RealGM Top 100 List #7

[penbeast0]

b]RULES:[/b]
There will be a zero tolerance, one strike policy. If ANY poster is interrupting any of the threads in a negative way, OR causing any problems they're ability to vote will be taken away.

Criteria: Take into account both peak and career play, era dominance, impact on the game of basketball, and how well their style of play and skills would transcend onto different eras. To be more exact, how great they were at playing the game of basketball.

Voting Will End In 2 Days

Please vote and nominate

Newest addition:

Kevin Garnett

# NBA Champion (2009)
# NBA MVP (2004)
# 4x All-NBA First Team Selection (2000,2003-2004, 2008)
# 3x All-NBA Second Team Selection (2001-2002, 2005)
# 2x All-NBA Third Team Selection (1999, 2007)
# NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2008)
# 9x NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (2000-2005, 2008-2009, 2011)
# 2x NBA All-Defensive Second Team Selection (2006-2007)
# 14x All-Star
# NBA All-Star Game MVP (2004)

Oscar Robertson

* NBA Champion (1971)
* NBA MVP (1964)
* NBA Rookie of the Year (1961)
* 3x NBA All-Star Game MVP (1961, 1964, 1969)
* 9× All-NBA First Team Selection (1961-1969)
* 2× All-NBA Second Team Selection (1970-1971)
* 12× All-Star (1961-1972)
* Voted to the HOF in 1980
* NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team


Jerry West


* NBA Champion (1972)
* NBA Finals MVP (1969)
* 14× All-Star (1961-1974)
* NBA All-Star Game MVP (1972)
* 10× All-NBA First Team Selection (1962-1967, 1970-1973)
* 2× All-NBA Second Team Selection (1968-1969)
* 4X NBA All-Defense Team Selection (1970-1973)
* 1X NBA All-Defense Team Selection (1969)
* Voted to the Hall of Fame in 1980
* NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team

Karl Malone


# 2x NBA MVP (1997, 1999)
# 14x NBA All-Star (1970-1977, 1979-1989)
# 2x NBA All-Star Game MVP (1989, 1993)
# 11x All-NBA First Team Selection (1988-1999)
# 2x All-NBA Second Team Selection (1986-2000)
# 1x All-NBA Third Team Selectin (2001)
# 3x NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (1997-1999)
# 6x NBA All-Defensive Second Team Selection (1988)
# 1986 All-Rookie 1st Team
# Elected to the Basketball HOF in 2010 as a player

Moses Malone

* 1x NBA Champion 1983 Philadelphia 76ers (NBA)
* 3x MVP (1979, 1982, 1983)
* 12x NBA All-Star (1978-1989), 1x ABA All-Star (1975)
* 4x All-NBA First Team Selection (1979, 1982, 1983, 1985)
* 4x All-NBA Second Team Selection (1980, 1981, 1984, 1987)
* 1x NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (1983)
* 1x NBA All-Defensive 2nd Team Selection (1979)
* 1x NBA Finals MVP (1983)
* All Rookie Team (ABA 1975)
* Basketball HOF Player (2001)


Julius Erving

NBA Champion (1983)
2× ABA Champion (1974, 1976)
2× ABA Playoffs MVP (1974, 1976)
NBA Most Valuable Player (1981)
3× ABA Most Valuable Player (1974–1976)
11× NBA All-Star (1977–1987)
5× ABA All-Star (1972–1976)
2× NBA All-Star Game MVP (1977, 1983)
5× All-NBA First Team (1978, 1980–1983)
2× All-NBA Second Team (1977, 1984)
4× All-ABA First Team (1973–1976)
All-ABA Second Team (1972)
ABA All-Defensive First Team (1976)
ABA All-Rookie First Team (1972)
J. Walter Kennedy Citizenship Award (1983)
NBA 35th Anniversary Team
ABA All-Time Team
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team

