RealGM Top 100 List #14

[penbeast0]

Baller asked if I could make the thread, so here it is.

RULES:
There will be a zero tolerance, one strike policy. If ANY poster is interrupting any of the threads in a negative way, OR causing any problems they're ability to vote will be taken away.

Criteria: Take into account both peak and career play, era dominance, impact on the game of basketball, and how well their style of play and skills would transcend onto different eras. To be more exact, how great they were at playing the game of basketball.

Voting Will End In 2 Days

Please vote and nominate

Newest addition:

Dwyane Wade

NBA Champion (2006)
7x NBA All-Star
2x All-NBA First Team
3 All-NBA Second Team
1x All-NBA Third Team
3x All-NBA Defensive Second Team
2010 All-Star Game MVP
2006 NBA Finals MVP

Bob Pettit

NBA Champion (1958)
2× NBA MVP (1956, 1959)
4× NBA All-Star Game MVP (1956, 1958–1959, 1962)
11× NBA All-Star (1955–1965)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1955)
10× All-NBA First Team (1955–1964)
All-NBA Second Team (1965)
2× NBA Scoring Champion (1957, 1959)
NBA 25th Anniversary Team
NBA 35th Anniversary Team
NBA 50th Anniversary All-Time Team

David Robinson

2× NBA Champion (1999,2003)
NBA MVP (1995)
4x All-NBA 1st Team
2x All-NBA 2nd Team
4x All-NBA 3rd Team
4x All-NBA 1st Team
NBA DPOY (1992)
4x NBA All-Defense 1st Team
4x NBA All-Defense 2nd Team
NBA ROY (1990)
10x All-Star

Dirk Nowitzki

# NBA MVP (2007)
# NBA Champion (2011)
# NBA Finals MVP (2011)
# 4x All-NBA 1st Team
# 5x All-NBA 2nd Team
# 2x All-NBA 3rd Team
# 10x NBA All-Star

Charles Barkley

# NBA MVP (1991)
# 5x 1st Team All-NBA
# 5x 2nd Team All-NBA
# 1x 3rd Team All-NBA
# 11 times All-Star
# All-Star MVP 1991
# Hall of Fame 2006

LeBron James

# 2x NBA MVP (2009-2010)
# 5x All-NBA First Team Selection (2006-2011)
# 2x All-NBA Second Team Selection (2005-2006)
# 3x NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (2009-2011)
# Rookie of the Year (2004)
# 7x All-Star
# 2xNBA All-Star Game MVP (2006, 2008)

Oscar Robertson

* NBA Champion (1971)
* NBA MVP (1964)
* NBA Rookie of the Year (1961)
* 3x NBA All-Star Game MVP (1961, 1964, 1969)
* 9× All-NBA First Team Selection (1961-1969)
* 2× All-NBA Second Team Selection (1970-1971)
* 12× All-Star (1961-1972)
* Voted to the HOF in 1980
* NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team

Jerry West

* NBA Champion (1972)
* NBA Finals MVP (1969)
* 14× All-Star (1961-1974)
* NBA All-Star Game MVP (1972)
* 10× All-NBA First Team Selection (1962-1967, 1970-1973)
* 2× All-NBA Second Team Selection (1968-1969)
* 4X NBA All-Defense Team Selection (1970-1973)
* 1X NBA All-Defense Team Selection (1969)
* Voted to the Hall of Fame in 1980
* NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team

Moses Malone

* 1x NBA Champion 1983 Philadelphia 76ers (NBA)
* 3x MVP (1979, 1982, 1983)
* 12x NBA All-Star (1978-1989), 1x ABA All-Star (1975)
* 4x All-NBA First Team Selection (1979, 1982, 1983, 1985)
* 4x All-NBA Second Team Selection (1980, 1981, 1984, 1987)
* 1x NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (1983)
* 1x NBA All-Defensive 2nd Team Selection (1979)
* 1x NBA Finals MVP (1983)
* All Rookie Team (ABA 1975)
* Basketball HOF Player (2001)

[penbeast0]

Doctor MJ left a list

His vote is Oscar Robertson

His nomination is Walt Frazier

[therealbig3]

My nomination comes down to Pippen or Baylor for me. I'm sure both of them will be discussed, so I'll wait and see what people have to say about them.

As for my vote,

Vote: Oscar Robertson

EDIT: Ignore this, my official vote and nomination is a couple of posts down.

[Dr Positivity]

Vote Jerry West. Him and KG were in a dead heat for the last spot for me. IMO West has been the best offensive player on the board since Kobe got voted in and is a pretty damn great defender. Mr. Clutch etc.

Nominate Rick Barry

I voted Ewing last time but since I was the only one I'll go with my pick of the players who got support. Good support was made for Barry last time, he's an elite offensive player who reached the top of the mountain and was robbed of an MVP cause he's a dick.

