Today's Derrick Rose vs. MVP Season of Iverson?

[X-Factor]

+1. Truth spoken.

Iverson is my favorite player of all time.

He was 5'11" of passion and fearlessness. Watching him play in person was pure magic, definitely the best live sports moment of my life. His crossover was so deceptive and so effective, players just played back two steps more than they would on anyone else. He could split double teams with a single move and was a hawk on the passing lanes.

As much as I love D-Rose and support his MVP campaign, Philly would have been NOTHING with AI during the 2000-2001 season. The bulls could be the 7th/8th seed without Rose, but the sixers would have been a lottery team for sure without the Answer.

Allen Iverson was the entire team. It's such a shame his career played out the way it did.

Well Said!

[mysticbb]

So, to get that straight, the majority in this thread thinks Iverson is the better player, because he was smaller than Rose and somewhat more stylish. He also had some sort of transcendent abilities and his team was successful in a weak conference while having the DPOY, the SMOY and the COY. Nobody disputed that Rose is the better playmaker, more efficient scorer, better rebounder, better overall defender. Well, sounds pretty convincing to me and I will change my mind and say Iverson EASILY!

[ChristinaBosh1]

I think I take Iverson NOW.

Why are you still posting?

[BossHoggin]

I think I take Iverson NOW.

+1 This guy knows his stuff he used to be a Nuggets fan.

[therealbig3]

Rose. Iverson is overrated.

[NYK 455]

Rose pretty easily. Better offensive and defensive player.

[actrived]

I think I take Iverson NOW.

+1 This guy knows his stuff he used to be a Nuggets fan.

Allen Iverson, spoken through my avatar, approves this message

[NO-KG-AI]

If Rose is so much better offensively, why are the bulls 18th on offense with substantially more offensive talent? I would love to see the Sixers sustain that 13th offensive rating without AI. They could run the offense through SIXTH MAN OF THE YEARZZZZ Aaron McKie!!

Stop pretending like rule changes don't have a lot to do with scoring efficiency, we saw old AI under these joke of perimeter defense rules, and he was more efficient and had higher volume,

Rose is not an efficient scorer, and he's low volume comparatively.

He's not some offensive dynamo, he's cut from the same aggressive mold, but he's not as talented as a pure scorer and doesn't put nearly as much pressure on a defense.

[JordansBulls]

If you are looking for humility then it is Rose.

[NYK 455]

If Rose is so much better offensively, why are the bulls 18th on offense with substantially more offensive talent? I would love to see the Sixers sustain that 13th offensive rating without AI. They could run the offense through SIXTH MAN OF THE YEARZZZZ Aaron McKie!!

Stop pretending like rule changes don't have a lot to do with scoring efficiency, we saw old AI under these joke of perimeter defense rules, and he was more efficient and had higher volume,

Rose is not an efficient scorer, and he's low volume comparatively.

He's not some offensive dynamo, he's cut from the same aggressive mold, but he's not as talented as a pure scorer and doesn't put nearly as much pressure on a defense.

I'm far from a Rose homer, and I don't even think he's top 5 in the MVP race, but the Bulls have missed Noah and Boozer for a lot of the season, and that has hurt their offense more than their defense. The Bulls Ortg is 106.6, compared to the 76ers that year, which was 103.6. And Iverson has always been a extremely inefficient player, the dude only had one year with a TS% over 54, and a couple under 50.

[slick_watts]

I'm far from a Rose homer, and I don't even think he's top 5 in the MVP race, but the Bulls have missed Noah and Boozer for a lot of the season, and that has hurt their offense more than their defense. The Bulls Ortg is 106.6, compared to the 76ers that year, which was 103.6. And Iverson has always been a extremely inefficient player.

Just FYI, you can't compare ORTG like that across eras, you should compare them relative to league average at the time to account for differences in league rules among other things.

League average ORTG this season is 107.1, in 2001 it was 103.0. So AI's team had an above average offense, while the Bulls are below average this year.

[NYK 455]

I'm far from a Rose homer, and I don't even think he's top 5 in the MVP race, but the Bulls have missed Noah and Boozer for a lot of the season, and that has hurt their offense more than their defense. The Bulls Ortg is 106.6, compared to the 76ers that year, which was 103.6. And Iverson has always been a extremely inefficient player.

Just FYI, you can't compare ORTG like that across eras, you should compare them relative to league average at the time to account for differences in league rules among other things.

League average ORTG this season is 107.1, in 2001 it was 103.0. So AI's team had an above average offense, while the Bulls are below average this year.

Fair enough, good point.