Kobe Bryant

5× NBA Champion (2000, 2001, 2002, 2009, 2010)
2× NBA Finals MVP (2009–2010)
NBA Most Valuable Player (2008)
13× NBA All-Star (1998, 2000–2011)
2× NBA scoring champion (2006–2007)
9× All-NBA First Team (2002–2004, 2006–2011)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2000–2001)
2× All-NBA Third Team (1999, 2005)
9× All-Defensive First Team (2000, 2003–2004, 2006–2011)
2× All-Defensive Second Team (2001–2002)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (1997)
4× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2002, 2007, 2009, 2011)

Hakeem Olajuwon

* 2x NBA Champion (1994, 1995)
* 1x NBA MVP (1994)
* 12x All-Star (1985-1990, 1992-1997)
* 2x Finals MVP (1994-1995)
* 2x NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1993-1994)
* 6x All-NBA First Team Selection (1987-1989, 1993-1994, 1997)
* 3x All-NBA Second Team Selection (1986, 1990, 1996)
* 3x All-NBA Third Team Selection (1991, 1995, 1999)
* 5x NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (1987-1988, 1990, 1993-1994)
* 4x NBA All-Defensive Second Team Selection (1985, 1991, 1996-1997)
* 1985 NBA All-Rookie Team
* NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team

Shaquille O'Neal

*4-time NBA Champion
*2000 NBA MVP
*92-'93 NBA Rookie of the Year
*3-time NBA Finals MVP
*3-time All-Star MVP
*14-time All-Star
*7 time All NBA First Team
*2 time All NBA Second Team
*3 time All NBA Third Team
*3 time All NBA Second Defensive Team
* NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team

Tim Duncan

4× NBA Champion (1999, 2003, 2005, 2007)
3× NBA Finals MVP (1999, 2003, 2005)
2× NBA Most Valuable Player (2002–2003)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1998)
13× NBA All-Star (1998, 2000–2011)
9× All-NBA First Team (1998–2005, 2007)
3× All-NBA Second Team (2006, 2008–2009)
All-NBA Third Team (2010)
8× All-Defensive First Team (1999–2003, 2005, 2007–2008)
5× All-Defensive Second Team (1998, 2004, 2006, 2009–2010)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1998)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (2000)

[ElGee]

Vote: Shaquille O'Neal
Nominate: LeBron James

I'll start to get into the cluster of 4 big men up for the next spots here if time permits later. (Wait, Wilt was already voted in?)

[penbeast0]

For me it comes down to Duncan or Shaq with Kobe as a serious contender as well. Shaq is the most dominant, Kobe has the most titles, but Duncan, to me, has done the most with the least and his defense and leadership are far superior to either of the other two. He is also far more consistent than Hakeem though Hakeem's two year peak is superior both offensively and defensively.

Vote: The Big Fundamental

Nominate: George Mikan
His downside is obvious; he played in the 40s/50s before the modern game and either aged rapidly or couldn't adapt his game to the 24 second clock when it came in. However, he was the dominant player of his era, winning multiple titles with a skilled inside game (for his era) and physical rebounding and defense. Adjust his numbers for pace and average tsp to 1988 and they are superior to Jordan's MVP season (though obviously that's far too simplistic; it's just to show how statistically dominant he was). Yes, he played against white guys, though every team had a player 6-9 or taller in the first year B-R.com has for him (and some were taller than he was); but you can't choose your competition, you can only dominate it.

HM: DRob, LeBron, Frazier

[Vinsanity420]

This vote is sort of up in the air for me - Shaq vs Hakeem mainly, with Duncan as an outside-looking-in contender.

Nomination I don't really know either - considering Lebron, Barkley, Dirk and Admiral. LeBron's prime (08-now) is by far the best of the group but I don't know if his career is already a lock for Top 20 as well... Gotta look into this some.

