So whether or not Dirk win loses, he's ahead of KG in the...

BeasleyTheBeast · Post #1 » by **BeasleyTheBeast** » Thu Jun 9, 2011 3:40 pm

So whether or not Dirk win loses, he's ahead of KG in the all-time list?

WTF?

Kevin Garnett has been a much better overall player than Dirk ever was.

KG prime (25/12/5 won MVP, lost to the Lakers in WCF)was better than Dirk's prime as well.

But now I'm hearing people say whether or not Dirk wins or loses in the Finals......he moves into the top 25.

And I'm hearing Chris Brouasnds (that dude on ESPN) say Dirk is ahead of Charles Barkley!

Dirk is a great player and arguably the clutchest player of all-time, but he isn't better than KG or Sir Charles.

Siem · Post #2 » by **Siem** » Thu Jun 9, 2011 3:52 pm

Dirk is Great, but I think its Prisoner of the Moment when he gets placed in front of KG or Charles...Chris Broussad didnt say that Dirk is ahead of them but you can argue the point he's ahead of any1 but TD...when it comes to KG you can look at all of the all nba teams and all nba defensive teams he has made, he dominated both ends of the court, and he dominated the boards..One of the best passing PF's of all time as well..He has a MVP and a ring, so how Dirk all of a sudden just leap frogs him makes no sense to me at all..Charles was one of the best scoring PF's and dominated the boards as well. So while I think Dirk is Great, I personally see no way he can be put in front of KG and I dont have him in front of Charles either.

grimballer · Post #3 » by **grimballer** » Thu Jun 9, 2011 3:58 pm

dont know, if he wins this year n gets the finlas mvp, its hard not to consider him better.

he has an mvp (like kg n charles), 11 all nba selections (same as charles, 2 more than kg) n 4 all nba 1st team selections (same as kg, one less than charles).

let me see how consistant u are?

rank these players:

isiah, ai, nash

W Z · Post #4 » by **W Z** » Thu Jun 9, 2011 4:09 pm

I put him slightly behind KG regardless of this year's outcome. The next few years could change things though, as I think KG is starting to decline more than Dirk.

knicksosmoove · Post #5 » by **knicksosmoove** » Thu Jun 9, 2011 5:00 pm

I put Dirk ahead of KG easily. KG is extremely well-rounded, but he's never been able to dominate games like Dirk has. I know Kevin Garnett put up some really good scoring number during his career, but he's never really been a top-level scorer. He doesn't have many go-to moves that he can create on his own plus his numbers were probably inflated while he was on a crappy team. Also, as good as his defense is, it's not like he's stopping elite power forwards from scoring. Dirk and Tim Duncan have completely lit him up in the playoffs and there are other power forwards who have their way with him (Amar'e for one). I'm not saying he's a bad defender, I'm just saying the impact of that defense isn't that much.

Plus, I know most of those Timberwolves were not very good but it kind of baffles me how Kevin Garnett can be so heavily revered when his team either missed the playoffs or went out in the first round as often as he did.

Brooklyn_34 · Post #6 » by **Brooklyn_34** » Thu Jun 9, 2011 5:34 pm

I like KG, and career-wise, it is closer than most people think, IMO.

I agree mostly with what knicksosmoove said.

KG had a hell of a 2004 season.... he probably had a really good case for MVP the year before as well.

KG is definitely a better defender than Dirk. For that reason, I have to give KG the nod over Dirk.

However, despite this, I personally think Dirk has had a greater individual impact on his teams than KG.

How Dirk got that oh-so-mediocre team to the finals in 2006, I will never figure out. He performed magnificently, especially against the Spurs.... had he been able to pull off that championship, that would have elevated his stature to god-like status, considering the mediocre lineup and tough competition.

For whatever reason, he has been more adept at generating regular season wins than KG, despite the fact that he is a lesser defender than KG. I think it has to do with his better playmaking ability and ability to spread the floor. He is also more of a weapon to close out games (offensively, anyway).

Dirk is just one of those guys who are hard to figure out.

He really is not a good defender, individually, yet the team defense collapses when he is not on the court.

He is not a ball hog and does not need many touches, yet he can still put up 25 points on 16 or 17 shots. You will almost never see him put up 4-5 shots in a row, unless it's the 4th quarter. He has a very low "offensive footprint". Yet the man scores.

