RealGM Top 100 #5

[penbeast0]

RULES:
There will be a zero tolerance, one strike policy. If ANY poster is interrupting any of the threads in a negative way, OR causing any problems they're ability to vote will be taken away.

Criteria: Take into account both peak and career play, era dominance, impact on the game of basketball, and how well their style of play and skills would transcend onto different eras. To be more exact, how great they were at playing the game of basketball.

Voting Will End In 2 Days

Please vote and nominate

Newest addition:

Jerry West


* NBA Champion (1972)
* NBA Finals MVP (1969)
* 14× All-Star (1961-1974)
* NBA All-Star Game MVP (1972)
* 10× All-NBA First Team Selection (1962-1967, 1970-1973)
* 2× All-NBA Second Team Selection (1968-1969)
* 4X NBA All-Defense Team Selection (1970-1973)
* 1X NBA All-Defense Team Selection (1969)
* NCAA Final Four Most Valuable Player (1959)
* NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team


Karl Malone


# 2x NBA MVP (1997, 1999)
# 14x NBA All-Star (1970-1977, 1979-1989)
# 2x NBA All-Star Game MVP (1989, 1993)
# 11x All-NBA First Team Selection (1988-1999)
# 2x All-NBA Second Team Selection (1986-2000)
# 1x All-NBA Third Team Selectin (2001)
# 3x NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (1997-1999)
# 6x NBA All-Defensive Second Team Selection (1988)
# 1986 All-Rookie 1st Team
# Elected to the Basketball HOF in 2010 as a player

Moses Malone

* 1x NBA Champion 1983 Philadelphia 76ers (NBA)
* 3x MVP (1979, 1982, 1983)
* 12x NBA All-Star (1978-1989), 1x ABA All-Star (1975)
* 4x All-NBA First Team Selection (1979, 1982, 1983, 1985)
* 4x All-NBA Second Team Selection (1980, 1981, 1984, 1987)
* 1x NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (1983)
* 1x NBA All-Defensive 2nd Team Selection (1979)
* 1x NBA Finals MVP (1983)
* All Rookie Team (ABA 1975)
* Basketball HOF Player (2001)


Julius Erving

NBA Champion (1983)
2× ABA Champion (1974, 1976)
2× ABA Playoffs MVP (1974, 1976)
NBA Most Valuable Player (1981)
3× ABA Most Valuable Player (1974–1976)
11× NBA All-Star (1977–1987)
5× ABA All-Star (1972–1976)
2× NBA All-Star Game MVP (1977, 1983)
5× All-NBA First Team (1978, 1980–1983)
2× All-NBA Second Team (1977, 1984)
4× All-ABA First Team (1973–1976)
All-ABA Second Team (1972)
ABA All-Defensive First Team (1976)
ABA All-Rookie First Team (1972)
J. Walter Kennedy Citizenship Award (1983)
NBA 35th Anniversary Team
ABA All-Time Team
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team

Kobe Bryant

5× NBA Champion (2000, 2001, 2002, 2009, 2010)
2× NBA Finals MVP (2009–2010)
NBA Most Valuable Player (2008)
13× NBA All-Star (1998, 2000–2011)
2× NBA scoring champion (2006–2007)
9× All-NBA First Team (2002–2004, 2006–2011)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2000–2001)
2× All-NBA Third Team (1999, 2005)
9× All-Defensive First Team (2000, 2003–2004, 2006–2011)
2× All-Defensive Second Team (2001–2002)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (1997)
4× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2002, 2007, 2009, 2011)
NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion (1997)


Larry Bird

# 3x NBA Champion (1981, 1984, 1986)
# 3x NBA MVP (1984-1986)
# 12x All-Star (1980-1988, 1990-1992)
# 2x NBA Finals MVP (1984, 1986)
# 9x All-NBA First Team Selection (1980-1988)
# 1x All-NBA Second Team Selection (1990)
# 3x NBA All-Defensive Second Team Selection (1982-1984)
# 1980 NBA Rookie of the Year
# 1980 NBA All-Rookie Team
# 1x NBA All-Star Game MVP (1982)
# 3x NBA Three-Point Shootout winner (1986-1988)
# NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team