[Dr Positivity]

I wrote in the #4 thread

Shaq vs Duncan:

Regular season: Edge Duncan because of health

Longevity: Duncan loses a step after 10 years but has 3 more top 10 player seasons + decent supporting player after that. Shaq loses a step after 11 years but has 3 more top 10 player seasons + decent supporting player after that. Very minor edge to Shaq.

Playoff performances: Both great virtually all the time. Shaq has some really big highs like his 00-02 Finals but also some lows like G6 and G7 against Portland or getting exploited on the pick and roll numerous times. Duncan can do more when he's not scoring all the time, too - such as the 07 Finals where he probably should've been Finals MVP. Overall tie.

Leadership/Intangibles: Edge Duncan no question

Less important parts:

Versatility: Edge Duncan. He can play PF and C and won with two very different types of teams, playing beside another great C in Robinson and not great perimeter player and with great perimeter play in Manu/Parker and not another great big man. Can play the pnr/space the floor, dominate the post, play inside out, whatever you like according to the matchup. Shaq is Shaq. Nobody will guard him, he won't be a good pnr defender or hit FTs, he's the best inside out player ever. Ultimately, you look at the Magic failures and you have to think Duncan is a better fit because he could play d, do pnrs and be an overall intangibles guy while Penny went Lebron on the offense

Championship Value: Duncan 4, Shaq 3. Shaq 3peated, but overall went 3 for 5 in 99-03, the greatest window in his prime, while Duncan went 3 for 5 from 03-07, his greatest window. Also, 04 and 06 were a lot closer for Duncan than 99 and 03 were for Shaq. Overall, both guys kicked the **** out of a 5 year period, I can't give Shaq more credit for going LWWWL than Duncan's WLWLW. Duncan gets more credit for 99 than Shaq for 06. (not that title count is my biggest thing, though)

Overall: Duncan over Shaqtus

Vote: Tim Duncan

Will decide nomination later. I'll be a big pusher of Dirk over Barkley when their time comes. It feels weird making Dirk the #17 nominee though. Feels like I'm missing a few people or something

Edit - Alright I'll throw in my nomination for George Mikan. I'll have more apprenhension actually voting him in, but for nominations I'm fine giving him a bone here for what he did for his era when guys "only" as good as Dirk, Drob, Barkley, Pettit waiting in the wings - I think tier 1 ends after KG, or maybe after Mikan

[An Unbiased Fan]

Vote: Kobe

Nomination: Mikan

I have already said a lot about the 00's Trio. All 3 were amazing players, but I feel Kobe is the best of the group. He's a Top 5 offensive player ever, Top 3 scorer ever, Top 3 skillset ever, Top 10 perimeter defender ever, Top 5 playoff success ever, and so on. His PTS% is on par with the allitme great scorers, and his AST% numbers are on par with Bird's. So he was volume scoring at an all-time rate, and facilitating at an elite level..AND LA's primary defender.

Head to head, Kobe individually outperformed Duncan 4 out of 6 series. And his teams won 4-2. Kobe had been part of two seperate repaet champions, while also having a direct hand in preventing Duncan from repeating twice(04' & 08'). Kobe has 7 WCF Titles, to Duncan's 4.

Kobe also has a better playoff record than Shaq, and had more success without Shaq, than Shaq has had without Kobe. This is the case despite Shaq having Penny/Wade for 6 of those years, while Kobe had Gasol for 3 and a half.

Simply put, I feel Kobe is the better, more complete, and all-around player.

[Bucksfans1and2]

I wrote in the #4 thread

Shaq vs Duncan:

Regular season: Edge Duncan because of health

Longevity: Duncan loses a step after 10 years but has 3 more top 10 player seasons + decent supporting player after that. Shaq loses a step after 11 years but has 3 more top 10 player seasons + decent supporting player after that. Very minor edge to Shaq.

