strong proof Kobe didn't deserve 1st team NBA past 3 seasons

[kvash37]

leading a team to championship rings trumps win shares.

Shaq 3 finals MVPs.
He did not lead the Lakers to last years championship. Gasol (OKC) and Artest (Phoenix) bailed out Kobe after his bricks. Kobe shooting 6-24 in game 7 is not something to brag about.
He got bailed out by his teammates.

What about getting swept 4-0 in a series your team is favored to win?
Name me a "great" player whos team was swept in a series that his team was FAVORED to win and losing the final game by 30+ points.

What did Kobe ever win without an All-Star teammate?

Do you remember 04-05, 05-06, 06-07? He couldn't lead his team out of the 1st round 3 straight years in his prime.

How many players have? Hakeem Olajuwon when Jordan was retired, after that who?

[GrandTheftRondo]

Shaq 3 finals MVPs.
He did not lead the Lakers to last years championship. Gasol (OKC) and Artest (Phoenix) bailed out Kobe after his bricks.

So are you going strictly by Finals MVP or not? Because Kobe carried the Lakers through several games in the tougher western conference during the first 3 peat, but his contributions are quickly dismissed because Shaq won Finals MVP.

Kobe shooting 6-24 in game 7 is not something to brag about.
He got bailed out by his teammates.

Surely one statistic isn't underwhelming Kobe's entire season; Even in game 7, he grabbed 15 rebounds as a shooting guard in a series dictated by rebounds, and got to the free throw line at will during the 4th quarter to help bring the Lakers back from behind and win the championship.

What about getting swept 4-0 in a series your team is favored to win?
Name me a "great" player whos team was swept in a series that his team was FAVORED to win and losing the final game by 30+ points.

The 5th seeded Bulls swept the defending champion Heat in 2007. In 2004, the Lakers won 4 straight against the defending champion Spurs to eliminate them. In 2008, the Lakers beat the defending champion Spurs 4-1 to advance to the Finals. Lebron was 1 shot away from getting swept by the Magic in 2009, and was practically swept last year by the Celtics. Do you agree that Wade, Shaq, Duncan, and Lebron are great?

What did Kobe ever win without an All-Star teammate?

Do you remember 04-05, 05-06, 06-07? He couldn't lead his team out of the 1st round 3 straight years in his prime.

What did anyone ever win without an All-Star teammate? Kobe led a team of d-leaguers into the playoffs in an extremely competitive western conference while averaging 35 points.

Hakeem didn't exactly have scrubs around him. He had the likes of Kenny Smith, Clyde Drexler, Roberty Horry, Sam Cassell and Vernon Maxwell. Definitely better than Andrew Bynum, Kwame Brown etc

[Volcano]

Lakers win every series their frontcourt outplays the opposing frontcourt. They lose every series where their frontcourt gets beat. I don't think it only has to do with Gasol, but he's a large part of it.

Lakers need their frontcourt playing well to win, but don't necessarily need Kobe. It's not really a fair comparison since we're talking about 3-4 players vs one.

[Stunnaboy2K11]

What did anyone ever win without an All-Star teammate? Kobe led a team of d-leaguers into the playoffs in an extremely competitive western conference while averaging 35 points.

Hakeem didn't exactly have scrubs around him. He had the likes of Kenny Smith, Clyde Drexler, Roberty Horry, Sam Cassell and Vernon Maxwell. Definitely better than Andrew Bynum, Kwame Brown etc

I'm talking about '94

he had a young Cassel, Kenny Smith, young Horry, and a washed up Mad Max
Kobe at one point had Odom, Bynum, Smush and Walton

Not that big of a gap in talent

[primecougar]

Lakers win every series their frontcourt outplays the opposing frontcourt. They lose every series where their frontcourt gets beat. I don't think it only has to do with Gasol, but he's a large part of it.

Lakers need their frontcourt playing well to win, but don't necessarily need Kobe. It's not really a fair comparison since we're talking about 3-4 players vs one.

thats all they have besides kobe.

their bench sucks
small forward sucks on offensive and admitted doesnt know whats going on most of the time
pg is probably the worst starter in the league.

obviously when the only other good players struggle the lakers lose. you saying a 32 year kobe could beat a team by himself when there's not even one reliable perimeter player?

[TeamBall361]

Kobe is one of the most overrated player of all time, period.

He only gets those selections because of his reputation.

It's ridiculously funny how kobe stans ignore those stats that kobe doesnt benefit from. Just by saying it's dumb... LOL, they brought up that **** TS% time and time again, just because that makes kobe's inefficiency less embarrassing.

[primecougar]

Kobe is one of the most overrated player of all time, period.

He only gets those selections because of his reputation.

It's ridiculously funny how kobe stans ignore those stats that kobe doesnt benefit from. Just by saying it's dumb... LOL, they brought up that **** TS% time and time again, just because that makes kobe's inefficiency less embarrassing.

do you think lebron had a good series against the bulls?

he shot 44%, the one time people accept him as clutch he has the same efficiency as Kobe. go figure

[Volcano]

Lakers win every series their frontcourt outplays the opposing frontcourt. They lose every series where their frontcourt gets beat. I don't think it only has to do with Gasol, but he's a large part of it.

Lakers need their frontcourt playing well to win, but don't necessarily need Kobe. It's not really a fair comparison since we're talking about 3-4 players vs one.

thats all they have besides kobe.

their bench sucks
small forward sucks on offensive and admitted doesnt know whats going on most of the time
pg is probably the worst starter in the league.

obviously when the only other good players struggle the lakers lose. you saying a 32 year kobe could beat a team by himself when there's not even one reliable perimeter player?

A lot of players don't get that advantage though. Usually the advantage comes from THEM tipping the scales, not their teammates..which is why they're supposed to be the star players. Opposing teams usually try to obtain players to match the superstars/all-time greats, but OKC and Dallas get Perkins + Chandler. The winning impact just seems to come more from the bigs than anything else. I mean, even if they struggle a little, it's not like they're still not a top 5 frontcourt in the league. So shouldn't a top 10 player of all time push them over the top?

[penbeast0]

Win shares? lol. If some of you ran the nba then points rebounds assists would no longer be recorded. It'd just be win shares, per, and plus minus. lol.

Don't be ridiculous. Serious stat geeks use adjusted +/- only.

[parapooper]

Kobe is one of the most overrated player of all time, period.

He only gets those selections because of his reputation.

It's ridiculously funny how kobe stans ignore those stats that kobe doesnt benefit from. Just by saying it's dumb... LOL, they brought up that **** TS% time and time again, just because that makes kobe's inefficiency less embarrassing.

do you think lebron had a good series against the bulls?

he shot 44%, the one time people accept him as clutch he has the same efficiency as Kobe. go figure

LeBron shot 45/39/86% in that series, which is better than Kobe's career playoff average, and he did it against the best defense in the league.
Also, nobody said LeBron was shooting well against the bulls (except in clutch time when he did indeed shoot much better).
On the other hand people say all the time Kobe is great at taking game deciding shots when in fact you could argue he was one of the worst in the league at that for most of his prime years:
http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm