(LOCK THREAD) The LeBron James- 23-24 NBA Thread - 40K POINTS+(Part 1)(NO INSULTING)

[zimpy27]

1st lineup is way too small and I do worry a bit with the shooting and offense in general with Caruso, Bron, and AD. We got by in 2020 where there were less stacked teams, a better Bron, and a much better shooting AD. But we didn't have anyone like Dlo or Reaves to be fair on offense

Why are you skeptical how Reaves would be on offense in the playoffs? He was great this last postseason

If Lebron looks more like his regular season self from last year, then I am not worried. I am worried if he looks like he did these playoffs, where he was clearly not 100%

AD is always pretty damn inconsistent now since that achilles injury in 2021, but even in 2020 playoffs he had some wild swings too

A defensive idenitity is fine if we can't get a top end offensive talent, but at the end of the day in crunch time it comes down to your best option or two.

Do we have enough to go up in crunch time in a close game vs Jokic, Murray, and their core? Dame, Giannis, and Middleton? Tatum, Brown, and KP? KD, Booker, and Beal?

We do have physicality on our side though with AD and Bron vs most teams

Luckily we have some good tradeable contracts, some decent young assets, and picks and swaps if we want to push in the chips

ADs just been hurt lol, but he was consistent in 2020 idk what ur talking about he was the best player till the finals (caveat, bron wasn’t trying as hard)

You are right, I did look back at the game log

He had like 1 meh game vs Hou and 1 bad game in the finals where Olynyk outplayed him

Had 2 games where he didnt need to do much where we blew our Portland and Hou, but those are fine

In 2021 we wasn't consistent in the reg season even pre achilles injury though

I wonder if a big 3 on offense of Bron, AD, and Reaves are enough considering how top heavy some teams are. Health and age are obviously a huge factor

I'm mostly concerned with how slow Bron and Davis are on offense. The Lakers can get you an efficient offense, we saw it in playoffs. But they got out scored by Nuggets.

They need a tough defense and that's why I want Caruso. A guy that can match up on Murray, Booker/Beal, Jrue, Lillard

[tsherkin]

I'm mostly concerned with how slow Bron and Davis are on offense. The Lakers can get you an efficient offense, we saw it in playoffs. But they got out scored by Nuggets.

Yes, because their defense permitted Denver to posted a 124+ ORTG as a team. They hadn't a prayer of defending Jokic, who posted 28/15/12 on them, roughly, at 60% TS and 126 ORTG (and that's actually defending Jokic's scoring WELL), and Jamal Murray ripped them new holes all over the place to the tune of 33/6/5 on 65% TS and 130 ORTG.

Their D had no prayer of stopping that attack.

Lebron matched off Jokic rather well statistically, posting about 28/10/10 on about 61% TS. And AD posted about 27/14/2 on about 60% TS. But it wasn't even close to enough. Reaves played great, too, 21/3/5 on about 74% TS.

But they just couldn't score efficiently enough to keep up with Murray or the impact of Jokic's playmaking.

How well Lebron and AD can play and how healthy they can be will be an interesting subplot.

[zimpy27]

I'm mostly concerned with how slow Bron and Davis are on offense. The Lakers can get you an efficient offense, we saw it in playoffs. But they got out scored by Nuggets.

Yes, because their defense permitted Denver to posted a 124+ ORTG as a team. They hadn't a prayer of defending Jokic, who posted 28/15/12 on them, roughly, at 60% TS and 126 ORTG (and that's actually defending Jokic's scoring WELL), and Jamal Murray ripped them new holes all over the place to the tune of 33/6/5 on 65% TS and 130 ORTG.

Their D had no prayer of stopping that attack.

Lebron matched off Jokic rather well statistically, posting about 28/10/10 on about 61% TS. And AD posted about 27/14/2 on about 60% TS. But it wasn't even close to enough. Reaves played great, too, 21/3/5 on about 74% TS.

But they just couldn't score efficiently enough to keep up with Murray or the impact of Jokic's playmaking.

How well Lebron and AD can play and how healthy they can be will be an interesting subplot.

Yeah.

Vando was injured in GSW series, he had a chance of defending Murray but no one else was a good fit.