[The_Answer]

<-----------------

[AgEnT50]

you know the ANSWER to the question...

[tclg]

I think its really close

[Dark Radiance]

This is easily Iverson. Teams feared him a hell of a lot more than they do Derrick Rose. I believe he had 3 50 point games in the playoffs alone plus that 47 point game against the Lakers. Derrick Rose hasn't shown anything close to IVerson's ability to take over in big games, not to mention defences were a lot tougher back then and the pace was slower. Iverson to me had a better mid-range game in terms of being able to make tough contested jumpers, and his offensive repertoire was better. He was more skilled, which you'd expect since he's been around longer.

[X-Factor]

This is easily Iverson. Teams feared him a hell of a lot more than they do Derrick Rose. I believe he had 3 50 point games in the playoffs alone plus that 47 point game against the Lakers. Derrick Rose hasn't shown anything close to IVerson's ability to take over in big games, not to mention defences were a lot tougher back then and the pace was slower. Iverson to me had a better mid-range game in terms of being able to make tough contested jumpers, and his offensive repertoire was better. He was more skilled, which you'd expect since he's been around longer.

Seems as if someone joined RealGm just to answer this question.

[Dark Radiance]

This is easily Iverson. Teams feared him a hell of a lot more than they do Derrick Rose. I believe he had 3 50 point games in the playoffs alone plus that 47 point game against the Lakers. Derrick Rose hasn't shown anything close to IVerson's ability to take over in big games, not to mention defences were a lot tougher back then and the pace was slower. Iverson to me had a better mid-range game in terms of being able to make tough contested jumpers, and his offensive repertoire was better. He was more skilled, which you'd expect since he's been around longer.

Seems as if someone joined RealGm just to answer this question.

II've always been a member here. I just like Prosportsdaily better.

[mysticbb]

This is easily Iverson. Teams feared him a hell of a lot more than they do Derrick Rose. I believe he had 3 50 point games in the playoffs alone plus that 47 point game against the Lakers.

It were two 50+ points performances, both against the Raptors.

But well, let us check some of Iverson's games in those playoffs. How about his 10-31 performance for 33 points and the 76ers win due to their better defensive frontcourt against the Pacers? Or a 8-27 performance for 21 points, sure as hell the reason for the win against the Raptors. Or 5-27 for 15 points against the Bucks and the 76ers win? Sure as hell some examples of the bad 76ers while Iverson had to carry them, right?

Derrick Rose hasn't shown anything close to IVerson's ability to take over in big games,

Seems like someone missed Rose playoff debut against the Celtics in 2009, when he tied Abdul-Jabbar's record with 36 points. Yeah, not a big game. And this season so far? Controlling big games like the one against the Spurs? Or more recently against the Heat last night?

And it is funny how everyone seems to forget how bad the Eastern Conference was at this time. The 76ers played the -0.77 SRS Pacers in the 1st round, the 1.69 SRS Raptors in the 2nd round and the 3.13 Bucks in the ECF. Heck, Rose leading the Bulls in 2009 to 7 games vs. the 7.44 SRS Celtics is much more impressive than the 76ers needing 7 games against two teams which were way worse than the 2009 Celtics (or 2010 Cavaliers). Big games? The 76ers in 2001 had 5 big games in the playoffs, in the 1st one the Lakers underestimated Iverson, because they didn't take him seriously, in the next 4 it showed what it means to play a big game for Iverson.

The only reason for Iverson winning the MVP award in 2001 was the weak Eastern Conference, if the 76ers would have played in the West, nobody would have thought about him being the MVP. And today people are using that MVP award to justify picking Iverson in a comparison were he is the slightly worse offensive player and worse defender.

the pace was slower.

76ers in those 71 games with Iverson played on a 91.4 pace, the Bulls with Rose are playing on a 91.0 pace. Yeah, for sure the pace was slower in 2001 for Iverson. :roll:

[eyeatoma]

For people who think that Rose is better than Iverson. Watch this...

Iverson in his absolute prime. Nobody quicker, more creative on the offensive end, or worked harder to win within the game. Rose is good, but Iverson was on another stratosphere. People say they wish McGrady practiced. If Iverson practiced he probably would have won a couple of championships...

Thats the most amazing thing about him. Iverson never practiced. How many people can have a 27 ppg career average, and take their team to the finals, win an MVP, and be a 11 time allstar. There is no one in the league who had more in such a small package, like he did. Rose isn't even close to Iverson as a scorer. As a passer he is better, but Iverson is severely underrated in this department as well

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APa_9aXc4rg&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_U-WK7ey3U&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]