He is UNBELIEVABLY "clutch"... I am not talking about just last second shots.... but in possessions leading up to it where if a team misses, they are pretty much sunk. He will consistently make these shots.

At times, he looks awkward out there and out of position. Yet he still hits shots.

I am still trying to figure him out.

Pablo Escobar · Post #7 » by **Pablo Escobar** » Thu Jun 9, 2011 5:43 pm

One plays both sides of the floor the other on plays offense, not saying Dirk isn't a great player but he's not even close to KG. KG in his prime could score, play elite defense, grab boards, block shots and pass.

Ito · Post #8 » by **Ito** » Thu Jun 9, 2011 5:58 pm

KG sucks now, and Dirk looks like he´s on his prime right now... I say Dirk passed him already... Dirk might just be the most underrated player of all time

Jeff23 · Post #9 » by **Jeff23** » Thu Jun 9, 2011 6:02 pm

Ito wrote:KG sucks now, and Dirk looks like he´s on his prime right now... I say Dirk passed him already... Dirk might just be the most underrated player of all time

/facepalm

ahonui06 · Post #10 » by **ahonui06** » Thu Jun 9, 2011 6:05 pm

Why is KG so overrated on RealGM?

KG and DIRK are in the same tier.

Why is it so hard to believe that some people have DIRK rated slightly above him?

cpower · Post #11 » by **cpower** » Thu Jun 9, 2011 7:00 pm

No. The value of a player fades over time. In 2007, people considered Duncan the top 5 basketball player of all time, but much fewer consider him a top5 today. If you want to compare Dirk and KG, it's easier to make an adjustment 10 years from now.

Siem · Post #12 » by **Siem** » Thu Jun 9, 2011 7:42 pm

knicksosmoove wrote:I put Dirk ahead of KG easily. KG is extremely well-rounded, but he's never been able to dominate games like Dirk has. I know Kevin Garnett put up some really good scoring number during his career, but he's never really been a top-level scorer. He doesn't have many go-to moves that he can create on his own plus his numbers were probably inflated while he was on a crappy team. Also, as good as his defense is, it's not like he's stopping elite power forwards from scoring. Dirk and Tim Duncan have completely lit him up in the playoffs and there are other power forwards who have their way with him (Amar'e for one). I'm not saying he's a bad defender, I'm just saying the impact of that defense isn't that much.

Plus, I know most of those Timberwolves were not very good but it kind of baffles me how Kevin Garnett can be so heavily revered when his team either missed the playoffs or went out in the first round as often as he did.

You just answered your own question..Look at those Minnesota teams and you would see why they were knocked out the Playoffs in the First round so many times. The one year they gave him help in Spreewell and Cassel he won the MVP and went to the Conference Finals.. The big differnce is whether you say Dirk and Tim Duncan and Amare gave KG problems, he also gave them a difficult time then they would against other PF's, also KG was the main reason his teams were good on the Defensive End, while Dirk was one of the main reasons his teams were bad on the Defensive End. While Dirk is a Great Scorer KG was a good one, but while KG was A Great Rebounder, Defender and Passer, Dirk was a avg. at best Rebounder, Below Avg Defender, and an Average Passer(He's improved this year with his passing).

Siem · Post #13 » by **Siem** » Thu Jun 9, 2011 7:45 pm

KB24_ILLMATIC wrote:One plays both sides of the floor the other on plays offense, not saying Dirk isn't a great player but he's not even close to KG. KG in his prime could score, play elite defense, grab boards, block shots and pass.

+1, If your asking Who's better at this Moment, ofcourse its Dirk..But if your asking where they Rank as all time PF's, then Its KG, and any1 saying KG is over-rated... :roll:

colts18 · Post #14 » by **colts18** » Thu Jun 9, 2011 7:59 pm

Siem wrote:also KG was the main reason his teams were good on the Defensive End, while Dirk was one of the main reasons his teams were bad on the Defensive End.

You got this wrong. Dirk's dallas defenses are ranked ahead of KG's Minnesota defenses. So much for Garnett's defensive reputation (and Dirk's too).

Jeff23 · Post #15 » by **Jeff23** » Thu Jun 9, 2011 8:02 pm

colts18 wrote:
Siem wrote:also KG was the main reason his teams were good on the Defensive End, while Dirk was one of the main reasons his teams were bad on the Defensive End.