Shaquille O'Neal

*4-time NBA Champion
*2000 NBA MVP
*92-'93 NBA Rookie of the Year
*3-time NBA Finals MVP
*3-time All-Star MVP
*14-time All-Star
*7 time All NBA First Team
*2 time All NBA Second Team
*3 time All NBA Third Team
*3 time All NBA Second Defensive Team
* NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team

Tim Duncan

4× NBA Champion (1999, 2003, 2005, 2007)
3× NBA Finals MVP (1999, 2003, 2005)
2× NBA Most Valuable Player (2002–2003)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1998)
13× NBA All-Star (1998, 2000–2011)
9× All-NBA First Team (1998–2005, 2007)
3× All-NBA Second Team (2006, 2008–2009)
All-NBA Third Team (2010)
8× All-Defensive First Team (1999–2003, 2005, 2007–2008)
5× All-Defensive Second Team (1998, 2004, 2006, 2009–2010)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1998)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (2000)
Hakeem Olajuwon

* 2x NBA Champion (1994, 1995)
* 1x NBA MVP (1994)
* 12x All-Star (1985-1990, 1992-1997)
* 2x Finals MVP (1994-1995)
* 2x NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1993-1994)
* 6x All-NBA First Team Selection (1987-1989, 1993-1994, 1997)
* 3x All-NBA Second Team Selection (1986, 1990, 1996)
* 3x All-NBA Third Team Selection (1991, 1995, 1999)
* 5x NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (1987-1988, 1990, 1993-1994)
* 4x NBA All-Defensive Second Team Selection (1985, 1991, 1996-1997)
* 1985 NBA All-Rookie Team
* NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team

Wilt Chamberlain

* 2x NBA champion (1967, 1972)
* 4x NBA MVP (1960, 1966-1968)
* 13x NBA All-Star (1960-1969, 1971-1973)
* 1x NBA Finals MVP (1972)
* 7x All-NBA First Team Selection (1960-1962, 1964, 1966-1968)
* 3x All-NBA Second Team Selection (1963, 1965, 1972)
* 2x NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (1972-1973)
* 1960 NBA Rookie of the Year
* 1x NBA All-Star Game MVP (1960)
* NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
* NBA 35th Anniversary Team

[penbeast0]

Vote -- Wilt for all the reasons I voted him at #3

Nomination -- Getting tough, can see a case for Oscar, LeBron, Mikan, or Garnett here. I will tentatively throw a vote in for LeBron as the most dominant of the 4. Garnett just never peaked as high, Oscar has to get some negatives for the Royals poor defense and mediocre team results during his spectacular long tenure there, and Mikan was unable to adapt to changes in the league when they put in the 24 second clock. On the other hand, LeBron's career is shorter than Garnett's or Oscar's and he was less than GOAT in last year's playoffs with a great team around him so no one is perfect. I remain open to being convinced.

[Wavy Q]

I'm voting for Wilt as well, will edit my post later with my reasons.

Nominating Oscar Robertson.

[lorak]

vote: Bird

nomination: Robertson

Both as close as possible to Magic and West who were voted in previous thread.

[mysticbb]

Just my vote for now:

Vote: Larry Bird

Nomination: Kevin Garnett

[dan_atko97]

I'm not sure if im alowed to sort of just jim into this voting but anyways-

vote- Wilt.

nominate- Oscar Robertson

wasn't sure between LeBron and Robertson, but i went safe with the uncertainty in success for Lebron in the future.

[Gongxi]

I like this project because when the vote doesn't go my way, the next thread is real easy, regardless of my schedule.

Same as last time: Wilt, LeBron.

[Baller 24]

Duncan, Bird, Shaq, and Chamberlain are my choices here, I'll wait and read through the responses of what some others have to say, and make my pitch.

In terms of nomination, what's so great about Oscar Robertson (or even Jerry West for that matter) over Kevin Garnett? Is it his statistics? Both have had a three consecutive season stretch where they're elite, and missed the playoffs.

Garnett's a more all-around player, a competing peak, led his team to the championship as the clear cut best player on the Celtics (check MVP voting --- KG: 3rd, Pierce: 14th, KG: All-NBA First Team, Pierce: All-NBA Third Team). And one of the most dominant defenders of this decade, even till this day there is a significant drop-off in defense for the Celtics when he's on the floor and when he's not. He's also anchored a team that's considered statistically one of the best defensive teams of all-time.