Jokic is Jokic and no one is doing a better job than Davis on him. it was Murray being able to score 33 per game on 65 TS% that stopped the Lakers

[tsherkin]

Jokic is Jokic but it was Murray being able to score 33 per game on 65 TS% that stopped the Lakers

Too dismissive. Jokic's playmaking always impacts Murray, though obviously Jamal was also extremely good beyond that.

We shall see what happens, I guess. 5, 10 years ago, 60% TS was incredible. Now, it's +2% rTS in the RS and last year it was +3.4% in the playoffs. That's good, but not ultra-dominant. LA needs to find a way to be more efficient, especially with it's primary offensive stars, if they really want to compete. And, obviously, defend more effectively.

[zimpy27]

Jokic is Jokic but it was Murray being able to score 33 per game on 65 TS% that stopped the Lakers

Too dismissive. Jokic's playmaking always impacts Murray, though obviously Jamal was also extremely good beyond that.

We shall see what happens, I guess. 5, 10 years ago, 60% TS was incredible. Now, it's +2% rTS in the RS and last year it was +3.4% in the playoffs. That's good, but not ultra-dominant. LA needs to find a way to be more efficient, especially with it's primary offensive stars, if they really want to compete. And, obviously, defend more effectively.

In playoffs:

Murray is assisted on 28% of 2s and 58% of 3s
Jokic is assisted on 56% of 2s and 71% of 3s

Murray is by far the least assisted scorer on the Nuggets.

LeBron is assisted on 44% of 2s and 79% of 3s

This just shows how good Murray is in scoring in isolation. People sleep on Murray so hard because of Jokic but he's really an amazing iso scorer and Lakers had nothing to stop him.

[MyUniBroDavis]

I'm mostly concerned with how slow Bron and Davis are on offense. The Lakers can get you an efficient offense, we saw it in playoffs. But they got out scored by Nuggets.

Yes, because their defense permitted Denver to posted a 124+ ORTG as a team. They hadn't a prayer of defending Jokic, who posted 28/15/12 on them, roughly, at 60% TS and 126 ORTG (and that's actually defending Jokic's scoring WELL), and Jamal Murray ripped them new holes all over the place to the tune of 33/6/5 on 65% TS and 130 ORTG.

Their D had no prayer of stopping that attack.

Lebron matched off Jokic rather well statistically, posting about 28/10/10 on about 61% TS. And AD posted about 27/14/2 on about 60% TS. But it wasn't even close to enough. Reaves played great, too, 21/3/5 on about 74% TS.

But they just couldn't score efficiently enough to keep up with Murray or the impact of Jokic's playmaking.

How well Lebron and AD can play and how healthy they can be will be an interesting subplot.

The biggest issue was our transition defense because AD kept on ending up on the floor, and guard defense on murray. When you go through Murrays shots for the most part it had nothing to do with what we were doing to Jokic

The defense on Jokic was great, him being at 60TS undersells the job because they held him below league average TS for 3/4 games. At most we would allow guys like Aaron Gordon or Jeff green open looks, which we did for Curry (guys like Dray) that only punished us game 4, but our defense on murray was unrelated to our defense on Jokic aside from us not constantly blitzing murray maybe, but that’s hardly anything big for Jokic specifically

I’ve already had a back and forth on peregrine on this awhile ago, but for the most part we were able to stop the denver post offense, the issue is we literally didnt have a single perimeter defender able to guard a pick guard because Vando dies on screens and Dennis was too small for this matchup, and all the good we did with our halfcourt defense on Jokic was undone by our defense on murray + transition defense

A bit better roster to do that now, but still a concern

The Jokic was the reason murray went off was always a bit of a weird take some people had when watching the games, he was hitting absolutely absurd shots it wasn’t like we weren’t keyed in on him or conceding shots to Jokic for murray, the Guys we helped off of was Aaron Gordon and the Jeff greens of the world, murray just cooked everyone we threw in front of him

It’s more of a matchup thing than anything else, but I wouldn’t say our issue was our defense on Jokic when even witth him hitting absurd threes he was still held under league average TS% for 3/4 games

Lakers offense will be fine as long as bron and AD can go into the playoffs healthy for once, not exactly a given though lol


ADs offense was horrible because every missed shot was a transition opportunity for denver, he should have figured out they weren’t gonna call fouls on Jokic like they did JJJ in the post lol

[MyUniBroDavis]

Jokic is Jokic but it was Murray being able to score 33 per game on 65 TS% that stopped the Lakers

Too dismissive. Jokic's playmaking always impacts Murray, though obviously Jamal was also extremely good beyond that.

