Does Dirk with title surpass KG

[richboy]

If Dirk wins the title this year. Would he have had a better career than Kevin Garnett to this point? They both would have 1 title and 1 MVP. They both also would have lost 1 trip to the finals. Dirk however was the clear cut best player on both of his teams. Right now doesn't even play with another all-star while KG was playing with 2 or 3 others. If Dirk wins the title doesn't he have a good case to be ranked above KG in any all-time rankings.

[tsherkin]

There's still the difference in rebounding, passing and defense (along with the DPOY to go with it, and the epic 08 defense) that helps KG out, but it'd certainly help Dirk's legacy out in a general sense.

[picc]

No.

[An Unbiased Fan]

I already have Dirk ahead of KG.

[rrravenred]

No. Titles are not generally a tie-breaker with me, regardless of the fact that on actual performance to date I think KG is the superior player. This comes from a very big Dirk fan, too.

[G35]

KG has never been as dominant as Dirk has been during these playoffs. People want to bring in defense and some sort of intangibles argument. But Dirk is killing teams because he is completely unguardable. He is opening up the Maverick offense because he is so unguardable. I would rather have that sort offensive potency than the defense KG brings. And please don't say KG's offense is comparable because it's not. Dirks offense is so good it's demoralizing.....

[8 Mile Ilic]

Yes. A superior offensive player with more success as the #1 option on his team who has a history of showing up instead of disappearing in the clutch.

KG's defense would keep him in the discussion assuming Dirk wins a championship but he'd be a notch below on my official rankings.

[drza]

It's interesting what titles can do for perception. And I'm guilty of it too, though I try not to be. In 2007 I had Dirk right with Kobe, maybe a half step back, with Kobe a step behind Duncan and KG for the best players of this generation. Then, in the next 3 years, KG won a title and Kobe won two and I felt like they had distanced themselves a bit from Dirk. Which, in hindsight, is silly. But it's what it is.

On topic, no, Dirk doesn't surpass KG with a title. KG was a better player. But title or not, I think Dirk is right there at the edge of that group battling for best of the generation. I'd still probably put him fourth, but he's definitely an all-time player. I've said for years he's the Barkley of his generation, and if nothing else I'm even more comfortable putting him on that level.

[richboy]

KG does have the advantage on defense. It could be said that Dirk has a pretty big advantage on offense as well.:

[nonemus]

I already have Dirk ahead of KG.

Can we create a page just for ridiculous AUF posts?

[8 Mile Ilic]

I already have Dirk ahead of KG.

Can we create a page just for ridiculous AUF posts?

It's not that ridiculous... Dirk achieved more as the unquestioned #1 option on his team than KG did.

[drza]

I already have Dirk ahead of KG.

Can we create a page just for ridiculous AUF posts?

It's not that ridiculous... Dirk achieved more as the unquestioned #1 option on his team than KG did.

I continue to ask, and am never given a satisfying answer...why is "# 1 option" more important than "best player"? KG was clearly the best player on the '08 Celtics.

[tsherkin]

KG does have the advantage on defense. It could be said that Dirk has a pretty big advantage on offense as well.:

No you couldn't.

You would only be able to say that Dirk has a pretty big advantage as a SCORER, not on offense in general.

Passing is offense too, and KG is a considerably better playmaker. Not ALL that far off as a scoring weapon, either. Dirk's a career 23 ppg player on about 58% TS (though that average is more like 24.5 ppg if you ignore his earliest seasons). KG is a career 19.5 ppg scorer... but he's 2 years older and started younger. In his prime, he was mostly around 22 ppg... and 5-6 apg on about 54% TS.

So what you see is primarily a difference as a scoring threat, even though Garnett was above league average in efficiency and not dissimilar in volume while also presenting a rather large playmaking advantage.

It's a tough call in a general sense, but there's no clear offensive advantage one way or the other, IMO.

[picc]

I'd say its pretty clear Dirk has an offensive advantage, regardless of #'s.

Not as big as KG's defensive and rebounding advantage though. But arguing a team would be better off with KG on the offensive end than Dirk would be quite the mission.

[tsherkin]

I don't think a scoring advantage counts as an overall offensive advantage when you consider what KG could do himself as a scorer and that massive difference in passing... how do you justify that as a clear pro-Dirk call?

[picc]

One, because Dirk has come a ways as a passer himself, and two, because scoring from an individual player is more valuable than passing from one.

[G35]

I don't see KG's offense being consistent enough to force double teams enough that his passing becomes that much of a factor. I would play KG straight up all day and stay on his teammates. I don't think KG can beat a team with him being the primary scorer.....

[tsherkin]

One, because Dirk has come a ways as a passer himself, and two, because scoring from an individual player is more valuable than passing from one.

I debate that point, especially given the overall impact some passers clearly exert on the level of offensive production their team puts out. If you have that kind of elite playmaking, it really opens up the capabilities of a team... plus like I said, KG was a good scorer himself.

The nature of the gap between the two does lend itself to making this an argument, all I'm saying though is that it shouldn't be considered a clear advantage to Dirk, just a debatable point.

[picc]

Elite playmaking....

Lets not act like KG was a point guard. He was a good playmaker, for a big man. This isn't Steve Nash we're talking about.

[IAMTAI]

Elite playmaking....

Lets not act like KG was a point guard. He was a good playmaker, for a big man. This isn't Steve Nash we're talking about.

No... He was an elite play maker, for a big man.