2023-24 NBA Season Discussion

[TheGOATRises007]

I would be stunned if the Celtics win the title

They’re winnning in 5 games

Vs the Pacers? I agree.

Vs the Wolves in all likelihood? There is no shot the Celtics are beating that team in 5 games.

[The-Power]

I would be stunned if the Celtics win the title

They’re winnning in 5 games

Vs the Pacers? I agree.

Vs the Wolves in all likelihood? There is no shot the Celtics are beating that team in 5 games.

Would you be stunned if they beat them in 6 or 7, though?

[Colbinii]

They’re winnning in 5 games

Vs the Pacers? I agree.

Vs the Wolves in all likelihood? There is no shot the Celtics are beating that team in 5 games.

Would you be stunned if they beat them in 6 or 7, though?

Right, it's definitely possible Boston dismantles Minnesota or Dallas.

[AEnigma]

This win made me believe in the Celtics more. First time we have seen this Jrue — all-star / borderline all-NBA Jrue — since last season. Bad opposing defence, sure, but if he is still capable of games like this, then it really is difficult to imagine any team adequately disrupting the Celtics’ offence four times in a series (and for as much as I like their offence, I do not think the Pacers can outgun the Celtics four times in six games).

Still, it is always frustrating when the heavy favourite sees every break go their way at the end of a game they probably should have lost.

[Colbinii]

This win made me believe in the Celtics more. First time we have seen this Jrue — all-star / borderline all-NBA Jrue — since last season. Bad opposing defence, sure, but if he is still capable of games like this, then it really is difficult to imagine any team adequately disrupting the Celtics’ offence four times in a series (and for as much as I like their offence, I do not think the Pacers can outgun the Celtics four times in six games).

Still, it is always frustrating when the heavy favourite sees every break go their way at the end of a game they probably should have lost.

Yup, one of those "They had to have this one" type games.

[tsherkin]

This win made me believe in the Celtics more. First time we have seen this Jrue — all-star / borderline all-NBA Jrue — since last season. Bad opposing defence, sure, but if he is still capable of games like this, then it really is difficult to imagine any team adequately disrupting the Celtics’ offence four times in a series (and for as much as I like their offence, I do not think the Pacers can outgun the Celtics four times in six games).

Still, it is always frustrating when the heavy favourite sees every break go their way at the end of a game they probably should have lost.

Holiday really went after Haliburton effectively.

It was a little like watching a college star going after a HS guy, or like the vets in the NBA going after a fresh rookie, you know? Scent of blood in the water and the sharks went to work. He was really, really good in this one.

Inexperience is going to be a thing for the Pacers, and conversely experience will be for the Celtics.

And in as much as I take my time with giving Tatum his flowers, he had an excellent game apart from a couple misteps. And if he keeps playing anything like that, this is over in 5 or 6. I have to think Indy will have at least one sustained outburst and take a game, but like, once Boston screwed it's head on properly and clamped down on D, this game almost felt inevitable. Boston's careless errors on O were the only reason that didn't stay true. The minute it went to OT, it was basically over.

[Statlanta]

I know this is old news and not an ElGee forum but Ben posted his video

https://youtu.be/bcf9SJWtF6A?si=bnwAOGMEbxFny2Jw

[GSP]

This win made me believe in the Celtics more. First time we have seen this Jrue — all-star / borderline all-NBA Jrue — since last season. Bad opposing defence, sure, but if he is still capable of games like this, then it really is difficult to imagine any team adequately disrupting the Celtics’ offence four times in a series (and for as much as I like their offence, I do not think the Pacers can outgun the Celtics four times in six games).

Still, it is always frustrating when the heavy favourite sees every break go their way at the end of a game they probably should have lost.

Last time Jrue has 28 was last season.... Against the Pacers when he dropped 50 lol

Their perimeter defense is horrible and Haliburton is one of the worst defensive guards in the league. Podcaster Pat Bev was the best guard on the floor in a playoff game against them and outplayed Haliburton in a game lol.

I expect Jrue to have a few more big scoring games. He is a postup and matchup nightmare for bad perimeter defenses like when we saw him crush Dame/Cj w/ Ad. But I would be shocked if he had a scoring outburst against Minny or Dallas maybe a game against Dallas.