Robertson was on a team that's considered one of the most dominant and underrated teams in history, but he is by no means the best player on the team at the time of his arrival on the '71 Bucks. Behind league MVP at the time Abdul-Jabbar, where Robertson was 5th in MVP voting, and on the All-NBA Second team.

[FJS]

Vote for Bird, one of the greatest peak ever

Nomination; Oscar Robertson

[Baller 24]

You can go as far as to state that both Robertson and West evidently and clearly don't have more dominant peaks than LeBron James, statistically there's absolutely no argument as LeBron's peak within the last three seasons is clearly on GOAT level where he's clearly been the best player in the world. What occasions has West risen to exactly? During his only championship run you can argue that he wasn't even the 3rd best player on this team (playoffs only), where his TS% has dipped by 10%+, clearly not due to any age factor, considering he was 2nd in MVP voting.

Anyways, my nominations are down to LeBron & Garnett. I've already made my case for how Robertson doesn't deserve to be higher than either, where he was getting elite accolades and recognition throughout his prime when he missed the playoffs on three consecutive occasions, simply because there was a significant talent disparity.

[Laimbeer]

Vote - Wilt - most dominant individual talent ever.

Mikan - probably greatest in every category of remaining players except translating to other eras.

[An Unbiased Fan]

For me, #5 is down to Wilt, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, and Bird.

Wilt:
I'm leaning somewhat towards Wilt. Hard to argue against a Top 3 volume scorer ever, and Top 5 rebounder ever. Also, it shouldn't be forgotten that Wilt won 7 All-NBA 1st teams over Mr. Russell, which does speak to how highly regarded he was in his era.

On the negative side, his playoff success is not that great for a potential #5. Amongst the Top 9 candidates left, his record is near the bottom. He's not Karl Malone bad in this regard, but he's still under-achieved. The great posts & insights throughout this project about Wilt, also give me pause.


Kobe:
Hard to argue agaisnt Bryant. He's kinda Mr. Everything when you look at criteria. Top 5 offensive player ever, Top 3 volume scorer ever, Top 7 perimeter defender ever, Top 5 2-way player ever, Top 3 skillset ever. His playoff success dwarfs the other nominees at this point. Looking at his resume, accolades, and individual stats, he's right there in the mix.

The one knock that you can throw, is that Kobe doesn't have a Top 5 peak ever. In fact, in the current group, Shaq & Bird's peaks are higher. However, it should also be noted that Bryant still has a Top 10 peak ever, and Top 5 longevity ever. So I guess it's a matter of criteria.


Duncan:
If Kobe is Mr. Everything, then TD is Mr. Consistentcy. His accoaldes, and individual stats are steady throughout his career, and he's also a fantastic 2-way player. Among bigmen, his skillset is arguably the GOAt(if you don't consider Bird a big). He's also a Top 3 defensive anchor ever, and led his team to a Top 3 DRtg every year of his career, but the last one.

Even with all of this, I still have a hard time comapring TD to both Kobe & Shaq. Kobe had better playoff success, and playing in the same conference, had bested TD in both WCF titles, rings, and in head to head matchups. TD however, has been the better regualr season performer which is reflected in his MVP share advantage. With Shaq, it's really a battle between peak, and 2-way ability. Shaq in his peak was better than TD, but that peak only lasted 3 years, and for most of the other 9-10 seasons, TD had the bigger 2-way impact.


Shaq:
Like Wilt, Shaq should have been a GOAT candidate, but focus and work ethic ended that notion. Even still, Shaq had tremendous longevity. His peak is arguably the GOAT, though I do always point out that he beniftted greatly during that 3 year span, because the center postion was really weak. He led the league in FG% countless times, and was the msot domiannt low-post threat ever, hands down.

But....it's hard for me to forgive a bigman who didn't put up consistent effort on the defensive end. For a guy with all his tools, and massive size advantage, Shaq never led the league in rebounds, never led in blocks, and most perplexing, never made All-D 1st team. I mean look at Dwight Howard in just the last 3 years. Shaq SHOULD have been doing that too, he had the talent. Also, It's hard for me to rank Shaq over Kobe, with Kobe having the greater success & equal accoaldes. Think about this....Kobe's individual, & playoff success without Shaq, is better than Shaq's without Kobe. THis is kindof amazing when you consider that Shaq had Penny & Wade for 6 years, while Bryant has had Gasol for only 4.


