RealGM Top 100 List #16

[Gongxi]

I don't know if I'll be around much in the next day or so, so I'll be voting LeBron. As far as nominations go, arguments here and in other threads have convinced me of Gilmore- barely- over Ewing. I feel bad, I've said I was going with Pat and then changed my mind twice. But...oh well.

[ronnymac2]

Vote: LeBron James

Nominate: Patrick Ewing

For my vote...I honestly couldn't decide, so I went with the best peak player. I was nominating the guy before everybody else was...I have to remember there was a reason for that.

The nomination is fairly straightforward.

[Fencer reregistered]

You guys, especially Elgee, are convincing me to the negative on Moses.

Also, I just took a quick look at his numbers, and if we assume high efficiency on putbacks, then otherwise he wasn't very efficient offensively at all. And since we know he wasn't much of an offensive contributor otherwise, that means that the great offensive rebounding pretty much encapsulates the whole of his offensive excellence.

Changing my vote here from Moses to Dirk.

I'm giving Dirk a few bonus points here for being the first elite Euro in the NBA, and for being in the discussion with Bird as all-time great big man shooter, even as we rank Bird unquestionably over Dirk in other areas of the game.

I expect LeBron to overtake Dirk on these lists before he's done, but IMO he hasn't yet.

[SDChargers#1]

Sorry guys I have been on vacation and I thought I would have more computer access than I have.

I vote for Moses (again) and nominate Pippen (again)

[shawngoat23]

Excellent arguments all around.

I'm still voting for Moses Malone. His impact may not have been as significant as I originally thought, but I do value accomplishments, and three MVPs, two Finals appearances (one of which was with a weak team), a championship, and a Finals MVP is still a pretty big deal. That and a twenty year career.

Really unsure about who I want to nominate, and I have been unsure for the past 6 threads or so. I would really prefer it if we could suspend nominations for 4-5 threads, so that we can get back down to the original 6 nominees per position, then resume nominations again. But until then, I will tentatively go with John Havlicek.

[drza]

Life has called in the last few days, so I haven't had the time to really try to stir up discussion points the way I would like. As I said in my last post, I'm fairly secure with having LeBron, Dirk and Barkley ahead of Moses right now. Which means that I would have liked to have been able to see/participate in more LeBron vs Dirk and/or Barkley discussions. I actually wouldn't be averse to hearing more about David Robinson at this point, as well.

But, voting closes in 20 minutes, so I'll go ahead with what I've got...and still, I haven't been convinced to not go with Nowitzki. So I'll plug him in for the second vote in a row.

As for the nomination, I've been going with Pippen for a couple threads now, and I think I'll stay there until I'm convinced to go otherwise. I saw the post that compared Pippen to Havlicek, and I acknowledge the points made. I also saw those saying that much of Pippen's impact was tied into defense, but a dominant wing defender isn't as impactful as a dominant big defender. And I acknowledge that to usually be true as well.

That said, in a project like this I think we have enough participants and data to make arguments that aren't based just on trends. And I'm not sure that Pippen isn't just the exception as far as "perimeter defenders" go. Pippen wasn't the conventional perimeter defender that was only locked up on their man. He was all-history at that aspect of the game, but he was also outstanding at help defense. I remember traps all over the court, from one baseline to the other. I remember him pin-down trapping on bigs. I remember him being switched onto bigs and holding his own. And while I don't have any +/- numbers for him (ElGee? Anyone?), I can say that in the early-mid 90s we saw the Bulls lose Jordan, and then Horace Grant, along with most if not all of the supporting players at one point or another, but they maintained their very strong defense with only Pippen as the common denominator. And on the '96 team with the #1 defense in the league, I would argue that Pippen was the biggest impact defender on the squad. So I don't know if he fits into the usual perimeter mode. His incredible length/agility combo let him defend on a level that very few, if any, perimeter players can claim. And I think that his playmaking is an extremely underrated factor in that Bulls offense. Jordan is the man, but Pippen was huge on that end as well. In fact, his playmaking abilities (in conjunction with the Triangle offense) allowed Jordan to be in attack mode all the time without it being a detriment to the ball-movement and overall offensive effectiveness of his teammates.

Vote: Dirk Nowitzki
Nominate: Scottie Pippen

[Dr Positivity]

The vote ends tonight, no? I'll do a quick count

[penbeast0]

OK, MIDNIGHT HAS COME AND HERE ARE THE TOTALS (as always, feel free to doublecheck me and see if I miscounted . . . I only have so many fingers and was too lazy to take my shoes off.

VOTES

Moses – Doctor MJ, ThaRegul8r, Black Feet, therealbig3, JordansBulls. Laimbeer. Sedale Threatt, cpower, An Unbiased Fan, SCChargers#1, shawngoat23
LeBron – penbeast0, ElGee, Gongxi, ronnymac2
Dirk – mysticbb, DavidStern, Baller24, Dr Mufasa, Fencer reregistered, drza
Barkley – JayFromLA, fatal9


NOMINATIONS

Ewing – Dr Mufasa. sedale threat, DavidStern, Baller24, ronnymac2
Nash – Doctor MJ, ElGee, mysticbb, fatal9
Stockton – Black Feet, JayFromLA, An Unbiased Fan
Gilmore – penbeast0, Gongxi
Isiah – JordansBulls, Laimbeer
Pippen – therealbig3, SDChargers#1, drza
Havlicek – cpower, shawngoat23

I think it's great that someone else joined me voting for Gilmore although I would have switched my vote to either Havlicek or Ewing if it was a tie since they were both very close for me. But, I have it as Moses winning easily and Ewing over Nash for the nomination 5-4

[therealbig3]

OK, MIDNIGHT HAS COME AND HERE ARE THE TOTALS (as always, feel free to doublecheck me and see if I miscounted . . . I only have so many fingers and was too lazy to take my shoes off.

VOTES

Moses – Doctor MJ, ThaRegul8r, Black Feet, therealbig3, JordansBulls. Laimbeer. Sedale Threatt, cpower, An Unbiased Fan, SCChargers#1, shawngoat23
LeBron – penbeast0, ElGee, Gongxi, ronnymac2
Dirk – mysticbb, DavidStern, Baller24, Dr Mufasa, Fencer reregistered, drza
Barkley – JayFromLA, fatal9


NOMINATIONS

Ewing – Dr Mufasa. sedale threat, DavidStern, Baller24, ronnymac2
Nash – Doctor MJ, ElGee, mysticbb, fatal9
Stockton – Black Feet, JayFromLA, An Unbiased Fan
Gilmore – penbeast0, Gongxi
Isiah – JordansBulls, Laimbeer
Pippen – therealbig3, SDChargers#1, drza
Havlicek – cpower, shawngoat23

I think it's great that someone else joined me voting for Gilmore although I would have switched my vote to either Havlicek or Ewing if it was a tie since they were both very close for me. But, I have it as Moses winning easily and Ewing over Nash for the nomination 5-4

I have the same vote count except for LeBron vs Dirk. I believe Dr. Mufasa voted for LeBron on page 1.

[Fencer reregistered]

He switched his vote toward the end, which inspired me to do similarly.

[Dr Positivity]

I changed my vote on Page 6

I counted before penbeast made that post, the only difference I have is Fencer nominating Pippen on Pg 2, but it's not enough to overtake Ewing

[therealbig3]

Ah ok, gotcha.

Doesn't matter though lol, looks like Moses ran away with it.