[penbeast0]

As for me, I have narrowed down my vote to Moses Malone or Jerry West. The point about West's injuries made last time is a good one, he had a style similar to a combination of Dwyane Wade/Kevin Martin and like both of today's slashers he got dinged up a lot. Still, I think you have to give some of the credit (for the great offense) and blame (for the weak defense) to the best player on the team and I still have West by a hair over Oscar. Relative to Moses, West was much more consistently a great scorer, Moses was only dominant for a relatively short stretch though he remained a rebounding force throughout his career. Subtract for Moses's weak passing and shotblocking, add credit for his longevity and work ethic (center on my all sweat team) . . . tough call and I'd change to Moses or even Oscar over the other candidates if it comes to a tie but I vote Jerry West here

As for the nomination, I still favor Artis Gilmore over Patrick Ewing by a little though Dwight Howard is intriguing and I'd like to see comparisom between the three of them by someone else. At forward, I have Baylor and Pippen easily over Barry (same efficiency and scoring as Baylor but crappy attitude and much weaker rebounding) or Havlicek (even for his day, much weaker efficiency and passing than Pippen with similar defense though Hondo's leadership and team ethic blows Pippen's away).

But my nomination goes to the best guard left which is Walt Frazier -- For his 8 year peak, he's a 20 point scorer with great efficiency, a good distributor though not in the Nash/Kidd class, was the real finals MVP on at least one and possibly both championship teams although the league gave it to Willis Reed. Check out the numbers if you didn't watch it, if you did remember Clyde's clutch offense and outstanding defense on Jerry West but Reed was the image the NBA wanted to present not the Superfly street image Clyde was known for. Nash can't compare defensively and his greater playmaking is countered by Frazier's greater scoring and performance on the game's highest stage and Isiah, while he can match the championships, can't match the scoring efficiency or defensive dominance.

VOTE: JERRY WEST

NOMINATE: WALT FRAZIER

[therealbig3]

Never mind what I posted before, this is my official vote and nomination, I forgot that Barry wasn't officially nominated in, since there was a tie.

Vote: Oscar Robertson
Nomination: Rick Barry

[ronnymac2]

Vote: Jerry West

Nominate: Rick Barry

Same reasons as last time...

[mysticbb]

Vote: Jerry West

Nomination: Elgin Baylor

[ronnymac2]

Penbeast- Why are you ignoring Rick Barry's passing/playmaking advantage over Baylor? What about the spacing he offers or the off-ball play? What about Barry's ability to relieve pressure on his team's primary ball handler by handling the ball in a creative way? Baylor's ball-handling was mainly used for attacking moves to the basket; Barry was more versatile in that aspect of the game.

[drza]

Vote: Oscar Robertson
Nominate: Scottie Pippen

Hope we get a full-out Oscar vs West battle in this thread, as it's a classic. After the RPoY project last year, despite West getting love from more posters, I found myself more secure that Oscar was the more impactful player of the two.

[penbeast0]

Because Baylor was a very good passer too averaging over 4 assists/game for his career. Barry was better but (a) the rebounding differential to me was much greater than the playmaking one and (b) Barry is such an absolute egotistical prick.

I am probably harsher on that than many having dealt with too many of them as a player, teacher, and coach. Though at the level I have played, they aren't nearly as bad as the lazy defenders -- which Barry was also bad about -- one reason I would vote Havlicek over him too. I just found that the Baylor comp was much more apples to apples (like Pippen v. Havlicek) and to me Baylor was clearly better.

[Gongxi]

Well, last time I did the Oscar/Moses/KG/West dance, so I guess this time I'll be weighing West/Oscar/Moses. Have to do that later. Pretty sure my nomination will remain Baylor, though.

[Fencer reregistered]

Who was nominated last time around? I'm guessing it's Havlicek, but I'm not seeing him listed at the start of the thread.

[DavidStern]

Vote Jerry West. Him and KG were in a dead heat for the last spot for me. IMO West has been the best offensive player on the board since Kobe got voted in and is a pretty damn great defender. Mr. Clutch etc.

No, he isn't nowhere near great defender and Oscar was easily better offensive player: viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1126742
In short: Robertson's impact was Magic like. West's a little bit below these kind of players.

I would really like if people who vote for West would back up their opinions by some data.

vote: Robertson
nomination: Barry

[ElGee]

Vote: LeBron James
Nominate: Steve Nash

I'm not entirely sure on this -- trying to expand my criteria and fluidity of my list as I get more comfortable with the project. That said, I could go Oscar or LeBron. I have LBJ 12th, but I don't really put too much stock into comparing current players with guys who have finished their careers. Give me 5 years and I'll feel really good about where LeBron sits. So for now, he gets the vote...and if I don't get back to this thread and it's a footrace between Oscar and someone, I'd switch my vote to Oscar.