Playoff performances: Both great virtually all the time. Shaq has some really big highs like his 00-02 Finals but also some lows like G6 and G7 against Portland or getting exploited on the pick and roll numerous times. Duncan can do more when he's not scoring all the time, too - such as the 07 Finals where he probably should've been Finals MVP. Overall tie.

Leadership/Intangibles: Edge Duncan no question

Less important parts:

Versatility: Edge Duncan. He can play PF and C and won with two very different types of teams, playing beside another great C in Robinson and not great perimeter player and with great perimeter play in Manu/Parker and not another great big man. Can play the pnr/space the floor, dominate the post, play inside out, whatever you like according to the matchup. Shaq is Shaq. Nobody will guard him, he won't be a good pnr defender or hit FTs, he's the best inside out player ever. Ultimately, you look at the Magic failures and you have to think Duncan is a better fit because he could play d, do pnrs and be an overall intangibles guy while Penny went Lebron on the offense

Championship Value: Duncan 4, Shaq 3. Shaq 3peated, but overall went 3 for 5 in 99-03, the greatest window in his prime, while Duncan went 3 for 5 from 03-07, his greatest window. Also, 04 and 06 were a lot closer for Duncan than 99 and 03 were for Shaq. Overall, both guys kicked the **** out of a 5 year period, I can't give Shaq more credit for going LWWWL than Duncan's WLWLW. Duncan gets more credit for 99 than Shaq for 06. (not that title count is my biggest thing, though)

Overall: Duncan over Shaqtus

Vote: Tim Duncan

Will decide nomination later. I'll be a big pusher of Dirk over Barkley when their time comes. It feels weird making Dirk the #17 nominee though. Feels like I'm missing a few people or something

This except nominate Barkley over Dirk.

[ThaRegul8r]

Vote: Duncan
Concise and to the point, and easy for even the shortest of attention spans to follow.

[Fencer reregistered]

Player: Duncan, for lots of reasons previously stated.

Some of the Duncan over Bird arguments gave me pause the way the Shaq over Bird arguments really didn't. I'm still not ready to put Shaq or Kobe on, because of their squabbling with each other if for no other reason, and also because if they were both THAT good, why did they stop at 3 championships?

Nominee: Sure, I'll go with the Mikan flow. He's the most dominant player by far who hasn't been nominated yet.

[Fencer reregistered]

Some early thoughts on some of the upcoming candidates-to-become-candidates:

1. LBJ -- choker, quitter, doesn't have longevity yet. But the second-best passing forward ever, an unprecedented transition defender, and a clutch scorer at other times. If he had post scoring skills OR a reliable 3-point shot, he'd be deadlier yet, let alone both.

2. Wade -- mini-James, less durable, but mentally better.

3. Dirk -- like Bird, only with a lot less passing, less handle, less defense, less rebounding, and fewer intangibles.

4. Barkley -- another of those guys I'm going to mark down for being somewhat of a head case.

5. Pippen -- underrated, including by Bulls fans.

6. Havlicek -- 8 rings as that serious a contributor is a heck of a run. The last and best of the guys with legendary conditioning (ahead of Russell and Wilt, probably, because he ran around so much more). The period after "He shot badly when younger" was still pretty long. Like Pippen, not given a lot of MVP voting love in his day.

7. Nash -- only became a great player in the second half of his career, so hasn't quite had the longevity one would first think. And while he's a great distributor who anybody would want to play with, his locker-room intangibles probably weren't that great given the attitudes of Marion, Stoudamire, and Shaq. Of course, with that awful, awful ownership/management, bad attitudes are somewhat excusable.

8. Isiah -- best ever at the short range driving shot (scoop, floater, whatever) plus drive-and-dish. But what other skills were elite? Led a team with more talent than we perhaps now recall (Dumars, Rodman, Dantley, Laimbeer ...).

9. McHale -- like Bird, has a durability ding. But unarguably one of the top 5 post scorers ever (Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Hakeem), and I'd put him higher than that. Superb defender too. Awesome efficiency numbers -- and while he did have Bird passing to him, he didn't further benefit from having a real PG.

