RealGM Top 100 List -- 2011

[LoboGuerrero]

Agreed, I think Hakeem's mid-range shot was better than Duncan's.

[penbeast0]

That's a tough statement to back up; I'd think the opposite though Hakeem slides free for layups/dunks more than Duncan from what I've seen. Duncan's bread and butter is that mid-range bank shot.

I do agree the "Dream Shake" was pretty overrated, mainly because of its name and that series where he had David Robinson all turned around with it. It wasn't that high a percentage generally but was used to get him free against good defense.

[OldSchoolNBA]

Duncan and Hakeem are pretty easily separable. There is nothing Duncan did better than Hakeem, outside of having a slight rebounding advantage. But that's for the next thread.

i think Duncan has a better mid range shot that bank shot is money.

IMO it's the opposite. Hakeem is the most underrated big man jumpshooter. From what I've seen, his best shot not was the Dreamshake, it was his turnaround jumper.

Actually, Dream Shake wasn't a shot. It was the move that would free himself for either the jumphook or the baseline turnaround you are referring to. He would either fake left or go right or fake right and spin towards the lane for the hook. There is also another minsconception about the Dream Shake. That ball fake he used to do after a hard crossover dribble (like he did on Robinson, Kleine, Bradley, Carr etc) wasn't the dream shake.

[fatal9]

Yea, the Dream Shake is the fake left/fake right shimmy usually followed by a turn toward the middle of the floor for a jump hook. It was virtually unstoppable because he would set you up with the baseline fadeaway all game, and then counter with that (instead of turning baseline, he'd turn to middle). Then he had several counter moves for the dream shake/jump hook too if the defender began overplaying, one of the more common ones was this:



That's why his post game was so great, it was instinctive and always kept the defenders guessing, but at the same time he had several go to moves that simply couldn't be stopped.

[penbeast0]

Dang, how many times does he get to move his pivot foot in one bloody sequence? That's as bad as LeBron and the crab dribble.

[fatal9]

Dang, how many times does he get to move his pivot foot in one bloody sequence? That's as bad as LeBron and the crab dribble.

His left foot remains planted in that gif.

[penbeast0]

He makes two full spins on it and drags it about 4 feet

[Fencer reregistered]

He makes two full spins on it and drags it about 4 feet

After watching it a few times, I still think it's pretty clean. He pivots cleanly on the left foot, plants the right, hops on the right, but releases the shot before he lands again on his right foot.

[YouMustBeJoakim]

After watching it a few times, I still think it's pretty clean. He pivots cleanly on the left foot, plants the right, hops on the right, but releases the shot before he lands again on his right foot.

100% agree

[Fencer reregistered]

4 LA Lakers in the top 7 -- that team sure has enjoyed a lot of great players!

And that's even without Kobe, who some think should be that high.

[penbeast0]

Has Kobe gotten any votes other than Unbiased? Not sure one counts as some . . . but yeah, looking at 5 of the top 10 if you count Wilt as a Laker. And all three of them forced their way out of smaller markets looking for the big money and bright lights, so basically they bought their way to greatness (other than Magic (luck) and, soon, Kobe and West). The Yankees of the NBA.

Does that make Boston the Dodgers of the NBA?

[JordansBulls]

4 LA Lakers in the top 7 -- that team sure has enjoyed a lot of great players!

And that's even without Kobe, who some think should be that high.

Yep, it is a winning organization. Not only that but they always have top 2-3 players in the league in every decade.

50's - Mikan (3 titles)
60's - West/Baylor (6 finals)
70's - West (1 title)/Kareem
80's - Magic/Kareem (5 titles)
90's - Magic (first two years), Shaq (last 3 years)
00's - Shaq (first year)/Shaq/Kobe next 2 years/Kobe last 2 years.

[Laimbeer]

Has Kobe gotten any votes other than Unbiased? Not sure one counts as some . . . but yeah, looking at 5 of the top 10 if you count Wilt as a Laker. And all three of them forced their way out of smaller markets looking for the big money and bright lights, so basically they bought their way to greatness (other than Magic (luck) and, soon, Kobe and West). The Yankees of the NBA.

