Parker, JJ, Monta, Richardson, Rondo, Stuckey, etc. and youre saying "Here, Waiters fits in this group right here".... how in the holy hell do you expect me to come to the conclusion that he is a bad player? Does that actually make sense to you? All you've done is shown some negative aspects of his game and if youre being honest and then showing this link, you'd come to the conclusion that those negative aspects dont actually say anything overall of the player.Unless of course you're saying that Monta Ellis sucks, Tony Parker sucks, Joe johnson sucks, etc.
This is not a good way to prove your point. If anything, its just backing up everything ive been saying. I get what youre saying, but given the list you just provided, it should show you that what youre saying is not an indicator for anything. There is zero consistency on that list, we cant at all draw any conclusion, except for that its common among players.

2. A guard isn't a guard. I dont expect a guy like John Wall to do the same things as a guy like Kyle Korver, but they're both guards. You don't take a guy like Wall, who's main criticism is he can't shoot, and use him as an example when Waiters does nothing Wall does well.

A guard is a guard. The skill sets are the same, just different focuses depending on system and coach. If you have Phil, you need your shooting guard to do what you expect a point guard to do. And a point guard (paxton, skiles, fisher, etc) to do what Korver does.
They are interchangeable positions and the majority of point guards on that list you provided, also spend time at the 2. Because again, its the same required skill set.
Your little Wall and Waiters thing is just a comparison between players, not positions. Even with the Cavs, Waiters was used similar to Harden on OKC. And Harden on OKC was a 1/2. A quick scoring 2 while RWD and/or KD was on the bench for a bit, who need to handle the ball and distribute as well.

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/fea ... d-20141222

[oaktownwarriors87]

Enes Kanter. Dump that loser.

[Goudelock]

Oh, and sorry, but here's the conversation this spurred from:

1. No, I'm showing he's been bad at multiple things, TS is one. He's also a poor finisher, doesn't look for open teammates, overshoots, has poor shot selection, and isn't very good defensively, thoguh I haven't focused on that here.

So you're highlighting 2 things? 2 Advanced stats, that even when combined or used alone, don't at all represent the player and how good or bad they are or can be?
Again, and i edited my last post so you might not have seen it...

On that list btw, Waiters ( at 40 ) is ahead of Monta Ellis, who im sure you think sucks, and yes he is a split guard. Henderson, Bledsoe, Walker, Green... oh look at that, Lamb (who is at 96), and JR Smith who is at 100.... I guess Lamb is really another JR Smith.

But when i see a list with Parker, JJ, Monta, Richardson, Rondo, Stuckey, etc. and youre saying "Here, Waiters fits in this group right here".... how in the holy hell do you expect me to come to the conclusion that he is a bad player? Does that actually make sense to you? All you've done is shown some negative aspects of his game and if youre being honest and then showing this link, you'd come to the conclusion that those negative aspects dont actually say anything overall of the player.Unless of course you're saying that Monta Ellis sucks, Tony Parker sucks, Joe johnson sucks, etc.
This is not a good way to prove your point. If anything, its just backing up everything ive been saying. I get what youre saying, but given the list you just provided, it should show you that what youre saying is not an indicator for anything. There is zero consistency on that list, we cant at all draw any conclusion, except for that its common among players.

2. A guard isn't a guard. I dont expect a guy like John Wall to do the same things as a guy like Kyle Korver, but they're both guards. You don't take a guy like Wall, who's main criticism is he can't shoot, and use him as an example when Waiters does nothing Wall does well.

A guard is a guard. The skill sets are the same, just different focuses depending on system and coach. If you have Phil, you need your shooting guard to do what you expect a point guard to do. And a point guard (paxton, skiles, fisher, etc) to do what Korver does.
They are interchangeable positions and the majority of point guards on that list you provided, also spend time at the 2. Because again, its the same required skill set.
Your little Wall and Waiters thing is just a comparison between players, not positions. Even with the Cavs, Waiters was used similar to Harden on OKC. And Harden on OKC was a 1/2. A quick scoring 2 while RWD and/or KD was on the bench for a bit, who need to handle the ball and distribute as well.

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/fea ... d-20141222

Waiters may have been the worst player in the league this year (that got significant minutes), and that's including expert bricklayer Pero Antic. He chucks shots like Westbrook, but doesn't do anything else like Westbrook. Waiters can't finish at the rim to save his life, sucks from 3, plays defense with the urgency of an alpaca on weed, and still somehow thinks that he should take the same amount of shots as WB and Durant. Why Brooks played him over Lamb is mind-boggling.

[Bravenewworld]

We've spent 3 years developing Lamb. At best he has shown minimal improvements but still has basic basketball issues. Watches the ball as he dribbles, almost every time he drives left he loses control, his inconsistency is on par with JR Smith, etc. We've tried the Lamb experiment and its utterly failed, to the point where many analysts do not see him in the league after his rookie contract. You can like or dislike Waiters, but we at least know he has shown enough to warrant not being kicked out of the league after his rookie contract.

Waiters has at least shown us that in his first and second season he was capable of putting up near star numbers and that his skill set is worth at least attempting to develop. We (OKC) have had him for half a season, what we saw with Cleveland in his first two years, deserves more development then half a season. If we gave a guy like Lamb 3, its only fair that we give a guy like Waiters (who has put numbers Lamb only wishes he could) at least a couple seasons before we dismiss him and his potential.
Given his skill set and who he is working with (Westbrook, KD) its not unreasonable at all, to suggest he can vastly improve. He is only what? 22? He still has quite a way to go and there is nothing to suggest that what he has gone through is is more than young player woes.

[Illmatic12]

I've seen Waiters have some big games, he imo shows a greater desire to win and more passion (on both ends) than Lamb. I actually think he could be a decent defender eventually.

Waiters obviously needs to be reigned in offensively by Donovan but I think there's more to work with there than Lamb, who seems to want a one-way ticket out of the league.

[giberish]

None of the above.

Neither Waiters nor Lamb are close to being useful rotation players on a good team.

Roberson (as an extreme defensive specialist) and Morrow (as a shooting specialist) are both much better than either one, though OKC remains lacking in good 2-way role players.