[fatal9]

Vote: Shaq (might change this for Hakeem)
Nominate: Barkley

[ThaRegul8r]

Vote: Shaq (might change this for Hakeem)
Nominate: Barkley

Nah, I can't get down with Shaq. I've read the arguments, but I just can't do it. As I've said, I don't have a set Top 10 and thus am open to arguments about the placing of certain players, but as I ponder it, I'm thinking of slotting Hakeem over Shaq. Hakeem doesn't have the lack of attention to defense that Shaq had, which is a prerequisite for a big man as far as I'm concerned, and he went through every single one of his top rivals at his position for his titles, while there weren't any great centers to challenge Shaq when he reached his peak. I think I'll outline a Hakeem over Shaq argument since my own Top 10 is still a work in progress.

[Shaqsquatch]

I strongly disagree with Dr Mufasa on a few points. He pointed out games 6 and 7 of the 2000 WCF as failures on Shaq's side. I'm not sure how one can watch those games and come to that conclusion. Bob Costas wondered several times aloud during the broadcast of how Jordan never faced anything like this. I have never before witnessed all 5 players on one team surround one player every time said player got the ball in his hands with such vigor. "And the Blazers hold another team meeting around Shaq" - Bob Costas. That fabled Blazer 4th quarter meltdown was all Shaq. Sabonis who was drawing Shaq out of the paint, fouls out, Shaq settles back into the paint because Sabonis replacements couldnt hit the 15 footer. All of a sudden no more easy baseline baskets for Bonzi Wells and company. Blazers cant adjust in time. The rest is history. BTW where was Duncan those playoffs?

Duncan had less help? A seven foot HOF defensive anchor with another seven foot HOF defensive anchor ten feet away on a defensive team- with a HOF defensive minded coach.

You pretty much called Shaqs 3 peat and Duncans win every other year gameplan a wash. I disagree, I choose the champion who sucessfully defended his title twice over the guy who could not evern sucessfully defend his title once.

[ThaRegul8r]

You pretty much called Shaqs 3 peat and Duncans win every other year gameplan a wash. I disagree, I choose the champion who sucessfully defended his title twice over the guy who could not evern sucessfully defend his title once.

Duncan brought his team four titles, Shaq brought his team three. If I own a team, I want to win titles. That's the point of playing. Duncan puts you in a better position to win a title year in and year out, whereas with Shaq, you have a certain period of time, and then he's out. And the parting will not be amicable.

[mysticbb]

Vote: Tim Duncan

Nomination: Dirk Nowitzki


Can't understand how people can have players already on their list which have 7 or less All-NBA seasons, when there are still players left in the pool with 10+ All-NBA seasons while having an MVP award. Having the higher peak will not overshadow the still remaining difference in years a player was producing.

[Shaqsquatch]

Vote: Shaq (might change this for Hakeem)
Nominate: Barkley

Nah, I can't get down with Shaq. I've read the arguments, but I just can't do it. As I've said, I don't have a set Top 10 and thus am open to arguments about the placing of certain players, but as I ponder it, I'm thinking of slotting Hakeem over Shaq. Hakeem doesn't have the lack of attention to defense that Shaq had, which is a prerequisite for a big man as far as I'm concerned, and he went through every single one of his top rivals at his position for his titles, while there weren't any great centers to challenge Shaq when he reached his peak. I think I'll outline a Hakeem over Shaq argument since my own Top 10 is still a work in progress.

Shaq's competition? Shaq has battled every NBA big of significance between the end of Kareem's era to Dwight Howard today. Think about that. From Parish to Yao, Webber to Daughtery, Lambier to Ben Wallace, Duncan to Barkley, D-Rob to Bosh, Ewing to Bynum. Malone to Perkins. Zo to both Gasols and everything in between. Several of those bigs he had to face at the same time. He beasted them all. Nuff said.