[OhayoKD]

At this point, Mavs would probably have been my title pick given health(Luka the biggest factor, though klieber would have helped as well)

[Colbinii]

At this point, Mavs would probably have been my title pick given health(Luka the biggest factor, though klieber would have helped as well)

Yeah they're super grindy in how they play. They sort of muck up the game in a weird way but then can fall back on Luka/Kyrie to control 90% of their possessions.

Pretty hilarious how both Minnesota and Dallas have played against 3 teams now in the post-season who are better than the best team Boston has played against.

[rk2023]

I’ll own it if I’m wrong, but I would not take Boston winning the finals over either of these teams.

[tsherkin]

DAL/MIN game was wild. Sloppy play here and there, odd 3pt disparity. Ant vanished up his own behind despite shooting well from 3. Kyrie scored 24 in the first half and 6 in the second.

Just a weird one, but exciting with all the up and down and the close margin. And some of Dallas' roleplayers were exciting. Gafford and Lively, man. And McDaniels for Minny. And randomly Kyle Anderson, too, haha.

[ronnymac2]

Great game. Thought KAT played super well in the second half. I know he didn't have a great shooting night, but there were many plays where he was tasked with making something out of nothing with the shot clock winding down. Hit the huge 3 and got the important deflection in the 4th. McDaniels was a monster on both ends. No shame in Luka going off. It's Luka.

Where did DAL pick up Gafford from? What a revelation! All playoffs with the magnet hands. Young Kyrie continues to prove that basketball at the highest level is art.

PJ Washington...absolute maniac for that 50-foot pass to Jones on the inbounds.

[GSP]

Ppl so confident Wolves beat us is comedy. Their offense is mid. How do you shoot 14% better from 3 and make 13 more 3s........and lose? That pretty much never happens. They even had 3 less turnovers........Having 54 pts from 3pters alone.........and scoring 105? Thats such bad offensive numbers for a contender in the Wcf

This game made Denver look worse too and the "real Nba finals" narrative look shaky. La leading like 140 mins of their series was bad enough but Ant was never this tired guarding Denver. He was full throttle every 4th quarter. Just from guarding Kyrie he was gassed to **** by the start of the 4th. Couldnt even drive the ball just settled for 3s. Looking at his 3pt rate this game youd think he was Klay lol...... Guarding Jamal Murray on a bad calf is different than this

[falcolombardi]

Is only 1 game so far but the crowning some people made for jokic as the best offensive player by far is gonna look very questionable if dallas outperforms them

Jokic was talked as a offense GOAT, the next generation of offense, fundamentally the most unstoppable player and offensive engine ever by how many people talked

But he only managed 3 good offensive games against the wolves (and in 1 of those games he was shut down the first half and cooked his stats only after his co star brought them up 23)

Luka who who sometimes has been accused of fundamentally not being able to lead a great offense because of his ball dominance despite leading multiple elite offense runs, with his best team offense years being better than jokic best ones

[Special_Puppy]

Is only 1 game so far but the crowning some people made for jokic as the best offensive player by far is gonna look very questionable if dallas outperforms them

Jokic was talked as a offense GOAT, the next generation of offense, fundamentally the most unstoppable player and offensive engine ever by how many people talked

But he only managed 3 good offensive games against the wolves (and in 1 of those games he was shut down the first half and cooked his stats only after his co star brought them up 23)

Luka who who sometimes has been accused of fundamentally not being able to lead a great offense because of his ball dominance despite leading multiple elite offense runs, with his best team offense years being better than jokic best ones

It depends. If Dallas outperforms Denver because Luka did better than Jokic than its a totally reasonable opinion. If Dallas outperforms Denver because Luka's supporting cast did better than Jokic's and because Ant just had a materially worse series overall because of injury then its a not so reasonable claim.

[GSP]

Is only 1 game so far but the crowning some people made for jokic as the best offensive player by far is gonna look very questionable if dallas outperforms them

Jokic was talked as a offense GOAT, the next generation of offense, fundamentally the most unstoppable player and offensive engine ever by how many people talked

But he only managed 3 good offensive games against the wolves (and in 1 of those games he was shut down the first half and cooked his stats only after his co star brought them up 23)

Luka who who sometimes has been accused of fundamentally not being able to lead a great offense because of his ball dominance despite leading multiple elite offense runs, with his best team offense years being better than jokic best ones

It depends. If Dallas outperforms Denver because Luka did better than Jokic than its a totally reasonable. If Dallas outperforms Denver because Luka's supporting cast did better than Jokic's and because Ant just had a materially worse series overall because of injury then its a not so reasonable claim.