We shall see what happens, I guess. 5, 10 years ago, 60% TS was incredible. Now, it's +2% rTS in the RS and last year it was +3.4% in the playoffs. That's good, but not ultra-dominant. LA needs to find a way to be more efficient, especially with it's primary offensive stars, if they really want to compete. And, obviously, defend more effectively.

In playoffs:

Murray is assisted on 28% of 2s and 58% of 3s
Jokic is assisted on 56% of 2s and 71% of 3s

Murray is by far the least assisted scorer on the Nuggets.

LeBron is assisted on 44% of 2s and 79% of 3s

This just shows how good Murray is in scoring in isolation. People sleep on Murray so hard because of Jokic but he's really an amazing iso scorer and Lakers had nothing to stop him.

I mean, murray won’t do what he did again to us I assume, if he was consistently like that he’d be better than Curry lmao

AD got cooked one on one it was nasty, Rui and Lebron did a good job with help

[zimpy27]

Too dismissive. Jokic's playmaking always impacts Murray, though obviously Jamal was also extremely good beyond that.

We shall see what happens, I guess. 5, 10 years ago, 60% TS was incredible. Now, it's +2% rTS in the RS and last year it was +3.4% in the playoffs. That's good, but not ultra-dominant. LA needs to find a way to be more efficient, especially with it's primary offensive stars, if they really want to compete. And, obviously, defend more effectively.

In playoffs:

Murray is assisted on 28% of 2s and 58% of 3s
Jokic is assisted on 56% of 2s and 71% of 3s

Murray is by far the least assisted scorer on the Nuggets.

LeBron is assisted on 44% of 2s and 79% of 3s

This just shows how good Murray is in scoring in isolation. People sleep on Murray so hard because of Jokic but he's really an amazing iso scorer and Lakers had nothing to stop him.

I mean, murray won’t do what he did again to us I assume, if he was consistently like that he’d be better than Curry lmao

AD got cooked one on one it was nasty, Rui and Lebron did a good job with help

Murray did it all playoffs to some degree. There was just the least resistance on the Lakers.

Murray also did this in the bubble when healthy. He's just a good offensive player in isolation and when more isolation in thr playoffs happens he can go to work.

Getting a big guard defender like Caruso or Bruce Brown was important for Lakers. They got Vincent but he won't be good enough. I'm expecting DLo to be traded for a guard upgrade (either Kyrie or a defensive guard).

[nzahir]

ADs just been hurt lol, but he was consistent in 2020 idk what ur talking about he was the best player till the finals (caveat, bron wasn’t trying as hard)

You are right, I did look back at the game log

He had like 1 meh game vs Hou and 1 bad game in the finals where Olynyk outplayed him

Had 2 games where he didnt need to do much where we blew our Portland and Hou, but those are fine

In 2021 we wasn't consistent in the reg season even pre achilles injury though

I wonder if a big 3 on offense of Bron, AD, and Reaves are enough considering how top heavy some teams are. Health and age are obviously a huge factor

I'm mostly concerned with how slow Bron and Davis are on offense. The Lakers can get you an efficient offense, we saw it in playoffs. But they got out scored by Nuggets.

They need a tough defense and that's why I want Caruso. A guy that can match up on Murray, Booker/Beal, Jrue, Lillard

Ya if we want a tough defense, Caruso is the most reasonable guy to go after and get

I think OG is a getable guy if Toronto is blwing it up and is reasonable on their ask.

Jrue went for a GS 2024 1st, a 2029 1st, Robert Williams, and Brogdon

Jrue is a tier above OG

Dejounte Murray had a very good contract and an all star season prior and went for 3 1sts and a swap. Also a tier above OG

OG is really worth a 1st, 1-2 swaps, and a decent young guy on a rookie/good contract or another 1st

I feel like our 2029 1st with no protections (at most top 3 protections), 2026 and 2028 swap, JHS/Christie, and Vando could be enough

If you want an offense with a guy who has more burst and can shoot, Lavine is the only guy I see who is out there and could be moved

[MyUniBroDavis]

In playoffs:

Murray is assisted on 28% of 2s and 58% of 3s
Jokic is assisted on 56% of 2s and 71% of 3s

Murray is by far the least assisted scorer on the Nuggets.