Does that make Boston the Dodgers of the NBA?

Am I mistaken, or did Magic do some manuvering to help ensure he went to the Lakers?

[Baller 24]

Has Kobe gotten any votes other than Unbiased? Not sure one counts as some . . . but yeah, looking at 5 of the top 10 if you count Wilt as a Laker. And all three of them forced their way out of smaller markets looking for the big money and bright lights, so basically they bought their way to greatness (other than Magic (luck) and, soon, Kobe and West). The Yankees of the NBA.

Does that make Boston the Dodgers of the NBA?

Am I mistaken, or did Magic do some manuvering to help ensure he went to the Lakers?

Think the Jazz were the ones who screwed it up. Don't remember though, Bryant might've been the one who did some maneuvering.

[JordansBulls]

Has Kobe gotten any votes other than Unbiased? Not sure one counts as some . . . but yeah, looking at 5 of the top 10 if you count Wilt as a Laker. And all three of them forced their way out of smaller markets looking for the big money and bright lights, so basically they bought their way to greatness (other than Magic (luck) and, soon, Kobe and West). The Yankees of the NBA.

Does that make Boston the Dodgers of the NBA?

Am I mistaken, or did Magic do some manuvering to help ensure he went to the Lakers?

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-06-05/sports/sp-83_1_lakers

Magic Johnson would have returned to Michigan State rather than play for the Chicago Bulls.

"I'd have stayed in school," he said here Tuesday, standing alone outside Gate 3 1/2 of Chicago Stadium, the house that could have been his. "A coin toss changed the course of my whole life."

Johnson signed with the Lakers after his sophomore year of college and proceeded to win five championships. The Bulls picked second, took UCLA's David Greenwood and have won no championships.

"I wouldn't have played here," Johnson said on the eve of Game 2 of the NBA finals between his team and the team that could have been his. "The only reason I came out was to play with Kareem and the Lakers.

[Doctor MJ]

Has Kobe gotten any votes other than Unbiased? Not sure one counts as some . . . but yeah, looking at 5 of the top 10 if you count Wilt as a Laker. And all three of them forced their way out of smaller markets looking for the big money and bright lights, so basically they bought their way to greatness (other than Magic (luck) and, soon, Kobe and West). The Yankees of the NBA.

Does that make Boston the Dodgers of the NBA?

How about the Red Sox of the NBA?

Actually probably more like the Cardinals. St. Louis is the 2nd most successful franchise no?

[Doctor MJ]

Has Kobe gotten any votes other than Unbiased? Not sure one counts as some . . . but yeah, looking at 5 of the top 10 if you count Wilt as a Laker. And all three of them forced their way out of smaller markets looking for the big money and bright lights, so basically they bought their way to greatness (other than Magic (luck) and, soon, Kobe and West). The Yankees of the NBA.

Does that make Boston the Dodgers of the NBA?

Am I mistaken, or did Magic do some manuvering to help ensure he went to the Lakers?

Yup, Lakers management deserves a good deal of credit, but they didn't exactly do it against all odds.

Celtics are more like the Cardinals imho who have had success by simply being smarter than more appealing markets.

[Fencer reregistered]

I like the Celtics/Dodgers analogy -- great organizational continuity for decades (more recently screwed up, more's the pity), serious racial pioneering (not only did the Dodgers play Jackie Robinson, but a goodly number of early minority managers passed through the Dodgers organization, and they'd have had the first black manager themselves if Jim Gilliam hadn't died), etc. Besides, those two are my teams, although I've stopped following baseball the past two decades.

But also, frankly, I was wondering whether the results in the vote were influenced by the fact that there were 8 avowed Lakers fans in the vote, and only one Celtics guy.

[ElGee]

^^^Two Celtics guys.

[Fencer reregistered]

^^^Two Celtics guys.

Then I don't feel so alone!