[Wavy Q]

Vote: Shaq

Nominate: LeBron

[fatal9]

Case for Hakeem from previous thread. Hasn't got the respect he deserves so far imo. Better all-around player than both Shaq/Duncan (Shaq/Duncan without their flaws = Hakeem), peaked higher than Duncan and arguably in the same tier as Shaq, better playoff performer individually than both of them to me. Didn't have the advantage of having great coaches like them (when he did, he delivered), didn't have half the talent Shaq played with (W-L record of their teams without them is very telling, much less the roster personnel), faced stiffer competition than them at not only his position but in the teams he beat/faced (that's one area where I lose respect for Duncan).

Re: Hakeem

His 80s career is a bit underrated. He didn't have the team game down like he did in the 90s, possibly because of how late he learned the game, but still, he was a monster.

'85 - improves lottery team to the playoffs, Rockets go from one of the worst defenses in the league to 4th best (though he was a lousy post defender early on in his career imo).

'86 - improves Rockets to 51 wins (would have been more if he didn't miss 14 games). The only time anyone took down the 80s Lakers in a 7 game series before they got to the finals. Averaged 31 ppg on 52 FG%, 58 TS% in that series, and lots of blocks and rebounds (missing some boxscores). Played well against what was probably the greatest team ever in the '86 Celtics while most of his team shrank particularly Sampson. The guy showed by just his second year he could take down all-time great teams, lead his team to the finals when given a proper cast.

'87 - The promising team around him begins to fall apart. Mitchell Wiggins and Lewis Lloyd got suspended for doing coke, Sampson played only half the season and was limited even when he was on the court. Sampson and him played for the first time in almost 3 months when the playoffs started. What he did in these playoffs was very underrated IMO, 29/11/3/4 on 66 TS% (!) over 10 games (in under 39 mpg). Upset the Blazers in the first round, only game they lost in that series was the one where he got in foul trouble and the Rockets got outscored 27-12 in the quarter. Then came the Sonics (who came off beating the 55 win Mavs team), he played/shot well in every game. His ONLY bad game was game 4 where he was limited to 27 minutes due to foul trouble. Ellis was on fire and then Chambers came on late, Rockets were outgunned. In the elimination game he had 49/26/5/6 on 19/33 shooting, including scoring 17 of the last 25 points for the Rockets.

'88 - He put up the highest PER ever in the playoffs albeit only over 4 games. I've only seen two games from the series, and can't begin to comment on how poorly the guards shot (Sleepy played well in game 2, that's it, his other three games were horrific). Hakeem put up 34/14, 41/26, 35/12 and in the elimination game 40/15 @ 57 FG% (64 TS%) for the series. These numbers are nuts. Lost to the same team that took LA to 7 games in the next round.

His career did hit bit of lull under Don Chaney, which IMO is the biggest reason his career didn't turn out even greater than it was. The chuckers on the team got too much control of the offense, ball ran through Hakeem way less until Rudy T came in and then we saw Hakeem's talent truly shine from '93-'97. His prime stretch from '93-'95 is one of the five greatest primes for me, comparable to just about anyone. Any time the playoffs rolled around, he almost always brought his A game.

In his prime he was literally the perfect player to build around. Monster defender who guaranteed you a top defense in the league, 30 points a night, great decision making and passing ability that the ENTIRE offense was built around (no one on Houston was good at creating their own shot, they depended so much Hakeem's presence), unstoppable one on one scoring against any one (most double teamed big I've seen after Shaq), high bball IQ and quick decision making (this is what made him go to the next level in '93, his decision making became amazing, most centers don't act quick enough), not a liability in crunch time like many other centers, ability to outplay anyone put in front of him and an absolute ASSASSIN in big games (MJ like nerves and killer instinct, the man would just not go away).