LeBron is assisted on 44% of 2s and 79% of 3s

This just shows how good Murray is in scoring in isolation. People sleep on Murray so hard because of Jokic but he's really an amazing iso scorer and Lakers had nothing to stop him.

I mean, murray won’t do what he did again to us I assume, if he was consistently like that he’d be better than Curry lmao

AD got cooked one on one it was nasty, Rui and Lebron did a good job with help

Murray did it all playoffs to some degree. There was just the least resistance on the Lakers.

Murray also did this in the bubble when healthy. He's just a good offensive player in isolation and when more isolation in thr playoffs happens he can go to work.

Getting a big guard defender like Caruso or Bruce Brown was important for Lakers. They got Vincent but he won't be good enough. I'm expecting DLo to be traded for a guard upgrade (either Kyrie or a defensive guard).

Murray vs Minnesota
27/6
47/43/90

Murray vs PHO
25/6.5
45/36/92

Murray vs MIA
21/10
45/39/93

Murray vs us
32/5
53/40/95

Vs everyone else he was very good but more like all NBA guard rather than best guard in the league level, not like teams like Phoenix had good perimeter defense either, he hit crazy shots vs us

[zimpy27]

I mean, murray won’t do what he did again to us I assume, if he was consistently like that he’d be better than Curry lmao

AD got cooked one on one it was nasty, Rui and Lebron did a good job with help

Murray did it all playoffs to some degree. There was just the least resistance on the Lakers.

Murray also did this in the bubble when healthy. He's just a good offensive player in isolation and when more isolation in thr playoffs happens he can go to work.

Getting a big guard defender like Caruso or Bruce Brown was important for Lakers. They got Vincent but he won't be good enough. I'm expecting DLo to be traded for a guard upgrade (either Kyrie or a defensive guard).

Murray vs Minnesota
27/6
47/43/90

Murray vs PHO
25/6.5
45/36/92

Murray vs MIA
21/10
45/39/93

Murray vs us
32/5
53/40/95

Vs everyone else he was very good but more like all NBA guard rather than best guard in the league level, not like teams like Phoenix had good perimeter defense either, he hit crazy shots vs us

Yeah against Miami he struggled but they also have guys that can lock down guards. Butler can be especially good at this role.

This is why Bruce Brown or Caruso are an important add. Lakers have the perfect setup now with bigs like Rui and Wood that can provide quality offense.

[zimpy27]

You are right, I did look back at the game log

He had like 1 meh game vs Hou and 1 bad game in the finals where Olynyk outplayed him

Had 2 games where he didnt need to do much where we blew our Portland and Hou, but those are fine

In 2021 we wasn't consistent in the reg season even pre achilles injury though

I wonder if a big 3 on offense of Bron, AD, and Reaves are enough considering how top heavy some teams are. Health and age are obviously a huge factor

I'm mostly concerned with how slow Bron and Davis are on offense. The Lakers can get you an efficient offense, we saw it in playoffs. But they got out scored by Nuggets.

They need a tough defense and that's why I want Caruso. A guy that can match up on Murray, Booker/Beal, Jrue, Lillard

Ya if we want a tough defense, Caruso is the most reasonable guy to go after and get

I think OG is a getable guy if Toronto is blwing it up and is reasonable on their ask.

Jrue went for a GS 2024 1st, a 2029 1st, Robert Williams, and Brogdon

Jrue is a tier above OG

Dejounte Murray had a very good contract and an all star season prior and went for 3 1sts and a swap. Also a tier above OG

OG is really worth a 1st, 1-2 swaps, and a decent young guy on a rookie/good contract or another 1st

I feel like our 2029 1st with no protections (at most top 3 protections), 2026 and 2028 swap, JHS/Christie, and Vando could be enough

If you want an offense with a guy who has more burst and can shoot, Lavine is the only guy I see who is out there and could be moved

OG is not gettable IMO. Masai loveshim and he fits with Barnes. Siakam is on the outer their, he will be gone soon.

Caruso is gettable. Bulls need playmaking and Caruso struggled in that role. DLo fits Bulls.