Yeah and Kyrie is alot better than Murray nvm a Murray on a bad calf. In Elgees recent vid posted above i think he said Denver had an 85 Ortg w/ Jokic off the floor for the series......Denver has one of the worst benches in the league too so if Dallas does outperform what Denver did we'll have to contextualize the 2 supporting casts as well. Its not just Jokic Vs Luka w/ equal supporting casts

[eminence]

If Conley can't take the Kyrie matchup I'd consider starting NAW. Maybe if they weren't coming off a 7 game series Ant would have the energy for both ends, but he just looked completely gassed by the end tonight (and not exactly fresh to start).

[falcolombardi]

I am getting flashbacks to when people would blame the lebron system on why his team was bad when he was on the bench which is a logic that nobody ever has applied to other players with their own systems around them
(Forever bitterly pointing that out and the "limited ceiling in spite of better team offenses than the guys he is theorically less of a ceiling raiser thsn" bit)

Now back to jokic. Denver is an engine built to be optimized and brought together by Jokic, so if we apply the reasoning that a lot of this board has used to criticize other players portability or ceiling raising he would be responsible for his teammates being dependant on him when he sits. Of course that would be stupid but i wanted to point it out

The idea that Jokic as an engine cannot conceivably have ubderperformed because his team was bad without him doesnt hold to scrutiny because they were not exactly setting the world on fire with jokic there
Jokic for all of his genius and brilliant skillset struggled with bruteforcing shot creation (imo due to the inherent weak point of not being a ball handler) as he created minuscule advantages and the clock was constantly reset, while being doubled and passing back and forcing the D to scramble to recovet is -good- it is not -great- as creating a opem 3 off a drive is

denver team was built to optimize a post offense with their spscing and lob threat/cutter, unfortunately whether it’s the limits to Jokic’s post offense or post offense in general, it failed to produce trong offense results.

Jokic had a good offensive rating in 3 of 7 games, one of which he only performed at all in the second half after jamal brought denver up 23

This is not to say it was a bad series, but i think it showed that despite his skill/vision jokic offense is not some unstopabble or perfect dynamo

[Peregrine01]

I am getting flashbacks to when people would blame the lebron system on why his team was bad when he was on the bench which is a logic that nobody ever has applied to other players with their own systems around them
(Forever bitterly pointing that out and the "limited ceiling in spite of better team offenses than the guys he is theorically less of a ceiling raiser thsn" bit)

Now back to jokic. Denver is an engine built to be optimized and brought together by Jokic, so if we apply the reasoning that a lot of this board has used to criticize other players portability or ceiling raising he would be responsible for his teammates being dependant on him when he sits. Of course that would be stupid but i wanted to point it out

The idea that Jokic as an engine cannot conceivably have ubderperformed because his team was bad without him doesnt hold to scrutiny because they were not exactly setting the world on fire with jokic there
Jokic for all of his genius and brilliant skillset struggled with bruteforcing shot creation (imo due to the inherent weak point of not being a ball handler) as he created minuscule advantages and the clock was constantly reset, while being doubled and passing back and forcing the D to scramble to recovet is -good- it is not -great- as creating a opem 3 off a drive is

denver team was built to optimize a post offense with their spscing and lob threat/cutter, unfortunately whether it’s the limits to Jokic’s post offense or post offense in general, it failed to produce trong offense results.

Jokic had a good offensive rating in 3 of 7 games, one of which he only performed at all in the second half after jamal brought denver up 23

This is not to say it was a bad series, but i think it showed that despite his skill/vision jokic offense is not some unstopabble or perfect dynamo

Because maybe, just maybe, teammates matter? Watching Kyrie and Luka beat Minny's ball pressure was night and day compared to the hell that they had Murray in. We also can't underestimate how taxing ball pressure is and the fact that Minny just emerged from a 7-game war that probably had their legs spent. Ant especially looked worn out.

Agree on post offense though which is why I don't think Malone coached that series well.