The reason why many people think so highly of him because at his peak, he left you nothing to criticize because he did everything, won every big game, performed HUGE on the biggest stage, faced stiff competition and outplayed everyone. Did it like MJ did from ’91-’93, played in a way that left no doubt in anyone's mind. Now people are acting like putting Hakeem in the highest of highest leagues is revisionist history or overrating him, but take a closer look, the man played THAT well.


- '93, is when he took his game to another level. Improves his passing game and decision making tremendously as the ball begins to run through him more and more (new coach). Averaged 26/13/4/4 on 53% in regular season. In the playoffs, after killing the Clippers (check out what he did against them in the do or die game 5, he was EVERYWHERE, put up 31/21/7/3/3). Averaged an amazing 26/14/5/5 in the playoffs. Was on course of taking down the much more talented Sonics team in game 7 (made many crucial clutch plays) before his team kind of got screwed at the end of the game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax9n6JJgq-E) with bad calls. He was second in MVP, above MJ, should have been MVP. Here's Hubie Brown talking about how MJ and Hakeem were playing above everyone else that season: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9-Y1fo-jJs (this is for people who think Hakeem wasn’t in the conversation as the best player in the league before ’94).

- '94 Hakeem averaged 27/12/4/4 on 53%, won MVP, DPOY, Finals MVP and led a pretty average (though built well around him) roster to 58 wins and a ring. Team was down 0-2 to the Suns, and the Rockets needed to win the next two on the road against them to even stay in the series, Hakeem goes out and averaged 27/14/7/6 on 60+% in those games. Ended his playoff run by outplaying Ewing by a large margin and willing Rockets to win the title with a great finals series (after they were down 3-2 as well).

- '95 Hakeem had the most impressive playoff run ever to me, yes, even more impressive than any of Jordan's runs because I don't know if even MJ could have pulled off what Hakeem did. He saved the Rockets over and over again (with assist from the role players of course). His team slipped in the seeding because they dropped a lot of games when he was injured which only made his competition in the playoffs that much tougher.

- First round, they had to beat a 60 win Malone/Stockton Jazz team (FIRST round). Hakeem averaged 35 ppg on 57% in that series, had a 40 point game to save the team from elimination, then in the do or die game he went on the road, began hitting impossible baseline fadeaways and willed them past the Jazz.

- Second round, he had to beat the 59 win KJ/Barkley Suns. Rockets went down 3-1, didn’t have HCA but Hakeem comes back and drops 30/12/6 in the final three games (two of them on the road), to lead them to the next round. And with the season on the line in game 5, it was him who made the clutch shot to send the game to OT.

- Next up, 62 win Spur team, with the MVP and Hakeem’s position rival, D-Rob. Needless to say, we all know what he did to D-Rob in that series, "bamboozled him", dropped three 40+ point games against the league MVP and DPOY, and a 39/17/5 game to eliminate the Spurs.

- In the finals, it was Shaq/Penny’s Magic team. Came up big when the games were on the line, I thought he outplayed Shaq in the crucial stretches of the games and led the sweep of the Magic.

That’s the highest combined W-L record any player has had to face on route to a championship and Hakeem took them down one after the other. He beat the four best teams in the league in the same playoff run. The margin of error was so low, he HAD to deliver in every series, could absolutely not have a bad game and he came through...every...single...time. Factoring in competition, the fact he put up 33/10/4.5/3/2 on 53%, clutchness, stepping up in key games, outplaying opponents, this to me is the greatest individual playoff run by a player ever. Not MJ, not KAJ, not Shaq, not Bird no one had to deliver like that to win a championship.

Those three years he faced elimination 10 times, and led the Rockets to a 9-1 record (Russell-esque) in those games and here is a sample of what he did in those games:

31/21/7/3/3
23/17/7/3
37/17/5/3
25/10/7/3
40/8/3
33/10/4
31/16/3
30/8/10/5
29/11/4

If you value primes and playoff performance highly (two most important things for me personally), he has a very good case for top 5. You need to watch him play, need to see the situations he confronted, how he played on a game by game basis, how immensely valuable he was to his teams (from '92-'96, Rockets were 7-27 without Hakeem, lottery status without him and perennial contenders with him...Shaq's teams were never this bad without him).