If Bulls think Lonzo is cooked then I wonder if DLo+Vincent is worth it for Ball+Caruso

[MyUniBroDavis]

Murray did it all playoffs to some degree. There was just the least resistance on the Lakers.

Murray also did this in the bubble when healthy. He's just a good offensive player in isolation and when more isolation in thr playoffs happens he can go to work.

Getting a big guard defender like Caruso or Bruce Brown was important for Lakers. They got Vincent but he won't be good enough. I'm expecting DLo to be traded for a guard upgrade (either Kyrie or a defensive guard).

Murray vs Minnesota
27/6
47/43/90

Murray vs PHO
25/6.5
45/36/92

Murray vs MIA
21/10
45/39/93

Murray vs us
32/5
53/40/95

Vs everyone else he was very good but more like all NBA guard rather than best guard in the league level, not like teams like Phoenix had good perimeter defense either, he hit crazy shots vs us

Yeah against Miami he struggled but they also have guys that can lock down guards. Butler can be especially good at this role.

This is why Bruce Brown or Caruso are an important add. Lakers have the perfect setup now with bigs like Rui and Wood that can provide quality offense.

I mean he’s an issue still I don’t think saying he’s only did better because our D is worse is accurate either, he played like a top 3 offensive player in the league vs us

[zimpy27]

Murray vs Minnesota
27/6
47/43/90

Murray vs PHO
25/6.5
45/36/92

Murray vs MIA
21/10
45/39/93

Murray vs us
32/5
53/40/95

Vs everyone else he was very good but more like all NBA guard rather than best guard in the league level, not like teams like Phoenix had good perimeter defense either, he hit crazy shots vs us

Yeah against Miami he struggled but they also have guys that can lock down guards. Butler can be especially good at this role.

This is why Bruce Brown or Caruso are an important add. Lakers have the perfect setup now with bigs like Rui and Wood that can provide quality offense.

I mean he’s an issue still I don’t think saying he’s only did better because our D is worse is accurate either, he played like a top 3 offensive player in the league vs us

You can't just chalk that up to bad luck, as tempting as it might be. You need to counter it.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Yeah against Miami he struggled but they also have guys that can lock down guards. Butler can be especially good at this role.

This is why Bruce Brown or Caruso are an important add. Lakers have the perfect setup now with bigs like Rui and Wood that can provide quality offense.

I mean he’s an issue still I don’t think saying he’s only did better because our D is worse is accurate either, he played like a top 3 offensive player in the league vs us

You can't just chalk that up to bad luck, as tempting as it might be. You need to counter it.

Sure, but it absolutely was bad luck lol

The guard matchup was bad for us in that we don’t have someone that can guard him but we can absolutely say him being the best offensive player in basketball for a series was unlucky regardless lol

[nzahir]

I'm mostly concerned with how slow Bron and Davis are on offense. The Lakers can get you an efficient offense, we saw it in playoffs. But they got out scored by Nuggets.

They need a tough defense and that's why I want Caruso. A guy that can match up on Murray, Booker/Beal, Jrue, Lillard

Ya if we want a tough defense, Caruso is the most reasonable guy to go after and get

I think OG is a getable guy if Toronto is blwing it up and is reasonable on their ask.

Jrue went for a GS 2024 1st, a 2029 1st, Robert Williams, and Brogdon

Jrue is a tier above OG

Dejounte Murray had a very good contract and an all star season prior and went for 3 1sts and a swap. Also a tier above OG

OG is really worth a 1st, 1-2 swaps, and a decent young guy on a rookie/good contract or another 1st

I feel like our 2029 1st with no protections (at most top 3 protections), 2026 and 2028 swap, JHS/Christie, and Vando could be enough

If you want an offense with a guy who has more burst and can shoot, Lavine is the only guy I see who is out there and could be moved

OG is not gettable IMO. Masai loveshim and he fits with Barnes. Siakam is on the outer their, he will be gone soon.

Caruso is gettable. Bulls need playmaking and Caruso struggled in that role. DLo fits Bulls.

If Bulls think Lonzo is cooked then I wonder if DLo+Vincent is worth it for Ball+Caruso

Idk if I would trade Dlo, let alone both Dlo and Vincent and not get another guy who can create for himself on offense

The question is what would a Caruso deal look like?

Are we moving Vando or Vincent for salary?

[MyUniBroDavis]

Ya if we want a tough defense, Caruso is the most reasonable guy to go after and get

I think OG is a getable guy if Toronto is blwing it up and is reasonable on their ask.

Jrue went for a GS 2024 1st, a 2029 1st, Robert Williams, and Brogdon

Jrue is a tier above OG

Dejounte Murray had a very good contract and an all star season prior and went for 3 1sts and a swap. Also a tier above OG

OG is really worth a 1st, 1-2 swaps, and a decent young guy on a rookie/good contract or another 1st

I feel like our 2029 1st with no protections (at most top 3 protections), 2026 and 2028 swap, JHS/Christie, and Vando could be enough

If you want an offense with a guy who has more burst and can shoot, Lavine is the only guy I see who is out there and could be moved

OG is not gettable IMO. Masai loveshim and he fits with Barnes. Siakam is on the outer their, he will be gone soon.

Caruso is gettable. Bulls need playmaking and Caruso struggled in that role. DLo fits Bulls.

If Bulls think Lonzo is cooked then I wonder if DLo+Vincent is worth it for Ball+Caruso

Idk if I would trade Dlo, let alone both Dlo and Vincent and not get another guy who can create for himself on offense

The question is what would a Caruso deal look like?

Are we moving Vando or Vincent for salary?

Lonzo is out for the year I think

I wouldn’t trade low on DLO, we’ll see how his defense is if it’s playable enough

[tsherkin]

Jokic is Jokic but it was Murray being able to score 33 per game on 65 TS% that stopped the Lakers

Too dismissive. Jokic's playmaking always impacts Murray, though obviously Jamal was also extremely good beyond that.

We shall see what happens, I guess. 5, 10 years ago, 60% TS was incredible. Now, it's +2% rTS in the RS and last year it was +3.4% in the playoffs. That's good, but not ultra-dominant. LA needs to find a way to be more efficient, especially with it's primary offensive stars, if they really want to compete. And, obviously, defend more effectively.

In playoffs:

Murray is assisted on 28% of 2s and 58% of 3s
Jokic is assisted on 56% of 2s and 71% of 3s

Murray is by far the least assisted scorer on the Nuggets.

LeBron is assisted on 44% of 2s and 79% of 3s

This just shows how good Murray is in scoring in isolation. People sleep on Murray so hard because of Jokic but he's really an amazing iso scorer and Lakers had nothing to stop him.

This still has an inherent assumption that Jokic's playmaking must specifically end in an assist to Murray to have affected him, which is an errant assumption.

Yes, absolutely, Murray is ALSO a very good isolation scorer, but having Jokic and his threat on the floor warps defenses in ways that open the door for Jamal to get to those isos and shots.

[tsherkin]

The Jokic was the reason murray went off was always a bit of a weird take some people had when watching the games,

He wasn't THE reason. He was a contributing factor. These are very different things, because one implies that the full measure of Murray's performance was on Jokic's shoulders, which is far from the truth. The other implies that Jokic made life easier for Murray, which is very much true, even though it is ALSO true that Murray was also just insanely hot.

[MyUniBroDavis]

The Jokic was the reason murray went off was always a bit of a weird take some people had when watching the games,

He wasn't THE reason. He was a contributing factor. These are very different things, because one implies that the full measure of Murray's performance was on Jokic's shoulders, which is far from the truth. The other implies that Jokic made life easier for Murray, which is very much true, even though it is ALSO true that Murray was also just insanely hot.

Hmm, I mean I’d say he was a contributing factor but not nearly as much as people tend to say it as, outside of their pick and roll combo where I wouldn’t even say it was unique to Jokic or anything, wasn’t a situation where our defense was so focused on Jokic we couldn’t spare anything to focus on Murray, we just quite literally did not have a single guy to guard big pick and roll guards because Vando does in screens and Dennis was just getting overpowered unlike his D on Steph

Reaves did okay but it seemed like we saw how dead his legs were vs klay

Like the way ur phrasing it, it sounds like the idea is the attention Jokic draws led to murray having decent shot quality and he did that better than the quality of shots, but aside from him taking advanTge of the fact that our transition defense is the worst in the league and that Vando dies on screens, for the most part he was taking tough shots and hitting them at a great clip, outside of us not helping off of Jokic as much as we’d help off of like an Aaron Gordon it’s really overstated, it’s a tip ur cap moment