You got this wrong. Dirk's dallas defenses are ranked ahead of KG's Minnesota defenses. So much for Garnett's defensive reputation (and Dirk's too).

This is just a ridiculous post. I dont know if that is true, but Garnett is one of the best defenders to ever play the game (the best imo).

Siem · Post #16 » by **Siem** » Thu Jun 9, 2011 8:05 pm

colts18 wrote:
Siem wrote:also KG was the main reason his teams were good on the Defensive End, while Dirk was one of the main reasons his teams were bad on the Defensive End.

You got this wrong. Dirk's dallas defenses are ranked ahead of KG's Minnesota defenses. So much for Garnett's defensive reputation (and Dirk's too).

Your right to a certain extent..But KG's teams in Boston he was the Main reason those teams were great defensively. On Minnesota he was still arguably the Best Defensive PF in the League. Dirk was one of the reasons Dallas was never a Good Defensive Team. His Defense has never been good and was actually a weakness, while KG's Defense has always been a Strength, just look at the NBA Defensive Teams.

colts18 · Post #17 » by **colts18** » Thu Jun 9, 2011 8:23 pm

Jeff23 wrote:
colts18 wrote:
Siem wrote:also KG was the main reason his teams were good on the Defensive End, while Dirk was one of the main reasons his teams were bad on the Defensive End.

You got this wrong. Dirk's dallas defenses are ranked ahead of KG's Minnesota defenses. So much for Garnett's defensive reputation (and Dirk's too).

This is just a ridiculous post. I dont know if that is true, but Garnett is one of the best defenders to ever play the game (the best imo).

The average rank of Dirk's Dallas defenses is better than KG.

KG since he became a starter:
97: 15th D; 17th O
98: 23rd D; 7th O
99: 11th D; 19th O
00: 12th D; 8th O
01: 16th D: 11th O
02: 15th D; 4th O
03: 16th D: 5th O
04: 6th D; 5th O
05: 15th D; 6th O
06: 10th D; 28th O
07: 21st D; 25th O

That's an average of 14.6 on D which is basically league average. With 2 top 10 defenses and 0 top 5 defenses, 4 seasons above the league average. By comparison Dirk has averaged a 4.3 finish in Offense and a 14th place finish on Defense. He has 5 top 10 finishes, 1 top 5 finish, 8 above average finishes. Why is that KG's defenses have done worse than Dirk's despite Dirk having a weaker defensive supporting cast and Dirk being a lot worse defensively than KG?

Siem · Post #18 » by **Siem** » Thu Jun 9, 2011 8:30 pm

How the Hell did Dirk have weaker defensive supporting casts in Minnesota??, and are you even trying to argue the Fact that KG was a Great Defender and Dirk was below Average? because its really not an argument, Now as far as this List you put up, I'm not even sure what You are trying to Display. I'll do my own research and Post Dallas Defensive rankings with Dirk and KG's teams Defensive Rankings.

colts18 · Post #19 » by **colts18** » Thu Jun 9, 2011 8:36 pm

Siem wrote:How the Hell did Dirk have weaker defensive supporting casts in Minnesota??, and are you even trying to argue the Fact that KG was a Great Defender and Dirk was below Average? because its really not an argument, Now as far as this List you put up, I'm not even sure what You are trying to Display. I'll do my own research and Post Dallas Defensive rankings with Dirk and KG's teams Defensive Rankings.

Dirk took a team of:

Nash
Finley
Griffin
Dirk
LaFrentz

to a 9th place defensive rating ranking. To put that into perspective, KG has been better than 9th 1 time in his Minnesota career. You can't honestly tell me that team deserved to be ranked 9th in the league for defense if Nash and Dirk are as bad defensively as their reputation.

knicksosmoove · Post #20 » by **knicksosmoove** » Thu Jun 9, 2011 8:41 pm

As the great basketball philosopher Mark Jackson said, "good defense better offense." KG was never the type of player that would have entire defensive schemes built around him and still terrorize teams. Dirk is just such a rare, deadly threat as a scorer. Again, Kevin Garnett is an all-time great defender but it's not like he's single-handedly shutting down teams. The rarest talent in this league is elite scoring-- pretty much every team in the league doesn't have someone who can score like Dirk can in crunch time--but you don't need Kevin Garnett to be a good defensive or rebounding team.