[lorak]

So sad, Hakeem didn't even got 1 vote so far
How is that possible when he was better than Shaq or Duncan (not to mention Kobe - what a homer vote AUF)

vote: Hakeem
nomination: Mikan

PS
fatal, after post like this above about Hakeem why you voted Shaq?

[TMACFORMVP]

Will put it early this time, wasn't able to vote for him last thread, but wouldn't have mattered in the end I suppose. I look at it like this; I love Hakeem, he was a dominant playoff performer and had one of the best peaks - EVER. But Shaq can also say these same things, ridiculous playoff and Finals performances; with a three year peak that one could argue was even better than Hakeem's, similar dominance, one MVP, but Shaq also got three championships, actual very good defense throughout this stretch (though not comparable with Hakeem, obviously), and similar to Hakeem, just bulldozed his way throughout the playoffs. Then, you look at the rest of their careers, and I'd have to say, I like what Shaq was able to accomplish over Hakeem. So a better prime, similar, if not slightly better peak, and more accolades, championships, etc. I understand the arguments that Hakeem was a better defender, and had less help than Shaq, but that could also be the case for Hakeem over Bird, Magic, or even Jordan.

Vote: Shaquille O'neal

Nomination has a slew of guys you could choose from, and each one having their own special case.

How is Barkley clearly ahead of Robinson? His prime is longer, but it's interesting to note that Barkley has nine Top 10 finishes in MVP voting, while Robinson equals that, including eight seasons in a row. Not to mention Robinson has five seasons finishing in the Top 5 of MVP voting compared to four for Barkley. Both of them have one MVP award. Barkley has only one more All-NBA season as well, but that's a bit flawed since Robinson continued to make All-NBA two seasons past his prime, but it's not completely out of question to make the claim that the difference in both their elite seasons in this league is minimal at worst.

Barkley is a markedly better playoff performer, and the more dominant offensive scorer (though it's Robinson with the scoring title and 25.0 PPG eight season average vs. Barkley's 25.2 PPG top eight scoring season average as well). Then we factor in that Robinson is a MUCH better defender, one of the greatest all time, while Barkley is below average in that regard, is Barkley's playoff edge that much more impressive that it puts Barkley over D-Rob? Even Barkley has had his choke job in the playoffs vs. Hakeem and the Rockets during that same stretch and his TS% for career drops as well by nearly 4% -- the same as Robinson in his career.

And I think we severely underrate the impact Robinson had on the Spurs first championship. Was he man? No. But he played in 49/50 games, averaged 16/10 in only 32 MPG (18/11 PER36). In the playoffs, he kept up his averages, and for advanced metric freaks, had a 23.3 PER, higher DRTG, TRB% and DWS than even Duncan. He shot poorly in the Finals (43%), but he still contributed with 12 rebounds, 3 blocks, a steal, and nearly 17 points. For how much we talked about how Garnett's defense and rebounding not declining in the playoffs, I think the same could be said for Robinson in the Spurs first title run. He also had some other huge games in that same playoff run:

17/18/7 with 3 blocks and 3 steals in the pivotal Game 3 versus Minnesota with the series tied 1-1. Not to mention 19/11 and 4 blocks to close that series as well. In the Lakers series, he was a huge reason Shaq was kept below his averages - 23.7 PPG on .492 shooting in a sweep. Had over 20/10 games in both Game 1 and 4 of the WCF against the Blazers completing another sweep. Then the already aforementioned Finals defensive impact.

Side note, I think Dirk could have an interesting case versus Barkley as well.

Anyways, with the way I'm leaning at the moment; could be subject to change

Nominate: David Robinson