Bird:
Boy how times have changed. Like some have pointed out, Magic & Bird have always been closely paired. But.....that was int he 80's, and this is now. Over the alst 2 decades, I feel Kobe, Shaq, and TD have surpassed Larry Legend. Bird's skillset is still arguably GOAT. He's a Top 5 offensive player ever, Top 3 all-around player ever, Top 3 shooter ever, and like Duncan, led his teams consistenly to great regular season records.

Playoff-wise, Bird fell a little short, IMO. Sure, his playoff record is 2nd only to Bryant's among the current group at 74.2%. But, with HCA, he's actually on the bottom half. This tells me that Bird had great regualr season teams who under-performed in the playoffs. His team of HOFers lost 7 times with HCA, and agaisnt elite team(+4 SRS), the Celtics were barely over .500, even with HCA. With all the players being so close, Bird is probably last amongst this group.

[Dr Positivity]

I voted Tim Duncan last thread. I notice the main reason he's not being considered vs Magic/Bird/Shaq is he "wasn't dominant enough". Well how do you define dominant? Is it guaranteeing 57 Ws+ every year like Magic and Bird? Is being good enough for your team to win 4 titles purely as the man, which only Russell and Jordan can also say + 3 in 5 years and a hair in the two losses, - with Manu Ginobili as your all time best teammate. Is it putting in one of the all around most impressive seasons ever in 03, peaking statistically while taking an underrated but comparatively weak in talent supporting cast to the title, and dropping an outstanding playoffs/Finals and all-time close-out game? If Duncan wasn't dominant enough for top 5 consideration, then neither was Bill Russell. Not saying I'm not good with a Bird vote here, but it's insanely close for me. The impact of these 3 guys and their success as a result looks very similar to me

I didn't address Duncan vs Bird last time because Magic was already ahead of Bird.

Peak: Bird by reputation at the time, but hard to take anything off of 02, 03ish Duncan, how much more impact could a player have. Slight edge to Bird

Longevity: Duncan lasts 1 more prime year. Lasting a little longer ends up having a big impact because Duncan gets a title his last elite year (in fact their career matches up extremely similarly. 99 = 81, sophmore year with cast that would be different than his peak ones. Duncan wins 3 with Parker/Gino including 1 with very early versions of them, Bird 2 but makes 4 Finals and loses to a tougher team, with McHale/Parish.)

Playoff record: Duncan a little more consistent, Bird has his high moments but so does Duncan. Wish we had 80s playoff boxscores

Leadership/intangibles/etc.: Tie

I'm going to give Duncan the tiebreaker for that 1 extra prime season which got him 1 extra title. Bird being around for 89 would've been huge for his career, remember Magic plays 1 G in the Finals so it's an easier road than usual + he'd have had Reggie Lewis to help him. Likewise take 1 off for Duncan and it hurts a ton. Can very easily make the case Duncan got 4 to Bird's 3 because of the extra year. You could also look at their records and say, well Duncan's team in 03 was like Bird's in 82 or 83 with an infancy stage McHale/Parish and Parker/Manu combo, except Duncan got a title there and boosted his back end and then 05/07 = 84/86 and Bird got swept by the Bucks. Either way it looks pretty good for Duncan.

So like Magic vs Duncan, Duncan gets an edge for a little more playoffs consistency, and like Magic vs Bird, Duncan gets an edge over Bird for a little more longevity, and overall a little more success. Vote Tim Duncan

West was great in the playoffs/Finals much more often than Lebron has been. More importantly, he was aggresive and put it all on the floor. I can't put LBJ over him and Oscar with what he did the last two years. The man choked twice. Maybe it's because it's fresh in my mind, but I'd put the last two years up there with any choke in NBA history. I was that bewildered by Lebron. There's a big difference between Larry Bird and Jerry West putting up 40-45% shooting in a Finals or playoff game and what Lebron just did, for me

EDIT - Nominate Kevin Garnett. After looking it over I realized his career arc was very similar to Oscar's, except KG was more succesful at every stage of the Royals/TWolves runs, then won the title playing a more impressive role than Oscar's Bucks one, albeit he was underrated there. Moreso, if KG needs a tiebreaker, it's that he's a better leader and team guy, Oscar has admitted his teams didn't have good chemistry and Jerry Lucas wanted more shots that he wouldn't give them and etc. Oscar at times seems a bit full of himself like Kobe.

[ElGee]

Separating Magic Johnson and Larry Bird is not easy. viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1124374&start=75#p28541450

As others have echoed, I really have no idea why people consider Magic much better than Bird...well, no I have an idea. Bird was goofy and white and unathletic. I see about as much misinformation about him as anyone on realgm.

The argument for Bird is basically from the last thread. Which begs the question, are any of the other bigs we're going to run into so close to Magic and Larry that they could wedge in between them? No, not for me. Those 4 go next in a close group.

Why Wilt and West but not KG and Bird?

Given that it's basically the same ballot for the same reasons as the last thread, I'd like to point out something that is confusing me:

There is no correct criteria here. But I do think people's choices should *reflect* their own criteria, and sometimes that's tricky because it's difficult to remove old impressions of guys. I'm seeing this with these 4 players.

One common argument for Wilt was essentially peak. Moreso than maybe the same voters were giving others credit for. No one could really refute many of the career arguments against Wilt, so they just banked on his best Philly years. Some voters are going to lean that way (eg LBJ will high too). Others, however, then nominate a guy like Jerry West, who quite clearly isn't a member of the Peak Club Elite.

So here's my confusion: Jerry West was injured throughout his career. Sometimes, he missed the playoffs, as in 1967 AND 1971. In 1968, he missed 31 games. He was a train wreck in the 1972 title run and in 1973, had a hamstring injury in the Finals (a small issue IMO, but noteworthy for someone constantly injured). Assuming you aren't under the impression that West's early seasons were excellent years, that gives him SIX elite years and 11 healthy years (missed large chunks of time in 2 of those).

But Bird often seems dinged for his body breaking down. Even if we don't count his last seasons, he quite clearly provides NINE healthy, elite years to start his career, with a peak that can rival anyone. Is Wilt Chamberlain's peak ahead of Bird's? It's a fair stance, sure. I don't see how any of the remaining bigs can make the same claim (the arguable one is Shaq).

But if it's a peak thing, then why would Jerry West rank ahead of Kevin Garnett??

KG clearly has a better peak. I have it as one of the 12 best peaks ever. I'm wondering what the dispute against it would even be.

So it seems inconsistent that someone would go Wilt-West (Wilt for peak) over Bird-KG when KG's peak edge over West is larger than Wilt's over Bird's (and there is the similarity that both Wilt and KG are bigs). Not to mention the injury issue with West gives Garnett just about the same number of elite seasons and healthy years, with a better peak!

Vote: Larry Bird
Nominate: Kevin Garnett

[Dr Positivity]

You can go as far as to state that both Robertson and West evidently and clearly don't have more dominant peaks than LeBron James, statistically there's absolutely no argument as LeBron's peak within the last three seasons is clearly on GOAT level where he's clearly been the best player in the world. What occasions has West risen to exactly? During his only championship run you can argue that he wasn't even the 3rd best player on this team (playoffs only), where his TS% has dipped by 10%+, clearly not due to any age factor, considering he was 2nd in MVP voting.

Anyways, my nominations are down to LeBron & Garnett. I've already made my case for how Robertson doesn't deserve to be higher than either, where he was getting elite accolades and recognition throughout his prime when he missed the playoffs on three consecutive occasions, simply because there was a significant talent disparity.

... in the regular season

He's had two years in a row where he's played like he had money on the other team with the season on the line. I'll consider him after KG and Oscar, but those two had way too good of careers for me to go LBJ over them, with what he just did. LBJ is David Robinson+ for me as of now (07 and 09 were better than anything DRob did to his credit)

[JordansBulls]

This is where it gets tricky because you can make a case for anyone know with Bird, Shaq, Wilt, Kobe, Hakeem, Duncan depending on what you value.

Wilt was the most dominant, but then again when he won he had to leave his team in order to do so and had to adjust his game in order to win.
Bird came into a team that the year before wasn't that great, but still he went to a winning franchise that had just won 2 titles in the prior 6 years before he arrived.
Shaq turned Orlando into contenders and then jumped shipped to a winning organization in LA.
Duncan was able to finally put the Spurs over the top but then again he didn't really inherit a terrible team. Sure recordwise he did but that was due to Robinson being out all year the season before. Would have been intestering had a gone somewhere else with no star from the get go.
Hakeem came to the Rockets a team that had the #1 pick th year before and immediately played with a star player for 4 years before that player got injured.
And Kobe went to LA where he was with Shaq who was a top 4 player in the league at the time.

I'm not really sure who to go with right now, but putting together how each won as the man, it is very interesting.

Thus far the top 4 all time that we have voted each of them have at least 3 MVP's.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... areer.html

Here are the MVP shares of these guys.


3. Larry Bird* 5.693
6. Shaquille O'Neal 4.380
8. Wilt Chamberlain* 4.269
9. Tim Duncan 4.205
10. Kobe Bryant 3.763
16. Hakeem Olajuwon* 2.611


Bird has the highest MVP shares here and he finished top 2 on 7x times and top 3 on 8x times.
That's significant because only MJ and Kareem and Russell are tied or ahead of him in finishing that many times in the top 2 and 3 in MVP voting.


Bird 24-7 in series with HCA (has the most losses with HCA but interesting tidbit is 0-3 without it.)
Hakeem 9-2 in series with HCA
Wilt 13-5 in series with HCA
Duncan 21-5 in Series with HCA
Shaq 24-5 in Series with HCA
Kobe 24-2 in series with HCA


Edit:

Vote: Shaq
Nominate: George Mikan

[Baller 24]

... in the regular season

He's had two years in a row where he's played like he had money on the other team with the season on the line. I'll consider him after KG and Oscar, but those two had way too good of careers for me to go LBJ over them, with what he just did. LBJ is David Robinson+ for me as of now (07 and 09 were better than anything DRob did to his credit)

Garnett is my choice, I was just making cases for LeBron over Robertson and West. Why Robertson over Garnett? I've pretty much made myself clear earlier about Garnett's case over either.

[Fencer reregistered]

Some comments on previous posts, etc.:

Bird legendarily led some of the most intense practices ever. Multiple guys have said practices were at least as intense as games. Bird dove for loose balls at practices, etc. -- so yeah, he led this.

Celtics losing some playofff series they "should" have won -- um, McHale's injury comes to mind. So do bodies generally wearing out by the end of the season.

Re Shaq's years w/ Wade and Penny -- Wade was hurt for one of them, no? I forget how Penny's health was before Shaq left.

As I said before, Shaq got dumped from three different teams, as well as leaving a couple of others under more neutral circumstances. Wilt got dumped from one team, as well as forcing his way to another one more excusably.

[Fencer reregistered]

Anyhow, my vote is Bird, for reasons others have stated.

My nominee is definitely a perimeter player -- not enough on the list. I'll go with Robertson over James or Pippen; if West is on the nominee list, Robertson might as well be there too. And James has ended his last two post-seasons really badly.

[TMACFORMVP]

I agree with Baller (though the notion that he missed the playoffs three consecutive seasons during his prime would also apply to Garnett), LeBron has a legitimate case to be ranked higher than Oscar.

Oscar was one of the best all round players to have ever played - obviously, but can we really say that he's that much better than LeBron in that regard? Bron's an exceptional rebounder (adjusted for pace, I think it'd be clear LeBron would have been well over double digits in rebounds in the 60's). Oscar would still be the better passer, because assists would translate roughly the same (harder to get assists, but the # of possessions would nearly make up that gap), but LeBron is probably the best play-maker from the wing position the game has ever seen (not the best passer however, that honor I believe still belongs to Bird). Defensively, LeBron is currently one of the best perimeter defenders in the game, where we get the reputation that Oscar was merely an average defender. I think what Bron has done leading the Cavs to the best record for two consecutive seasons, and an NBA Finals birth is slightly more impressive than what Oscar was able to accomplish during his prime. We can point towards LeBron's failures (and we have, otherwise he'd be much higher on this list), but Oscar doesn't really hit a homerun in the same categories LeBron is lacking from his resume. 

I think the only real argument against Bron would be the longevity factor - but LeBron for his career already has six seasons with Top 5 finishes in MVP voting, and another finishing #6. He has one more MVP already - compared to Oscar who has only three more seasons with Top 5 MVP finishes, just two more if we count the ever so close #6 place finish. I think when we're talking 7 to 10-11 seasons, is that enough to outweigh being a better defender, a comparable all round player, and a arguable more devastating scoring force? I do understand the arguments against it though, if they were similar in their peak, then Oscar has more of those years, and a championship a couple years removed after his prime. But I'm not sold if they are entirely comparable in terms of peak play in the sense that LeBron would have the decided edge in that area.